Rapture timing

Biblewriter · Jun 9, 2016

If the Lord takes the believers to be with himself at the same time He comes to judge the world for its wickedness, who will be left in the earth to live in the millennium? For the righteous will be with the Lord, and the wicked will be killed. So who will be left?

greenguzzi · Jun 9, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

None of these people were effective at convincing the whole world to worship them except believers.

The "beast from the sea" is the 1st century Roman Empire. All who didn't follow Christ worshipped Nero.

Revelation served to reveal reality to its first readers, to give them the strength to continue with Christ despite what was going on around them - and to them. Revelation is not for us to argue about events that might or might not occur over 2000 years after it was written.

There is much for us to learn from Revelation, but it has nothing to do with timelines or future events.

greenguzzi · Jun 9, 2016

Biblewriter said:
If the Lord takes the believers to be with himself at the same time He comes to judge the world for its wickedness, who will be left in the earth to live in the millennium? For the righteous will be with the Lord, and the wicked will be killed. So who will be left?

No one, because there is no literal millennium.

AlasBabylon · Jun 9, 2016

Biblewriter said:
If the Lord takes the believers to be with himself at the same time He comes to judge the world for its wickedness, who will be left in the earth to live in the millennium? For the righteous will be with the Lord, and the wicked will be killed. So who will be left?

Read Revelation 21.

Christ returns to live with His people on the earth...
Christ's people live in God's Holy City, New Jerusalem
that God created and brought from heaven to earth.
The kings and people of the nations that are saved
come to the holy city, New Jerusalem... it is physical...
and on the earth.

.

AlasBabylon · Jun 9, 2016

greenguzzi said:
No one, because there is no literal millennium.

In my post, I am not referring to a 1000 year millennium...
I am referring to after the resurrection and translation...
I am referring to eternity... immortality is physical and
eternity's homebase, New Jerusalem, is on the earth.

.

tranquil · Jun 9, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
Those are two different women.

The woman that flees into the wilderness in Revelation 12 are most likely Jewish believers in Jesus. God is protecting them from being killed by the dragon. Personally, I think they are the 144,000 Israelite believers in Jesus who are sealed.

Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The other woman is an entirely different animal - she kills Christians.

Revelation 17:3-6
3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. 5 And on her forehead a name was written:
MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

Are they 2 different women? Yes and no. The woman is described as Rev 17:18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

1. All the bowls of wrath are applicable as soon as they are announced in the 6th Seal. Yes? Note what Rev 17:1 says:

Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”

Why doesn't it just come out and say, the 1st bowl of wrath angel punishes the evil woman? Because the wrath is upon different entities.

9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.

14 They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” 15 And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

What's going on here? 5 kings have past. One currently exists (#6) then comes #7, then #8. What's the woman? the city that rules over the kings of the earth.

The city that currently rules over the 6th king of the earth is the woman that is burned at the beginning of the wrath (the 6th Seal). The 10 horns hate the current 'city'/ woman and burn her. That is how they come to power. (Dan 9's 'the people of the prince to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary'). (the current 'city'/ woman is Rome/ Vatican. Maybe it symbolizes Christianity in general. Whatever it is, it splits into 3 entities.

Then there is another city that then rules the earth with the 7th king and 8th king. This city will kill the saints too (because we don't get whisked away, we get gathered together. When God says, 'come out of her my people', this is part of the 'rapture'/ 'come up here'/ gathering process.) Is God 'whisking' anyone away to heaven here? No.
Rev 18

4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,

“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
and repay her double for her deeds;
mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’
8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”

Remember that the coming of the lawless one is with all lying signs and wonders. How is this achieved?

23 and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints,
and of all who have been slain on earth.”

That sorcery (pharmakia/ drugs for sorcery probably hallucinogenic laced anti-radiation pills or a vaccine to make people think the world is under attack by demonic aliens) is the same as the frogs of the wrath in the 6th bowl of wrath, which comes at the 6th seal, because that is the wrath starting.

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

tranquil · Jun 9, 2016

Luke17:37 said:
I don't agree with you. You said it does say the sixth trumpet is 1260 days but where does it say that? It's not in the passage you wrote. Just because the two witnesses testify for 1260 days doesn't mean the sixth trumpet is that long. I think they start testifying in the middle of the Tribulation. I believe that the beast is the one who arrives in seal one but proclaims himself God halfway through and begins killing the Christians on account of their testimony and because they don't worship him and don't take the mark of the beast. My theory will be wrong if the first bowl (the sores on those with the mark) arrives too early, before the trumpets start. Unless that happens, I'm sticking with it. It makes sense to me.

Are you saying that the 6th trumpet is not the 2nd woe? the 2nd woe is 1260 days, at least.

The mark of the beast is not offered until after Babylon has fallen:
Rev 14

6 Then I saw another angel flying directly overhead, with an eternal gospel to proclaim to those who dwell on earth, to every nation and tribe and language and people. 7 And he said with a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come, and worship him who made heaven and earth, the sea and the springs of water.”

8 Another angel, a second, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who made all nations drink the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality.”

9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”

When the city that rules the 6th king falls, at the 6th Seal, then the mark can be offered. Because the faithful will 'come out of her, my people' they go into the wilderness and are gathered by the messengers/ angels.

Also note that the 2nd bowl of wrath states that 'the souls of the living things that were in the sea died'. Revelation 16:3 The interlinear translation doesn't say that everyone in the sea dies (all the citizens within the 'beast from the sea' civilizations). So, as soon as they take the mark, their soul has died. In the 1st bowl, it says that they receive a sore (from getting their mark - microchip implant ).

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

vinsight4u · Jun 9, 2016

greenguzzi · Jun 9, 2016

AlasBabylon said:
In my post, I am not referring to a 1000 year millennium...

I know, I was addressing Biblewriter's post.
I have no beef with what you are saying. It's not exactly the same as what I'm saying, but close enough for me.

Luke17:37 · Jun 9, 2016

Biblewriter said:
If the Lord takes the believers to be with himself at the same time He comes to judge the world for its wickedness, who will be left in the earth to live in the millennium? For the righteous will be with the Lord, and the wicked will be killed. So who will be left?

Not everyone will be killed. Minimally, the great army assembled at Armageddon (see sixth bowl, Revelation 16:14, 16) on the face of the land of Israel, they will be killed. It says so when you look at Revelation 19:19 and 19:21. It also says in Isaiah 27:12 that the promised land of Israel (between the wadi of Egypt and the Euphrates River) will be threshed and the Israelites will be gathered one by one. In Zechariah 14:12-15, it describes in vivid detail the plague that comes on those who are gathered to battle against Jerusalem.

The latter part of Zechariah 14 (14:16-19) specifically indicates that there will be survivors in the nations and that they will be required to come to Jerusalem every year to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. Whichever country does not go up will not get rain the next year. Egypt is specifically mentioned as one of the countries that will not go up (at least once).

The believers meet Jesus in the air and get their glorified bodies, but since they will always be with Lord forever after that (1 Thessalonians 4:17), they'd come back down to earth with Him. Revelation 20:4-6 says they come to life and reign with Christ for a thousand years. Specifically those mentioned in Revelation were beheaded in the Tribulation and raised in the first resurrection and reign with Christ a thousand years. Perhaps they have better positions in Jesus' kingdom than people who don't get beheaded, I don't know, nevertheless, they should be on the earth with Jesus. In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17, we read that the resurrection and is not just for the beheaded, it's for all the dead in Christ, and the gathering is for all the surviving elect.

pat34lee · Jun 10, 2016

Biblewriter said:
When, or shortly before, (depending on who has correctly interpreted the scriptures) the Lord returns, the church will be taken out of this world,

Let's deal with this part. Why would God take out as you put it,
part of the body of Christ? I hope you arent under the delusion
that they are perfected already. That does not happen for anyone
until after he comes and they receive new flesh (born again).

Another problem. Why do you think he would want to kill every
Christian at one time, as that is what rapture boils down to? To
save them? Hardly. He saved Noah without killing him. Moses
and the Israelites, Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo.

Jesus promised peace inside, but turmoil and hatred from those
around us. Following him as he lived is a guarantee that we will
be persecuted, even to death.

"As he lived" is the important part that most seem to refuse to
understand today. That is why Matthew 7:21-23 is so important.

pat34lee · Jun 10, 2016

Biblewriter said:
If the Lord takes the believers to be with himself at the same time He comes to judge the world for its wickedness, who will be left in the earth to live in the millennium? For the righteous will be with the Lord, and the wicked will be killed. So who will be left?

All of the wicked are not killed until the battle at the
end of the millennium. At that time, the earth and the
heavens will also be destroyed and replaced.

Rapture timing

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