Rapture Timing Study

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH

Simon Greenleaf... many of you will be familliar with this name. One whom helped to found Harvard, considered by many the greatest legal expert concerning admissable testimony, that has ever lived. He sought out the evidence on a dare as an athiestic agnostic, but after seeking our the evidence, he became a christian

What would Simon Greenleaf come up with if he were to investigate the "Rapture"?



Will there be a rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ?


Most assuredly the scripture indeed guarantees a day when ALL that are in the graves will hear His voice. We are assured that there is coming a day when the dead in Christ rise first, and that then those who are alive and remain will be changed in a moment, In the twinkling of and eye. We are told that we shall meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord. To deny these things is to deny the scripture and say it isn't so.




The question of "when"?


There are several different viewpoints on the "when" concerning the rapture.


1. The Pre-tribulation rapture
This view states that we will be raptured BEFORE what is commonly called the 7-year tribulation.


2. The Mid-tribulation rapture
This view states that the rapture will take place in the exact or near exact middle of the tribulation.


3. The Pre-wrath rapture
This view states that the rapture will be in the 2nd half of the tribulation period, but that it is also before the wrath of God is poured out.


4. The End-tribulation rapture
This View holds that the rapture will be VERY near the end of the tribulation, likely within the last 45 days of it. This timing uses the timetables found in Daniel 8:13-14, and Daniel 12:11-12.


5. The Post-tribulation rapture
Those holding this view believe there is a rapture, but that it occurs at the exact end of the tribulation period.


6. No rapture at all
Obviously a view that denies scripture plainly and outright which we wont even consider.




So Why so many views?

Plainly and simply put, the reason there are so many rapture viewpoints is that certain men have crept into the church to take the truth and confuse it. They have taken what has been taught through the ages and replaced it with "new ideas". The simple truth is that many men would rather conform the scripture to their doctrine, than to conform their doctrine to scripture. The foolish pride of Man, arrogance, the need for recognition, there are many reasons men hold to scriptural untruth.
So what is the truth? Can we know the truth? How ho we determine what the truth is?




Determining sound doctrine

How do we determine just what to believe? What IS sound doctrine? What measuring stick do we use to determine that a doctrine IS sound?
The only way we have in determining just what constitutes sound and unsound doctrine is the bible. Everything that we believe MUST be conformed to the scripture, or else it classifies itself as unsound doctrine, or even FALSE DOCTRINE.


What we need are declarative statements FROM THE WORD OF GOD itself, NOT the opinions of man no matter HOW declarative THEY may sound. Many times people will follow charisma over the word and this just ought not be. Many times man will follow man's logic, when the Word of God is founded on a foundation so much deeper, and rises SO much higher.



"Prove ALL things, hold fast that which is good"…

Indeed all doctrine that is good and true is firmly founded in plainly worded declarative scripture so there can be no mistake. The word of God was NEVER written for theologians to tear apart and confuse; it was written to those who would read it humbly and simply believe what God so simply gave to us. The truth of this is Shown in the scriptures where we see that Jesus rejoiced that God the Father Hid the truth of the Word from those who are wise in their own conceit. At the same time though He rejoiced too that the word is revealed to babes. Therefore the first rule in establishing doctrine is that we BELIEVE what is written. All to often people are called believers when in fact they WILL NOT believe the scripture and would rather hold to what their preacher or teacher told them.


Every true doctrine held to IS found plainly written in the bible so that we need not be confused. I believe God to be true in that He is a loving Father that would NEVER confuse the simple and slow. He NEVER lies. He is able to be trusted. We can believe that He is an ever-present help in a time of trouble. We can also believe that He DOES NOT WANT US CONFUSED because scripture tells us that Satan is the author of confusion… not God.


The doctrine of salvation by God's grace, through faith is spelled out explicitly. We see the doctrine of baptism spelled out to where there can be no mistake. The doctrine of the Godhead, the 3 who are 1 is unmistakable. Any deviation from truth is because of either ignorance of what the scripture says, or the refusal to conform our belief to scripture. Ignorance is curable, in that we can read and believe, but refusal to conform our belief to the bible well be eternally punished. That is nothing less that rejection of God and His word.


So are those who believe wrong to be blamed? Well we are all responsible to seek if we want to find. If we have the ability to study the word and we don't, then it IS on our heads. On the other hand it is the leaders, the teachers and preachers of the word who will receive the severest judgment from God.


All through the old and new testaments, we are warned of the preachers who feed themselves and not the flock. We are told of those who fleece the sheep for their own gain and then leave the sheep to the wolf. We are warned exceedingly and repeatedly that the church would fall away. We are told that the church would depart from the truth that was given to us by God in the word. These things are promised.


In order for the church to depart from the truth, it's necessary that the leaders LEAD them astray. God refers to the church as sheep that follow a shepherd to the pasture he takes them to.


Today the church has become an institution of man followers who really don't study out the scripture in order to establish their belief.



The 2 Witnesses


Revelation 11 tells us of the 2 witnesses that will walk in the end days, prophesying and declaring God's word. Why two?


The answer is simple. We are told in the Old Testament that when judging who is right and who is wrong, let everything be established at the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses. Would God require something of us that is impossible to carry out without making a way of escape? No indeed for God is just and true and compassionate. You will find that in attempting to find the truth in scripture, there are at least 2 witnesses of declarative scripture plainly stating the doctrine we are to believe. This relieves us from the conjectures and twisting of the word by men and frees us from falsehood if we just study to show ourselves approved unto God. The question then remains concerning the rapture, "what is the truth?"

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

CLOSER EXAMINATION

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory Born In 1830


As stated earlier, this is the belief that we will be raptured before the tribulation period, which is recognized by most of the church as lasting 7 years. Up until about 1830 it was an unheard of doctrine among those of the church. Some insist that a Miss Margaret MacDonald introduced this doctrine about that time, and some argue that John Darby originated it. Regardless, its origin is not from the Holy Bible, and it never existed before this time. The truth is that it was invented about 1830 by either Ms. MacDonald, or Mr. Darby, but it was never before taught in any church.


Today the pre-tribulation rapture is a big money doctrine. Such authors as Hal Lindsey, Tim Lahaye, Jerry Jenkins and others have made multiple millions of dollars personally by espousing this doctrine. The "Left Behind" series has made Lahaye and Jenkins very rich men, and has served to also served Tyndale publishing very well.


To cut to the chase, the pre-tribulation rapture is NEVER declared in scripture. Not so much as a single passage tells us we are raptured before the tribulation. This being the case, why is it so popular and widely accepted? What is it based on?


The answer as to why it is so widely accepted could be that it is a feel good theology. Who wants to KNOW that they will have to go through the tribulation? Who would WANT to know that someday they will be forced to decide between accepting the mark of the beast, or be forced into homelessness, starvation, watching their friends and family be imprisoned and killed? In our society where men flee stresses, and seek to be entertained and stroked, its much easier to hide their heads in the sand and believe that they will not have to go through such a thing. Also adding to the confusion over the timing of the rapture, is the fact that the sheep are not fed the scriptures, but rather men's ideas, and in this fast food pop culture, we take the easy way out and don't put the necessary time into PROVING all things. There is no REAL study of comparing scripture with scripture. My experience in sharing scripture is that once men begin to seek the scriptures for what IS said, and IF they believe the scripture as it is written, then men and women no longer believe in a pre-tribulation rapture.



What scriptural basis is the pre-trib rapture built upon?

The sad truth is that THERE IS NO scripture at all that we can truly say declares a pre-trib rapture. Preachers and teachers make the flock see it with smoke and mirror techniques. Lets look at the manipulation, the mutilation of scripture in depth.


Matt. 24:36-43
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[4 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


Here you will see the classic pre-trib smoke and mirror deceptiveness of preachers and teachers who know better than to twist the Word of God. Pre-trib teachers will point you to just this portion of the passage, leaving out everything before, and everything after. We will go into the entire passage in the next section to show this but for now we will debunk the pre-trib hoax using the very scripture they use.


First of all there is no place here saying that we are raptured BEFORE the tribulation. Yet this is used by some to help establish it.


Secondly, look at the passage used here and see what is actually said.
It will be as the days of Noah. They lived and partied, ate and drank, married, and gave in marriage, with no one heeding the warning of the wrath of God that was to come.


There was no rapture then. The ones taken from the earth were the wicked! They were wiped out and it was Noah and his family that were left! So shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of man. The wicked will be killed; wiped from the face of the earth, and as Jesus established, the MEEK shall inherit the earth. Also we are told in scripture the dead in Christ rise, then "WE WHO ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN TIL THE COMING OF THE LORD"…. Those still alive REMAIN, again establishing that it's the wicked that are taken as it was in the days of Noah.


This is the context of the passage here in Matthew, and since no prophecy is of any private interpretation, WHO IS MAN, twist the scripture, and to say God didn't mean what He said, as He said it? Where does it say anything about being raptured before a tribulation?



1 Cor. 15:
[5 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality


At least we have established here in this scripture, the fact that there is indeed a day coming, when the dead will rise incorruptible, and that those living will be changed into glorified bodies. There are several more scriptures as well which establish this, but again, no-where at all do we see that this takes place before the tribulation. As a matter of fact, we see this doesn't happen at a first trump, or any trump BUT THE LAST.
The last trump of God, which we can find in Revelation 11:15-19.


1 Thess. 4:
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Here again, we see no reference at all that we are raptured before the tribulation. All we have established here again, is that there WILL be a day in which we are raised, changed, and when we will meet the Lord in the air.


Another interesting fact concerning the rapture in this scripture is found in the word "meet". There are several Greek words that could have been used here that could have been translated "meet". This particular Greek word however, is found only a few times in the bible, and it has a VERY specific meaning. We find this meaning spelled out rather well in Acts 28:15. There we see that Paul was travelling to a town and was expected at a certain time. As his arrival drew close people from all around left the city and traveled up the road Paul would be coming down. They met him outside the city and escorted him back to where they had just come from. The word "meet" in this case meant to leave where you are, to "meet" an arriving party, with the intent of immediately escorting back. Since this is the same word used here in 1 Thess. 4, we see the intent of the Greek language. We are changed, depart from this world to "meet" the Lord in the air, and will escort Him back to the earth is all His glory!


Another interesting thing about this passage is that, though pre-trib teachers use it, it PROVES there is no pre-trib rapture! Verses 15-17 show that those NOT dead at the time of the resurrection are alive 'til His coming, and there's only 2 comings of Christ! Also when pre-trib teachers try to tell us that He comes for us and then the church, this passage shows that we are resurrected at the time the archangel shouts!!! The trumpet sounds!!!! We SEE Christ come in the clouds!!! There is certainly NOTHING secret about that! AMEN!



1 Thess. 5: 1-10
[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
[5] Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
[6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
[7] For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
[8] But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
[1 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.


This passage does not contain so much as a hint of the Lord rapturing us out before the tribulation.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

Pre-trib rapture teachers for some reason say that the fact the Lord says He is coming as a thief, means "before the tribulation", but there is no precedent for this. Scripture does teach over and over that His coming will be "as a thief" to steal away the church, but it NEVER implies that this happens before the trib. When we really look into the scriptures they are plain that this day only overtakes the unbeliever as a thief, and NOT the believer, again as in the days of Noah. What's more, in Revelation 16:12-17, we see that the coming "as a thief" happens between the 6th and 7th vials. These of course are poured out extremely close to the end of the tribulation period.


Another portion of this passage in 1 Thes 5 twisted by the pre tribulation teachers, we see in verse 9, "for God hath not appointed us to wrath". Again, where does this tell us that we are raptured "before" the tribulation? It NEVER does. God makes Himself very plain as to what He is talking about when He says we aren't appointed to wrath IF these men would only finish the verse. This is classic smoke and mirror again. They have taken this very small fragment of a sentence to change the meaning of the entire passage. It goes on to say that we are appointed to OBTAIN SALVATION! We will not suffer the wrath of God in the lake of fire, but gain the eternal rewards of heaven!


Even IF this passage meant the wrath of God in tribulation God would then be a liar because even today Christians are suffering the wrath of man throughout 1/3rd of the world. In Eastern Europe, Asia, and African nations Christians are being imprisoned, robbed, tortured and killed by the thousands.


If this passage meant that we are spared the wrath of God in tribulation, then still it does not mean we must be raptured before the trib. God is ALL-MIGHTY, and able to spare even in the midst of His wrath. One very good example would be the children of Israel as they were captive in Egypt, just before the Exodus.


Moses was sent to Pharaoh to tell him to let God's people go. Pharaoh was rebellious against God and so God poured His wrath time after time, and in various ways upon the land of Egypt, and yet the believing and obedient Israelites were MIRACULOUSLY spared from this wrath. Even in the plague of darkness, the children of Israel had light in the midst of the same land. When the death angel came through killing all the firstborn, those whose door posts were covered by the blood of the lamb were spared. God is certainly able to spare those who are His even in the midst of His great wrath, and to say He is reduced to the single option of a pre-trib rapture to accomplish this is to undermine His great power. In light of all the other facts thus far presented it is a travesty against our God.




Rev. 3: 10
[1 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


Here again we can note 3 things;
1. There is no where any mention that God accomplishes this through a pre-tribulation rapture.
2. Since this is no where stated we do God a great injustice by limiting Him to a single option that never is mentioned in all of scripture.
3. God is able to deliver any way He sees fit.


Also to apply this passage in such a way as to attempt to justify the pre trib rapture by it is to play a very dangerous game with God. In Rev. 22:18-19 we are told that if we add to the words of this prophecy we will have the plagues of God added to us. If we take away from the words of this prophecy we will have our name striken from the Lamb's book of life. To say this passage tells us we will be raptured before the tribulation is to take away the words "keep" and "temptation" and replace them with "rapture" and "tribulation". Even in the greek there is no such way to translate it such, the KJV translates it correctly.



Rev. 4:1
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.


Anyone honestly looking at this passage which is used to defend the pre-tribulation rapture, has to seriously ask, "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?"


First this is used as a "type" though we never had a declarative scripture in the first place to bas this type on. They teach that since John was called up into heaven at this time it means there will be a pre-trib rapture. If this weren't such a sad twisting of scripture it would be laughable.


Secondly we are taught by these same men that the word "church" is never used again until we come to Revelation 19. This has no bearing on anything at all. Most books of the bible NEVER have the word "church" in them AT ALL. The book of Esther never even mentions "God". Does this mean He wasn't there looking after His people? Of-course not. You will also find that even though the word "church" is not used again til the 19th chapter, there are SEVERAL references to the saints. The saints ARE THE CHURCH!



Rev. 4:4&10-11
[4] And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
[1 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
[11] Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


This too is one of those passages where you just have to ask "what were they thinking?"
Even thought we have never yet seen the scripture saying that there is a pre-tribulation rapture, these teachers tell us that these 24 elders are "the church". This is WORSE than the Jehovah's witness telling us only 144,000 are saved. They base this on the tidbit that they are dressed in White, and that in chapter 7 they say they were redeemed from the earth.


These are definitely a select group of men sometime between the time of Adam and now, but we are never told that they are a raptured church, and to say so goes completely against the scripture we are about to go into when we see exactly when we are raptured.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

What DOES the bible say concerning the rapture?


Contrary to what many preachers and teachers will tell you, God does NOT want you confused. Confusion is of Satan, and ignorance can be resolved with study. We cannot know the day nor the hour, but we can know up to the day. Jesus did not eliminate knowing within a few days or a week, though at this point it would be impossible to tell because we haven't see the things come to pass that allow us to time it. There are timetables in Daniel chapters 8 and 12 that allow us to time the time of His coming. Rather than concentrate on something this close though, lets see if we can see from scripture the approximate time of our rapture in relation to the tribulation.


Daniel 11:40-12:1
[4 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
[41] He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
[42] He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
[43] But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
[44] But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
[45] And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


Dan.12
[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


VERY interesting passage here! What is it that this passage tells us about the timing of the rapture? Well we see that Armageddon is in following when all of a sudden, as Jerusalem is surrounded by all the major armies of the world, we see Michael standing for the children of God, Jew and Gentile! It's at THIS TIME that ALL who are written in the Lambs book of life are delivered! Are Christians written in this book? Well if they're not they are doomed for all eternity. So what we see here is that we are delivered (raptured) around the time Armageddon is starting.



Matthew 24:4-44
[5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
[6] And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
[7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
[8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
[1 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[2 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
[25] Behold, I have told you before.
[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[28] For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[3 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
[32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[4 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
[44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.


Now we saw earlier how pre-trib teachers take tiny snippets of a passage to twist it into something it does NOT say. Here we can look at the entire passage and see exactly what IS said.


Jesus begins in verses 4-14 telling us about the dangers to the believer in the last days. FIRST and foremost the danger will be deception to the believer. This is the falling away we are told of in the last days… the falling away of the church from the truth. Take heed that no man deceive you.


Also in that day (this day and the coming days) we see that brethren indeed turn against brethren. In so many nations right now there is a war against the saints of God. The biggest danger though is definitely the deception going on around us. The church is being swallowed by Satan's lies. Our leaders are shepherds that feed themselves and not the sheep. The pastors are hirelings that eat the fat of the lambs and leave the sheep to the wolves. They fleece the sheep of all they have to line their own pockets and to live ABOVE the rest in the flesh. Now we have psychology and feel good doctrine and hype and confusion and mass congregations are being manipulated with mind control techniques.


The next section we come to in Matthew 24 tells us of the day we will see the abomination of desolation. This is the day antichrist steps into the temple proclaiming himself to be God as told to us in Daniel and 2 Thessalonians.


Now look what happens in verses 29-31! "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" we shall see the SIGN of the coming of the Son of man!!!! After the abomination on desolation, very near the end of the tribulation, we will see the angels gather the elect of God and take them to the Lord!


There are some who say that this is Israel, BUT NO WHERE ARE WE TOLD THAT ISRAEL IS RAPTURED! ONLY THE CHURCH IS RAPTURED AND THE NATION OF ISRAEL RECEIVE THEIR KING HERE ON EARTH!

As we go on examining this passage, we see that after the rapture, we enter a time that is the worse time that ever is. In Daniel as we saw, that time is during the battle of Armageddon. The timetables in Daniel 8 and 12, along with the scriptures concerning Armageddon, show us that this period of time lasts approximately 45 days and then the Lord comes to take the kingdoms of the world!!!




Mark 13:4-27
[4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?
[5] And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:
[6] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.
[8] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.
[9] But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
[1 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
[12] Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
[13] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
[15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
[16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
[17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
[18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
[19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
[2 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
[21] And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
[22] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
[23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
[24] But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
[25] And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
[26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
[27] And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.



Here again we see that this passage is so important that it IS REPEATED! It's also repeated in Luke 21.
Truly the Lord does not WANT us to be confused in these issues, but it IS prophesied that the church will depart form the faith so depart it will. There is not a thing we can do to keep the church and her leaders from going astray. The very best we can hope and pray for is that we are honored to reach into this apostate organization and pull out a few who have ears to hear and eyes to see.


We will NOT be raptured until after tha Abomination of Desolation and this occurs accordint to these passages, well into the tribulation. In other passages we see the rapture very near the end of the tribulation, but certainly never before.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
[2 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
[21] For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[22] For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
[23] But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


What does a believer of the word do? They believe the word over even their own thoughts or wishes. They do not attempt to explain away what is written, but they DO believe it as it is written.


If you are a believer of the word then this passage should settle ANY question you have concerning the timing of the rapture.
Here we are told plainly that Christ is the firstfruits of the resurrection, and that ALL those who are His will be resurrected "AT HIS COMING".


Scripture tells us of the 2 comings of Christ, the first of which we have already seen. The second we see at the end of the tribulation in Revelation 20:1-4. Pre-trib rapture theory makes us have at least 3 comings of Christ.



1 Corinthians 15:50-53
[5 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


We see here another timing passage concerning the rapture. We are told that the coming resurrection takes place "at the last trump". Now Revelation shows us the 7 trumpets which sound during the tribulation. If the resurrection takes place before the 7th trumpet is sounded then this passage is lying to us.


Joshuah put forth a challenge to "chose this day whom ye will serve, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord." I put forth the same challenge to chose this day whom we will believe, man or God. As for me and my house, we will serve God.


As for this passage, I believe God that the resurrection WILL NOT take place before the 7th trump of Revelation.



Revelation 11:15-19
[15] And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
[16] And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
[17] Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
[18] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
[19] And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


This is the 7th trump as it is sounded. Here we see as 1 Corinthians 15:50-53 verified, that at the 7th trump the dead are judged and the saints are rewarded.
Now consider closely verse 15. We are told outright again, that this is the time that Christ takes the kingdoms of the world.


Revelation 10: 7 shows us too that the sounding of the 7th trump lasts for a period of "days" so it allows a time span between the resurrection of the dead and the taking of the kingdoms of the world by Christ. When we add the information we have too, concerning the trumps, seals, and vials, and what we have iin Matthew, Mark and Daniel, we see that this time is very limited to the closing days of the tribulation.



1 Thess. 4:13-18
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Verse 15 here tells us that those living at the time of the rapture REMAIN til the coming of Christ. We see also that the dead rise prior to this and return with Christ. As we saw in earlier scripture, the dead will rise to Christ, those living are changed and then remain until His coming, but we all meet the Lord in the air and escort Him back to the earth in His triumphant glory.



2 Thess. 2:1-6
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.


This passage too, times the rapture of the church. We are told that concerning the coming of Christ AND our gathering to Him, this cannot take place until we see 2 things.


The first is the apostasy. This is the departure of the truth that must come, and is here concerning the church and the faith.


The second thing we must see is the abomination of desolation. This is when antichrist enters a rebuilt Jewish temple, stands in the Holy of Holies, and claims that he is God. This happens very near the end of the tribulation. The rapture of the church CANNOT happen before this or this scripture too lied, and God does not lie.



Matthew 13:24-30 & 37-43
[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

[3 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
[37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
[38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
[39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
[4 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
[42] And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
[43] Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


In the parable of the wheat and the tares we are shown that before the wheat can be gathered into the barn, the tares must be gathered and bundled to be burnt. After the tares are gathered, and before we are told they are burnt, then the wheat is gathered by the holy angels. The tares too are gathered and bundled by the angels.


We find an actual picture of this very thing in Revelation 16:12-17.



Revelation 16:12-17
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.


This is the perfect picture of the parable of the wheat and the tares. Verse 13 and 14 we see 3 fallen angels, (reapers) going forth to deceive the world to draw them to the battle of Armageddon. This is the bundling of the tares and THEY WILL BE BURNT, by battle and then the destruction brought by Christ Himself.


What we see then is verse 15 when Christ comes as a thief, which has already been established as a reference to the rapture. Since we are told in Matthew 24 and Mark 13 that it is the angels (reapers) that gather the elect, we see this is the fulfillment of the wheat being gathered to the barn AFTER the tares are bundled to be burnt. Immediately after this we see the 7th vial, and it is done. Christ takes the kingdoms of the world.



Revelation 19:2-9
[2] For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great harlot, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
[3] And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
[4] And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
[5] And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
[7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
[8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
[9] And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Finally, here we see the wedding supper of the Lamb of God! Pre-trib teachers mostly teach that we are in heaven during the 7-year tribulation, which has now been shown to be untrue. They also teach that during this 7 years we are rewarded, which again has been shown to be unscriptural. It is also taught that that is the time when we enjoy the wedding supper of God, which this passage shows to be untrue! Verse 2 shows us that the wedding supper takes place AFTER the destruction of Mystery Babylon! This again, happens very near the end of the tribulation!


Dear readers,
There is no doubt as to what the scriptures do and do not teach. Never is a pre tribulation rapture taught and every passage defining the timing of the rapture gives it very near the very end of the tribulation.


If I can now humbly submit to you just 1 admonition, it would be to drop the teaching of man in this day when we see the church departing quickly from the truth.
Believe God, His word is true.


God bless you who believe
Your brother in Christ
Wolf

 

[johnd]

Daniel 12:11 “And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days.12 “Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

1290 days from the end of history the sacrifice will be abated in the 3rd Jewish Temple when the Abomination of Desolation desecrates the Holiest of Places (Matthew 24:15-34, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-11).

105 days later (1335 days into the 70th Week of Daniel) is when the rapture will take place. 1335 days after the beginning of the Christian tribulation and 1185 days before the end of the Great Tribulation is when the rapture takes place.

Several things to remember:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God

And the mark of the beast will be used as a tracking device for the one people on earth who will not receive it:

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,10 “he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.11 “And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Believers will not face the time of the wrath of God (the Great Tribulation) but there is nothing in the Bible to indicate believers will not suffer the wrath of people and of the devil. In fact, the seedbed of the Church is said to be the blood of the martyrs.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

A close study of the 70th Week of Daniel reveals that it is not one 7 years tribulation but two 3.5 year tribulations. The latter of the two is the Great Tribulation. The former is the believr's tribulation / time of the patience of the saints.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

Hi John
lol No im normally pretty brief, but i prefer showing the scripture rather than referring to chapter and verse and then i wanted to be concise for the sake of the pretribber, establishing that doctrine is determined by clear statements in scripture, removing the arguements for the pre trib rapture, and then exploring how concise God really is.

Much of your post i agree with, some i disagree with. You believe in a mid trib rapture and i believe we are raptured very near the end.
We do agree on the events that are taking place at the time of the resurrection... the AOD and Armageddon beginning. I beleive that Daniel 11:40-12:2, Rev 16:12-17, show us that this takes place very near the end of the tribulation...

Curious... have you studied the 2300 days? What do you make of it? There are 2 timetables in Daniel... i believe the timetable in chapter 12 offers more proof that the resurrection takes place very near the end


God bless you John

 

[johnd]

Much of your post i agree with, some i disagree with. You believe in a mid trib rapture and i believe we are raptured very near the end.

Actually. I think of it as being mid 70th week. Mid-trib presumes the Great Tribulation is the full seven years rather than the 42 months, 1260 days, time-times-and 1/2 a time the Bible idicates it is.

Curious... have you studied the 2300 days? What do you make of it? There are 2 timetables in Daniel... i believe the timetable in chapter 12 offers more proof that the resurrection takes place very near the end

It dennotes when the 3rd temple will be built in relation to the end of time / the 70th Week.

Daniel 8:9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the Beautiful Land. 10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled on them. 11 It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. 12 Because of rebellion, the host of the saints and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?”
14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

 

[johnd]

Note the 3rd temple is not destroyed. It is desecrated but cleansed in the end.

 

[johnd]

This will be the millennial temple where the Jews who once worshipped the false messiah can worship the true Messiah in edenic conditions on earth. They will eventually rebell (having received the mark of the beast they cannot enter into heaven). Then the millenium will end with their judgment and the new heaven - earth eternity begins.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

So John you think then that the tribulation takes place at the end of the millenium it seems is this correct?

i think i could show you differantly in the scriptues if youre interested in persueing it

 

[Tamara224]

CLOSER EXAMINATION

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Theory Born In 1830


As stated earlier, this is the belief that we will be raptured before the tribulation period, which is recognized by most of the church as lasting 7 years. Up until about 1830 it was an unheard of doctrine among those of the church. Some insist that a Miss Margaret MacDonald introduced this doctrine about that time, and some argue that John Darby originated it. Regardless, its origin is not from the Holy Bible, and it never existed before this time. The truth is that it was invented about 1830 by either Ms. MacDonald, or Mr. Darby, but it was never before taught in any church.

Apparently you've never heard of Ephraim the Syrian...He taught pre-trib rapture in about 373 A.D.:

Ephraem's Teaching on the Pretribulation Rapture

<B>

For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.​

(On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373)​

</B>

The early Christian writer and poet, Ephraem the Syrian, (A.D. 306 - 373) was a major theologian of the early Byzantine Eastern Church. He was born near Nisbis, in the Roman province of Syria, near present-day Edessa, Turkey. *** Some scholars suggested that this manuscript was written several centuries later (5th or 6th century) but definitely before the birth of Islam in 622. However William Bousset, one of the greatest scholars on ancient eschatology, concluded in his book The Antichrist Legend that it was written by Ephraem the Syrian before A.D. 373.

 

[WolfBitnGodSmittn]

Apparently you've never heard of Ephraim the Syrian...He taught pre-trib rapture in about 373 A.D.:

Hi Tamara
Actually that quote isnt attributed to Ephriam... it is attributed to PSUEDO-Ephriam... the false Ephriam... and his writings are regarded as spurrious... unfortunately authors like Thomas Ice dont reveal this fact in their books.

On the other hand Psuedo-Ephriam also declared an end trib resurrection


Jude tells us that we are to defend the faith that was once handed down to us... the ONLY other pre trib writing we find in the early church is related to us by the apostle Paul in 2 thes 2:1-6

Here we see they apparantly received a letter as from paul saying the day of Christ was at hand and apparantly they had missed the rapture... Paul rebuked them saying he had already taught them about this... there are 2 things witholding the coming of Christ and our gathering to be with Him

We must see the departure from the faith and we must see the AOD... so even Paul rebuked the pre trib rapture doctirne...

Here is an example of what was handed down to us from the 1st century to darby.... the end trib resurrection was the only one taught as sound doctrine...

The following was compiled by a friend of mine... dave macphearson

Hermas (40-140): "Those, therefore, who continue steadfast, and are put through the fire [of the Great Tribulation that is yet to come], will be purified by means of it....Wherefore cease not speaking these things into the ears of the saints..." (The Pastor of Hermas, Vision 4).

Justin Martyr (100-168): "The man of apostasy [Antichrist], who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians..." (Dialogue With Trypho, 110).

Melito (100-170): "For with all his strength did the adversary assail us, even then giving a foretaste of his activity among us [during the Great Tribulation] which is to be without restraint..." (Discourse on the Resurrection, i, 8).

Irenaeus (140-202): "And they [the ten kings who shall arise] shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight" (Against Heresies, V, 26).

Tertullian (150-220): "The souls of the martyrs are taught to wait [Rev. 6]...that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God..." (On the Resurrection of the Flesh, 25).

Hippolytus (160-240): "...the one thousand two hundred and three score days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church, which flees from city to city, and seeks concealment in the wilderness among the mountains" (Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61).

Cyprian (200-258): "The day of affliction has begun to hang over our heads, and the end of the world and the time of the Antichrist to draw near, so that we must all stand prepared for the battle..." (Epistle, 55, 1).

Victorinus (240-303): "...the times of Antichrist, when all shall be injured" (Commentary on the Apocalypse of the Blessed John, VI, 5).

Lactantius (240-330): "And power will be given him [Antichrist] to desolate the whole earth for forty-two months....When these things shall so happen, then the righteous and the followers of truth shall separate themselves from the wicked, and flee into solitudes" (Divine Institutes, VII, 17).

Athanasius (293-373): "...they have not spared Thy servants, but are preparing the way for Antichrist" (History of the Arians, VIII, 79).

Ephraim the Syrian (306-373): "Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear..." (Sermo Asceticus, I).

Pseudo-Ephraem (4th century?): "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one [Antichrist]..." (On the Last Times, the Antichrist etc., 2).

Cyril of Jerusalem (315-386): "The Church declares to thee the things concerning Antichrist before they arrive...it is well that, knowing these things, thou shouldest make thyself ready beforehand" (Catechetical Lectures, 15, 9).

Jerome (340-420): "I told you that Christ would not come unless Antichrist had come before" (Epistle 21).
Chrysostom (345-407): "...the time of Antichrist...will be a sign of the coming of Christ..." (Homilies on First Thessalonians, 9).

Augustine (354-430): "But he who reads this passage [Daniel 12], even half asleep, cannot fail to see that the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church..." (The City of God, XX, 23).
Venerable Bede (673-735): "[The Church's triumph will] follow the reign of Antichrist" (The Explanation of the Apocalypse, II, 8).

Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153): "There remains only one thing----that the demon of noonday [Antichrist] should appear, to seduce those who remain still in Christ..." (Sermons on the Song of Songs, 33, 16).
Roger Bacon (1214-1274): "...because of future perils [for the Church] in the times of Antichrist..." (Opus Majus, II, p. 634).

John Wycliffe (1320-1384): "Wherefore let us pray to God that he keep us in the hour of temptation, which is coming upon all the world, Rev. iii" (Writings of the Reverend and Learned John Wickliff, D.D., p. 155).

Martin Luther (1483-1546): "[The book of Revelation] is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the Church..." (Works of Martin Luther, VI, p. 481).

William Tyndale (1492-1536): "...antichrist preacheth not Peter's doctrine (which is Christ's gospel)...he compelleth all men with violence of sword" (Greenslade's The Work of William Tindale, p. 127).

Menno Simons (1496-1561): "...He will appear as a triumphant prince and a victorious king to bring judgment. Then will those who persecute us look upon Him..." (Complete Writings..., p. 622).

John Calvin (1509-1564): "...we ought to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the church" (Institutes, Vol. 2, p. 411).

John Knox (1515-1572): "...the great love of God towards his Church, whom he pleased to forewarn of dangers to come, so many years before they come to pass...to wit, The man of sin, The Antichrist, The harlot of Babylon" (The History of the Reformation..., I, p. 76).

John Fox (1516-1587): "...that second beast prophesied to come in the later time of the Church...to disturb the whole Church of Christ..." (Acts and Monuments, I).

Roger Williams (1603-1683): "Antichrist...hath his prisons, to keep Christ Jesus and his members fast..." (The Bloody Tenent, of Persecution, p. 153).

John Bunyan (1628-1688): "He comes in flaming fire [as Judge] and...the trump of God sounds in the air, the dead to hear his voice..." (The Last Four Things: Of Judgment).

Daniel Whitby (1638-1726): "...after the Fall of Antichrist, there shall be such a glorious State of the Church...so shall this be the Church of Martyrs, and of those who had not received the Mark of the Beast..." (A Paraphrase and Commentary, p. 696).

Increase Mather (1639-1723): "That part of the world [Europe] was to be principally the Seat of the Church of Christ during the Reign of Antichrist" (Ichabod, p. 64).

Matthew Henry (1662-1714): "Those who keep the gospel in a time of peace shall be kept by Christ in an hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10]" (Commentary, VI, p. 1134).

Cotton Mather (1663-1728): "...that New Jerusalem, whereto the Church is to be advanced, when the Mystical Babylon shall be fallen" (The Wonders of the Invisible World, p. 3).

Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758): "...continuance of Antichrist's reign [when the Church is persecuted] did not commence before the year of Christ 479..." (A History of the Work of Redemption, p. 217).

John Wesley (1703-1791): "'The stars shall...fall from heaven,' (Revelation, vi. 13)....And then shall be heard the universal shout...followed by the 'voice of the archangel,'...'and the trumpet of God'...(I Thessalonians iv. 16)." (The Works of the Rev. John Wesley, A.M., Vol. V, p. 173).

George Whitefield (1714-1770): "...'while the bridegroom tarried,' in the space of time which passeth between our Lord's ascension and his coming again to judgment..." (Gillies' Memoirs of Rev. George Whitefield, p. 471).

David Brainerd (1718-1747): "...and I could not but hope, that the time was at hand, when Babylon the great would fall and rise no more" (Memoirs..., p. 326).

Morgan Edwards (1722-1795): "[Antichrist] has hitherto assumed no higher title than 'the vicar general of Christ on earth'..." (Two Academical Exercises etc., p. 20).

John Newton (1725-1807): "'Fear not temptation's fiery day, for I will be thy strength and stay. Thou hast my promise, hold it fast, the trying hour [Revelation 3:10] will soon be past'" (The Works of the Rev. John Newton, Vol. II, p. 152).

Adam Clarke (1762-1832): "We which are alive, and remain...he [Paul] is speaking of the genuine Christians which shall be found on earth when Christ comes to judgment" (Commentary, Vol. VI, p. 550).

Charles G. Finney (1792-1875): "Christ represents it as impossible to deceive the elect. Matt. 24:24. We have seen that the elect unto salvation includes all true christians." (Lectures on Systematic Theology, p. 606).

Charles Hodge (1797-1878): "...the fate of his Church here on earth...is the burden of the Apocalypse" (Systematic Theology, Vol. III, p. 827).

Albert Barnes (1798-1870): "...he will keep them in the future trials that shall come upon the world [Revelation 3:10]" (Notes on the New Testament, p. 94).

George Mueller (1805-1898): "The Scripture declares plainly that the Lord Jesus will not come until the Apostacy shall have taken place, and the man of sin...shall have been revealed..." (Mrs. Mueller's Missionary Tours and Labours, p. 148).

Benjamin W. Newton (1805-1898): "The Secret Rapture was bad enough, but this [John Darby's equally novel idea that the book of Matthew is on 'Jewish' ground instead of 'Church' ground] was worse" (unpublished Fry MS. and F. Roy Coad's Prophetic Developments, p. 29).

R. C. Trench (1807-1886): "...the Philadelphian church...to be kept in temptation, not to be exempted from temptation..." (Seven Churches of Asia, pp. 183-184).

Carl F. Keil (1807-1888): "...the persecution of the last enemy Antichrist against the church of the Lord..." (Biblical Commentary, Vol. XXXIV, p. 503).

Henry Alford (1810-1871): "Christ is on His way to this earth [I Thessalonians 4:17]..." (The New Testament for English Readers, Vol. II, p. 491).

John Lillie (1812-1867): "In his [Antichrist's] days was to be the great----the last----tribulation of the Church" (Second Thessalonians, pp. 537-538).

F. L. Godet (1812-1900): "The gathering of the elect [Matthew 24:31]...is mentioned by St. Paul, 1 Thess. 4:16, 17, 2 Thess. 2:1..." (Commentary on Luke, p. 452).

Robert Murray McCheyne (1813-1842): "Christians must have 'great tribulation'; but they come out of it" (Bonar's Memoirs of McCheyne, p. 26).

S. P. Tregelles (1813-1875): "The Scripture teaches the Church to wait for the manifestation of Christ. The secret theory bids us to expect a coming before any such manifestation" (The Hope of Christ's Second Coming, p. 71).

Franz Delitzsch (1813-1890): "...the approaching day is the day of Christ, who comes...for final judgment" (Commentary on Hebrews, Vol. II, p. 183).

C. J. Ellicott (1819-1905): "[I Thessalonians 4:17] 'to meet the Lord,' as He is coming down to earth..." (Commentary on the Thessalonian Epistles, p. 66).

Nathaniel West (1826-1906): "[The Pre-Trib Rapture] is built on a postulate, vicious in logic, violent in exegesis, contrary to experience, repudiated by the early Church, contradicted by the testimony of eighteen hundred years...and condemned by all the standard scholars of every age" (The Apostle Paul and the "Any Moment" Theory, p. 30).

Alexander Maclaren (1826-1910): "He will keep us in the midst of, and also from, the hour of temptation [Revelation 3:10]" (The Epistles of John, Jude and the Book of Revelation, p. 266).

J. H. Thayer (1828-1901): "To keep [Revelation 3:10]:...by guarding, to cause one to escape in safety out of" (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, p. 622).

Adolph Saphir (1831-1891): "...the advent of the Messiah...to which both the believing synagogue and the church of the Lord Jesus Christ are looking..." (The Epistle to the Hebrews, Vol. I, p. 96).

M. R. Vincent (1834-1922): "The preposition ['from'] implies, not a keeping from temptation, but a keeping in temptation [Revelation 3:10]..." (Word Studies..., p. 466).

William J. Erdman (1834-1923): "...by the 'saints' seen as future by Daniel and by John are meant 'the Church'..." (Notes on the Book of Revelation, p. 47).

H. Grattan Guinness (1835-1910): "...the Church is on earth during the action of the Apocalypse..." (The Approaching End of the Age, p. 136).

H. B. Swete (1835-1917): "The promise [of Revelation 3:10], as Bede says, is 'not indeed of your being immune from adversity, but of not being overcome by it'" (The Apocalypse of St. John, p. 56).

William G. Moorehead (1836-1914): "...the last days of the Church's deepest humiliation when Antichrist is practicing and prospering (Dan. viii:12)..." (Outline Studies in the New Testament, p. 123).

A. H. Strong (1836-1921): "The final coming of Christ is referred to in: Mat. 24:30...[and] I Thess. 4:16..." (Systematic Theology, p. 567).

Theodor Zahn (1838-1933): "...He will preserve...at the time of the great temptation [Revelation 3:10]..." (Zahn-Kommentar, I, p. 305).

I. T. Beckwith (1843-1936): "The Philadelphians...are promised that they shall be carried in safety through the great trial [Revelation 3:10], they shall not fall" (The Apocalypse of John, p. 484).

Robert Cameron (1845-1922): "The Coming for, and the Coming with, the saints, still persists, although it involves a manifest contradiction, viz., two Second Comings which is an absurdity" (Scriptural Truth About the Lord's Return, p. 16).

B. B. Warfield (1851-1921): "...He shall come again to judgment...to close the dispensation of grace..." (Biblical Doctrines, p. 639).

Philip Mauro (1859-1952): "...'dispensational teaching' is modernistic in the strictest sense...it first came into existence within the memory of persons now living..." (The Gospel of the Kingdom, p. 8).



Aside from psuedo ephriam my friend... the false ephriam, youll never find 1 early church leader teaching a pre trib rapture... not 1 quote... but ALL these prove to us what was handed down as sound doctirne until the time of Darby around 1838



God bless you