Range of beliefs on Satan within Christianity

[awitch]

Ah cool is that a type of photography? I find the North Eastern parts of the US the most interesting. Assuming NJ is New Jersey. There's also similar weather to the UK and that could mean there'd be similar wildlife, birds etc? Not much science behind my assumption though.

It's supposed to be but I'm not a very good photographer because I don't have the proper equipment.
I have an entry-level spotting scope and with an adapter so I can take pictures through it with my cell phone. Going to try out a much better adapter that I just got yesterday.

We have a lot of birds in the US that are very similar to UK, but are actually different species and then others birds that are related but look really different. I guess what you call the Common starling is the European starling here and they are the same species for now. Back in 1890 some Shakespeare fanatics thought it would be cool to release 60 of them in Central Park in NYC and now we have 150 million of them. I guess you also use the term buzzards and we use hawks for the birds of prey.

 

[Dansiph]

@Aspzan and @hedrick , regarding the angelic sperm issue, in Genesis the angels who accompanied God in the Sodom and Gomorrah story were apparently able to eat food with Abraham if I remember correctly.

The Science of Angels (I know people might object to the use of the word science but it's at least descriptive)

Also this says a bit on the subject: Can Angels Be Male or Female?

 

[Dansiph]

It's supposed to be but I'm not a very good photographer because I don't have the proper equipment.
I have an entry-level spotting scope and with an adapter so I can take pictures through it with my cell phone. Going to try out a much better adapter that I just got yesterday.

We have a lot of birds in the US that are very similar to UK, but are actually different species and then others birds that are related but look really different. I guess what you call the Common starling is the European starling here and they are the same species for now. Back in 1890 some Shakespeare fanatics thought it would be cool to release 60 of them in Central Park in NYC and now we have 150 million of them. I guess you also use the term buzzards and we use hawks for the birds of prey.

Yeah animals have a tendency to reproduce in great numbers sometimes lol.

I'm actually going to go to the park around midday tomorrow and see what I see and hear. I doubt it'll be anything unexpected but I'll just aim to recognise what I see. Usually I'm just walking quickly for light exercise so I don't pay a lot of attention to my surroundings.

 

[awitch]

Yeah animals have a tendency to reproduce in great numbers sometimes lol.

Especially when they have no predators and plenty of food choices.

I'm actually going to go to the park around midday tomorrow and see what I see and hear. I doubt it'll be anything unexpected but I'll just aim to recognise what I see. Usually I'm just walking quickly for light exercise so I don't pay a lot of attention to my surroundings.

Love to hear what you find.

 

[Dansiph]

Love to hear what you find.

I'll let you know in this thread. That is, if I even recognise anything except the pigeons. I'll see if I can find an app that'll help me at first.

 

[Dansiph]

Especially when they have no predators and plenty of food choices.



Love to hear what you find.

The best app in the UK is £13.99. Seems a bit much for an app.

 

[hedrick]

It just dawned on me the topic of conversation is probably the strangest I've ever had lol. I can tolerate them digesting food but having full reproductive abilities is weird. Doesn't that transfer DNA etc? Why would an angel have DNA?

I’m separating the job of understanding what the authors of Genesis meant from what I think happened or is possible.

There is good reason to think that people as late as the 1st Cent through angels could have children with human women. As far as I can tell from the Bible, angels are not purely spiritual, but have some physical characteristics.

I agree that ancients knew roughly how someone gets pregnant. I think they also knew that children tended to share characteristics of both parents. Indeed that’s the reason for Gen 6:4. The children of angels would be stronger than normal children.

They did not know about DNA, so the question of whether it’s reasonable to think that angels have DNA isn’t relevant. Indeed I think the whole idea of angels having children with humans is hard to believe, but there’s good evidence that ancient Jews (and Christians) did believe it, so presumably their ideas of the world are different from mine. That’s not a shock, actually.

What do I believe? I don’t actually know whether angels exist. I’m not denying it, but I’m certainly not sure they do. I’m not prepared to say whether they have DNA. If their bodies are essentially human, I guess they’d have to. DNA isn’t used just for having children. It’s intrinsic to how our bodies work.

 

[awitch]

I'll let you know in this thread. That is, if I even recognise anything except the pigeons. I'll see if I can find an app that'll help me at first.

There are some free ones I use if you can get them.
I suggest Merlin Bird ID; you tap the characteristics and based on date and location and it gives you a list of likely possibilities. I'd say it's 80% accurate.

BirdsEye and GoBird have a "Nearby" feature that just lists all the species near you based on your GPS location.

eBird is the standard for keeping lists but I don't use it. I don't think it's very intuitive. I prefer writing it by hand in a journal.

SongSleuth and ChirpOMatic try to ID the bird based on recordings of their calls and song. I don't find them to be very accurate though.

 

[Robban]

Christian theologians defined what is acceptable to believe about Christ, but what is acceptable to believe about Satan? Many of the common ideas about Satan, the devil, and demons come from apocryphal books.

Well, when Peter said,

"Surely this will not happen to you" (concerning the death of Jesus)
He was told,
"Get behind me Satan"

Whaddja think of that then?

 

[cloudyday2]

The Science of Angels (I know people might object to the use of the word science but it's at least descriptive)

Also this says a bit on the subject: Can Angels Be Male or Female?

It seems to me that the root of science is data, so we ought to analyze actual claims of angelic encounters.

So here is my theory (FWIW - LOL):

(1) In most cases, angel encounters are very similar to hallucinations. One person might see an angel while nobody else seems to notice, and often the angel is gone when a person looks away and looks back. However, if angels are only experienced in our minds (like a hallucination) it does not necessarily mean that they are merely hallucinations. Usually there is something Godly accomplished in an angelic encounter while a hallucination is typically more nonsensical.

(2) Angels look like normal humans except there is something unnatural about them. Maybe the angel is wearing clothing that seems a little odd or maybe the angel simply behaves a little odd. Angels seem to be very serious and focused and holy, and they tend to inspire those feelings in the observer.

(3) Demons, on the other hand, seem to be more human. They are more like a fun friend who is a bad influence on you. Other times, demons seem more vicious and hate-filled like rabid animals.

(4) The devil is described in the Bible as an angel of light. "The satan" is described as a prosecutor who tests humans and seeks for us to be condemned for sins.

 

[cloudyday2]

Well, when Peter said,

"Surely this will not happen to you" (concerning the death of Jesus)
He was told,
"Get behind me Satan"

Whaddja think of that then?

The response of Jesus has always seemed a little harsh, so I have wondered why.

Maybe Jesus was genuinely tempted by the possibility of becoming the Messiah that everybody expected, and his harshness reflected his fear of succumbing. By tempting Jesus, Peter was in the role of Satan.

Or maybe Jesus felt that Satan was inspiring Peter to tempt him, and his harshness was directed at Satan within Peter rather than at Peter.

Another interesting thing is Satan, "the satan", "the devil", Belial, Beelzebub, the dragon in Revelation, the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Did Jesus see all of them as the same?

 

[dlamberth]

Way back when, when I was in the process of rethinking my Christian connection, one of the things I spent time contemplating on is Satan and how critical that image is in order to be a Christian. And I found that I just couldn't go there.

 

[Robban]

The response of Jesus has always seemed a little harsh, so I have wondered why.

Maybe Jesus was genuinely tempted by the possibility of becoming the Messiah that everybody expected, and his harshness reflected his fear of succumbing. By tempting Jesus, Peter was in the role of Satan.

Or maybe Jesus felt that Satan was inspiring Peter to tempt him, and his harshness was directed at Satan within Peter rather than at Peter.

Another interesting thing is Satan, "the satan", "the devil", Belial, Beelzebub, the dragon in Revelation, the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Did Jesus see all of them as the same?

"Djävulskap" is what nasty mischief is called in Swedish,

=devilship or devilish.

So, take it from there, it is up to no good.

The Satan is more sent to test from what can be seen.

Or if you like, anger is idolworship,

Becoming angry over what comes our way is not trusting it was sent for a reason.

Unless it has undergone namechange a few times.

 

[cloudyday2]

"Djävulskap" is what nasty mischief is called in Swedish,

=devilship or devilish.

So, take it from there, it is up to no good.

The Satan is more sent to test from what can be seen.

Or if you like, anger is idolworship,

Becoming angry over what comes our way is not trusting it was sent for a reason.

Unless it has undergone namechange a few times.

I've been thinking lately that it is very important to trust that everything is going according to God's plan including who we are and the path we choose and the events that happen to us. I have a bad habit of wishing I was a better person and wishing I had made better choices and so forth. That is not good.

 

[cloudyday2]

Way back when, when I was in the process of rethinking my Christian connection, one of the things I spent time contemplating on is Satan and how critical that image is in order to be a Christian. And I found that I just couldn't go there.

Satan certainly seems to be an important character.

 

[Robban]

I've been thinking lately that it is very important to trust that everything is going according to God's plan including who we are and the path we choose and the events that happen to us. I have a bad habit of wishing I was a better person and wishing I had made better choices and so forth. That is not good.

Freedom of choice is a little overrated I think,

something to make us feel good about ourselves.

Until it backfires and the walls come tumbling down.

The biggest choices are already made,

Boy or girl, parents, place of birth, date of birth,

hair clour, skin colour it goes on and on.

Someone says,
"I shall marry who I want."

No, you cannot marry who you want, usually it may boil down to two or three.

But we are given a choice,
"Choose between life and death."

A corpse is cold, and emotionless,

Life is warm and vibrant(caught that one from dlamberth)

(vibrant)

 

[Robban]

Good vibrations

 

[cloudyday2]

Good vibrations

When the big earthquake finally hits California, the Beach Boys will need to rename their song "Bad Vibrations"

 

[Robban]

When the big earthquake finally hits California, the Beach Boys will need to rename their song "Bad Vibrations"

Hi guys,
what's shakin'.

 

[Dansiph]

Especially when they have no predators and plenty of food choices.



Love to hear what you find.

I'm living with my mum atm and unfortunately she may have corona virus so I couldn't go to the park. I'll know if she has it tomorrow. Her symptoms aren't serious.