Random thoughts to consider....

[razeontherock]

it blessed my socks off. Theres a scripture where it speaks of "IN the PLACE where the passover (Jesus Christ) is to be sacrificed is THE PLACE WHERE I will put my name **IN**

He was led to Galgotha (which by interpretation) is the place of **A SKULL**

They have his name **IN THEIR FOREHEADS**

As he said, "We have the MIND OF CHRIST"

There's more to this than we know! It always scares me when people try to separate the Spiritual from the natural. Jesus never did that. He always showed their connection!

There was a man who made repeated attempts to find archeological elements of the Torah, and he discovered a lot. The one that pertains here is that beneath Jesus' cross is a cave, with a crack in the ceiling. His blood ran through it - and right onto the Ark of the Covenant.

"For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself" Heb 9:19-24

Just another angle, showing the connection between the physical and the Spiritual. Once that's firm, the details of our Breastplate of Righteousness / Faith & Love / Judgment come alive with meaning! I have a thread on that in deeper fellowship, the only one I started there. I'm going to heavily edit my OP yet again, and that stuff needs to be balanced w/ the rest of the word.

 

[Fireinfolding]

There's more to this than we know! It always scares me when people try to separate the Spiritual from the natural. Jesus never did that. He always showed their connection!

There was a man who made repeated attempts to find archeological elements of the Torah, and he discovered a lot. The one that pertains here is that beneath Jesus' cross is a cave, with a crack in the ceiling. His blood ran through it - and right onto the Ark of the Covenant.

"For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself" Heb 9:19-24

Just another angle, showing the connection between the physical and the Spiritual. Once that's firm, the details of our Breastplate of Righteousness / Faith & Love / Judgment come alive with meaning! I have a thread on that in deeper fellowship, the only one I started there. I'm going to heavily edit my OP yet again, and that stuff needs to be balanced w/ the rest of the word.

I hadnt heard the ark of the covenant was found in a cave where Jesus was crucified, is this common knowledge Raze? Because I never heard of it myself, I sorta regard Christ (his temple) later seen (raise up) in heaven wherein was seen the ark of his testament (in which contained the book of the law and the second set of he tables stones) wherein the similitude find relevance in his flesh (that which thou brakest, I have kept) sort thing, pertaining to the death of the testor and the ushering in of the New testament = pour out my spirit= laws in their minds (sorta thing again).

 

[Chickapee]

wow after looking into Joshua more I am embarrassed , its not so much the rest , but the victory over the enemies ... Jesus / Joshua
Jehovah is salvation leads the way first , we cannot do anything without Him right ?
and I see you guys made some more awesome posts !
I cannot keep up , the site was soooooo slow for days now, also my puter is creeping along as well , that I just now could get on to post this!!!

the natural first and the Spiritual
seems the OLD TESTAMENT IS full of the natural things first wittnessing to us as the Spirit al seems to follow with it

love the ARK post Sis !!!! C

 

[Chickapee]

the Ark of His covenant or testimony is in heaven according to Rev Sis ..

Rev 11:19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
testament Strong's G1242 - diathēkē 1) a disposition, arrangement, of any sort, which one wishes to be valid, the last disposition which one makes of his earthly possessions after his death, a testament or will
2) a compact, a covenant, a testament
a) God's covenant with Noah, etc.

seems they are interchangable and Spiritual in nature to me anyhoo!


Ark Strong's G2787 - kibōtos
1) a wooden chest or box
2) in the NT the ark of the covenant, in the temple at Jerusalem
3) of Noah's vessel built in the form of an ark


I do not have the right words to speak it , but believe its both meaning the same things !

 

[Fireinfolding]

the Ark of His covenant or testimony is in heaven according to Rev Sis ..

Rev 11:19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
testament Strong's G1242 - diathēkē 1) a disposition, arrangement, of any sort, which one wishes to be valid, the last disposition which one makes of his earthly possessions after his death, a testament or will
2) a compact, a covenant, a testament
a) God's covenant with Noah, etc.

seems they are interchangable and Spiritual in nature to me anyhoo!


Ark Strong's G2787 - kibōtos
1) a wooden chest or box
2) in the NT the ark of the covenant, in the temple at Jerusalem
3) of Noah's vessel built in the form of an ark


I do not have the right words to speak it , but believe its both meaning the same things !

Yeah thats how I would regard it sis, "DESTROY this temple"= His body and I will raise it up in three days"...I know theres three day journey for the ark, and the temple of God "to wit God was in Christ" recconciling the world to himself" was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and elsewhere it says, BEHOLD the Ark of the covenant was to go BEFORE them over the Jordan and John at the Jordan said "BEHOLD The LAMB OF GOD Christ fulfilling all righteousness as the ark KEPT the commandments "THOU BRAKEST even as Jesus said I have KEPT my Fathers commandments and abide in his love, if you keep MINE commandments ye also abide in my love.

The death of the testor of the first covenant/ his testament (written on stones) as was the book of the law and kept in the ark as He comes in the volume of the book, the new covenant/testament is written not on tables of stones but on fleshly tables of our hearts (the circumcision of Christ) by the Spirit

Makes sense in Jesus Christ as I see it, havent worked it all out just adding as I see more

 

[Chickapee]

You said it, very well indeed!!!! much of them places showing Jesus Christ ... I believe Jesus Christ has been along , but the revealing of Him in this last days are what we are seeing NOW ! the glory of God being revealed ...

worlds being plural could it be both the natural and again the Spiritual worlds

old and new testaments /witness
Heb 1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

love your posts ! c

 

[Fireinfolding]

Its fun finding him in there, I cant agree more Chicapee

 

[razeontherock]

First: OT = natural NT = Spiritual

Types, figures, foreshadowing, outright prophecy. Everything in the OT gives us some glimpse into the Spiritual realm but it's hidden there on purpose, while the purpose of the NT is to reveal G-d.

I hadnt heard the ark of the covenant was found in a cave where Jesus was crucified,

WAIT! Christ was crucified out in broad daylight and hung out to dry.

An explorer found a cave underneath His cross, with a crack in the ceiling that His blood would have dripped through. Onto the Ark of the Covenant which he found situated such that Christ's blood would have sprinkled it "according to the pattern shown to Moses in the mount."

No, not common knowledge at all which is why I included it here. Again, the connection between the physical and the Spiritual is far greater than we expect. It would be enough for Jesus, immediately after coming out of the tomb and telling Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended," to enter into Heaven and sprinkle the true Ark in the throneroom of heaven. We know that happened because later He's saying "touch me."

Yet G-d didn't neglect the earthly Ark.

 

[Fireinfolding]

First: OT = natural NT = Spiritual

Types, figures, foreshadowing, outright prophecy. Everything in the OT gives us some glimpse into the Spiritual realm but it's hidden there on purpose, while the purpose of the NT is to reveal G-d.



WAIT! Christ was crucified out in broad daylight and hung out to dry.

An explorer found a cave underneath His cross, with a crack in the ceiling that His blood would have dripped through. Onto the Ark of the Covenant which he found situated such that Christ's blood would have sprinkled it "according to the pattern shown to Moses in the mount."

No, not common knowledge at all which is why I included it here. Again, the connection between the physical and the Spiritual is far greater than we expect. It would be enough for Jesus, immediately after coming out of the tomb and telling Mary "touch me not, for I have not yet ascended," to enter into Heaven and sprinkle the true Ark in the throneroom of heaven. We know that happened because later He's saying "touch me."

Yet G-d didn't neglect the earthly Ark.

Ok I get what your saying, His vesture was dipped in blood it certainly dont hurt anything amen? I do realize the natural come first I always give pause to myself as it pertains to how the Holy Ghost teaches of which it does speak, "spiritual things with spiritual" so although I might capture a natural with spiritual comparison I sometimes second guess it too because of the mode of comparison the Holy Ghost teaches by.

And you know me, I need scripture (for myself at least) so I feel comfortable showing the point to others but I bet it can be shown in a different way, given its all him anyway right?

 

[Wheeler]

Fireinfolding,

Wow…wow! I really like your post about Golgotha. That is very, very interesting….and TRUE! I’ve often struggled why it was named that….the “place of the skull.” God’s thoughts and ways and wisdom are so much higher than our own. I thank God for His knowledge that is being revealed. Yes, it makes sense…..thank you for showing me that!

Truly, by his sacrifice we are forgiven for our sins…our misses….our missing the mark of the Truth. We (the churches) fall short of the glory of God….we do not love each other because of our misinterpretations of the Scriptures. But by his sacrifice, we have been forgiven…..because of our ignorance. We have been living in strife and envy….alienated and enemies in our MINDS by wicked works…..as a church. Written by Paul to an awakening church for TODAY:

(Col1:21 KJV) And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

We are forgiven because we (the churches) have done these things in INGNORANCE…..not knowing His spiritual Truth in our alienated MINDS. The Lord was crucified at a place called “Calvary”….or “Golgotha” which means “ the place of the skull”…..a “dead” mind….deadened by wicked works….works that prevent us from loving one another.

(Luke 23:33 KJV) And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

All those in the past who have lived in darkness….in envy and strife…have been forgiven because of their ignorance. Yet, now it seems the “times of this ignorance” is coming to a close as the Lord continues to open up the Scriptures to our understanding. A time comes for His churches to REPENT of their wicked works. And “repent” means “to THINK differently, to feel remorse and change the MIND.” We must put on Christ….we must pass from death to life….by loving one another in His knowledge and Truth.

(Acts 17:30 KJV) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

By His sacrifice we have been forgiven all of our sins….all of our religious blasphemies….all of our hatred toward one another…all of our church divisions….all of our coveting….all of our doctrines and commandments of men that we have formed in error. He forgives those who have done such things in ignorance…He forgives those who are “dead” in trespasses and sins.

(Mark 3:28 KJV) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

He comes to us with the Spirit of Truth and opens up the Scriptures to our understanding so that we may repent of our ways and THOUGHTS…to change our MINDS….and seek God and His kingdom first. But those who will resist and oppose this knowledge will be in real danger….because they will no longer be in ignorance.

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

The Lord comes to write His laws in our MINDS. He does this by opening up the WRITINGS themselves….the Scripture of Truth is revealed.

(Heb 10:15 KJV) Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

And once we KNOW His Truth in our MINDS, He will remember our sins and iniquities no more. We are to repent….change the MIND….and there will be remission of sins. His sacrifice was made at the “place of the skull”….the alienated mind that was filled with wicked works….works that do not promote love among the brothers and sisters. We are forgiven for missing the mark of the Truth.

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Once there is this remission of sins, there will no longer be any offering for sin….because there will no longer be any IGNORANCE of the Truth. Once we have His knowledge, we are to retain His Truth and not oppose and contradict….not go on living in our sins WILLFULLY.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

He comes to write His laws into our MINDS….He comes to give us the KNOWLEDGE of the Truth so that we may be saved from His wrath to come…which comes upon those who WILLFULLY continue to sin. They will oppose and resist His Truth…His knowledge….and continue in their church ways and thoughts. They will continue to live in envy and strife…divisions and hatred….in coveting. They will not have repented from their thoughts and ways….loving the current religious world which will burn. The difference will be that they will do these things after KNOWING the Truth…..there will no longer be any IGNORANCE. They will darken their understanding and turn their ears from the Truth….not enduring sound doctrine….the doctrine of Christ. He comes to write His knowledge in our MINDS.

(Heb 10:26 KJV) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Remember Noah…..a preacher of righteousness. The earth was corrupt and full of violence before the wrath of God came upon them….they did not love each other. The churches are also reaching this filling point. We have corrupted our ways before Him….but in ignorance.

(Gen 6:11 KJV) The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

The wrath will come upon those who will not be alienated from their wicked works. The wrath comes upon the ungodly…those who will not receive the love of His revealed Truth and be saved. It is the church that needs to REPENT…change the MIND….and be forgiven by his sacrifice upon the “place of the skull.”

(2 Pet 2:5 KJV) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[Fireinfolding]

So kool Wheeler!! Yes!!

I just thrilled you can catch the skull similitude, I got nothing but silence where I posted it before, or rather an "I dont get it, sorry" But that does (sometimes) leave you thinking you might be being too imaginative or something... I dont know, and perhaps I do lack the ability to expound what I am seeing (alot) which often makes you hesitant to post things till you have enough to tie it in tightly.

I often find the cross of Christ the center of wisdom where everything is sorta folded up and changed there somehow.

It's confirming as well catch how the apostles caught what it was (even in a similitude) yet speaking nothing of it (directly, that is) but its aplication (to us) only and yet it does bear them further witness in their choice of words which correlates beautifully in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Cant say this enough, He is just amazing (for sure) brother

Gods richest blessings!

 

[Wheeler]

Hi Fireinfolding,

I hear you about the “silence”…… I’m real familiar with it…it gets deafening sometimes.

Not only does “Golgotha” mean “the place of the skull”…..or “head”….but I also found some websites that say it could be a place where a poll was done….a census….a “head” count. It does make sense also because he was/IS “numbered with the transgressors.”

(Luke 22:37 KJV) For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.

It didn’t just stop at the cross with the two thieves on the cross…..it continues in the church today. We have been the transgressors that have been forgiven. We have been living with the “two swords” of envy and strife. But these things will have an end….the Lord comes to redeem us…..to deliver us from ungodly men whose teachings promote strife among the brothers and sisters.

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.

And we are to pray that we do not enter into temptation…into the contention in the church that has been caused by the tares…the enemies….the false prophets whose focus is their riches.

40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

The false prophets’ preaching is the temptation. Any one who has listened to them have gone into the “broad way” to ruin….into envy and strife…into hatred for each other….into contention…..into divisions. This is the “death” that MANY are living in…..this is the great “DARKNESS” that many sit in. This is the many who have gone to “SLEEP.” They are the “dead in Christ” because they are forgiven by his sacrifice ….they are “dead” in trespasses and sins. Yet, they shall live again.

(Mat 7:13 KJV) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Only the FEW have gone the narrow way…..which leads to Life in Christ….only the FEW have found it. The “few” are the disciples of Christ….because they LOVE ONE ANOTHER. They follow the doctrine of Christ….the “new commandment” of Christ. They partake of the Lord ’s Supper. They hear his voice.

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

It is the false prophets in our churches that seek to deceive us….and they have deceived MANY into their denominational doors.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The “sheep” that follow Him and know His voice are those who love one another.

(John 10:4 KJV) And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

The church that loves one another will not follow a “stranger”….they will flee from false prophets…preachers, priests, reverends, pastors….that would like to bring them into bondage….into strife and envy…into divisions…into hatred….into “destruction.”

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

The false preachers are thieves and robbers….seeking another man’s “gold and silver.”

(John 10:8 KJV) All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

The church that loves one another is the “little flock.” They are the disciples or learners of Christ….for they follow after Him…having love for one another.

(Luke 12:32 KJV) Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Those that have brotherly love (Philadelphia,) are the ones who have kept His Word….TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER. They have not denied His name….by wicked works. They are the “few”….they have “little strength”….but the “little flock” will be strengthened. The Father will give them the Kingdom….He will give them the mysteries of the kingdom….He will open up the Scripture of Truth to them and give them a “mouth”…the open door…to preach it. No man will shut it….no earthly-thinking man will gainsay or resist it.

(Rev 3:7 KJV) And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

How is it that He is denied? By wicked works have many denied Him. Many in the church have denied His name by not loving one another. Their doctrines and commandments of men bring envy and strife among the brothers. They live in “darkness”….in “death”…they are in the “tombs.” But the Lord will come to save them.

(Titus 1:16 KJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

They are the “other sheep” that the Lord has. The “other sheep” are the ones who are currently not following Him and hearing His voice. The “other sheep” are not of the fold that follow Him and love one another. The Lord comes to deliver the “other sheep” fold…… “I must bring and they shall hear my voice:”

(John 10:16 KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

As it says to the “Thessalonians”….which are the books written specifically to the church that loves one another, those that “sleep” in Jesus will God “bring with him.” Even though they “sleep” in darkness….they are the “dead in Christ”…for he has paid for their sins. Whether we “wake or sleep,” we are His.

(1 Th 4:13 KJV) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Only the church that loves one another is currently “alive and remains” in the PRESENCE of the Lord. The Lord will come and “awaken” those who are “dead” in the church so that we may be of ONE fold and have ONE Shepherd. It is the revealed Word of the Lord that will awaken them to righteousness.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Those that love one another are in LIFE. Those that do not love each other are abiding in “death”….they have gone to “sleep” in the “darkness.” But the Lord will bring them again….He will open up their eyes to the Truth so that they may be saved. The “death” is NOT LITERAL….it describes the current condition of MANY in the church…it describes the envy and strife and hatred that has bogged many down into destructive ways and thoughts. The false pastors/preachers are their “prison keepers.”

(1 John 3:14 KJV) We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

The “other sheep” fold shall hear His voice…..and they, the “dead,” shall come forth from their “graves.” Those that will humble themselves at the revealing of the Truth shall be exalted. Those that receive the love of the Truth shall be saved…..the “resurrection of Life.” Those that are in the “graves” are the many who do NOT love one another because of their doctrinal differences. They seek to see who is the “greatest” among them.

(John 5:28 KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

But those who will love “sleep”…..those who will exalt themselves against the Truth….who oppose and contradict the revealed Word of God, will be judged. “As I hear, I judge….” A man will be judged by how he receives the Truth….the revealed Truth in this last day.

30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

The church that loves one another is the “sheep” fold that has followed Him and heard His voice. They are the only church that is “awake”….in Life. They, themselves, have been taught of God to love one another. They have been the “few” over the last 2000 years….while the “many” in church has gone to “sleep.” They are "taught of God"....they hear His voice and follow Him.

(1 Th 4:9 KJV) But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

The church that loves one another are the “children of Light”…the “children of the Day”….they are not of the “night” nor of the “darkness.”

(1 Th 5:5 KJV) Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

They are not “asleep” as the “other sheep”……they are watching and are “sober.”

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Those that are “sleeping” are the many that live in denominations…in envy and strife…in contention. They sleep in the “night.” Those that are “drunken” in the night are the pastors who are given over to covetousness. They revel in their grand church buildings, in their great ministries, in their power over the flock that sleeps, in their riches etc,etc.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Those, WHO ARE OF THE DAY, are those who love one another.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

But Jesus died for us…for our sins…and whether we “wake” (following the doctrine of Christ…to love one another) or “sleep” (in the “death” of envy and strife and hatred for our brothers and sisters)…….We shall LIVE TOGETHER with Him as ONE sheep fold with ONE Shepherd. He comes to deliver His “other sheep,” that have been scattered, from their captors …from their hatred….from their envy and strife…from their denominations…from their alienated minds…from their sins.

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

The church that loves one another is the only church that is “alive and remains” in the presence of the Lord. Those who are currently asleep in “death”…in hatred for one another….are the “dead in Christ.” The Lord comes to bring them out of their “graves” with His voice…..with His revealed Truth…so that they may “awaken” in the spiritual morning….to awaken to righteousness.

(1 Th 4:15 KJV) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Then we shall live as ONE sheep fold….in Life…together with the Lord…..with ONE Shepherd.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The church that is “dead” in sins and trespasses is to “awake” to righteousness…..to having love for one another. He awakens them by His voice…by His knowledge.

(1 Cor 15:34 KJV) Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

The church who is “dead” in envy and strife is to “awaken out of sleep”….to be saved from their sins that they have been “dead” in. They have been dead in trespasses and sins…not loving one another.

(Rom 13:11 KJV) And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

The church that is asleep in the “night” is to awaken in the DAY of salvation. They are to cast off their works of darkness that has bogged them down in ruin…they are to.remove the GRAVE clothes and put on the armor of Light.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

They are to put on the Lord Jesus Christ….they are to follow him and hear his voice. They are to love one another in unfeigned love.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That was vey well done Wheeler I chuckled at the silence part as you know, I had said to you I reccognize someone I can learn from (even as it pertains to you) and more quiet here(then elsewhere) in that respect

The one thing that was quickened to me in your post, in regards to those which are alive and remain, sorta reminds me of what Jesus said too, that it was to the Fathers glory that we bear fruit, as it pertains to fruit that "remains" (and one of fruits of the Spirit is love). Now remaineth (three) faith hope and charity (and charity being the bond of perfectedness) even as we are to "go onto" perfection, bearing fruit unto perfection even as we are perfected in love.

Alive and remain, verses a branch that abideth not in me (which can bear not fruit of itself) except it abide in the Vine, that which abideth not (in me) is as a cast forth branch, which "withereth" reminds me even of what Jude speaks those in your feasts of "charity". Not alive but rather twice dead (having fruit that "withereth" even as Jesus said) and so now "without fruit" whose end is to be burned.... which is again in accord with what Jesus said (and elsewhere) pertaining to that which beareth thorns and thistles, being nigh to a curse ....whereas when Jesus cursed a tree He said, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.

Jude 1:12... trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots .

Mat 15:13 Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Because it says here people are as trees of righteousness (His planting)

Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

His planting that he might be glorified (which pertains to the fruit) the fruit of righteousness (we are filled with which is by Christ Jesus)

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain:

Whereas it is by the fruit He is glorified (even that our fruit remain, not withereth)

John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Ephes 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

 

[Chickapee]

wow!! great stuff Wheeler , Love how you are highlighting certain words makes them more clear

and you can see better ... as for sleep seeing death and darkness are about the same results .... awesome !!!


That was good connections Fire !! you guys help feed the sheep ,

ya know!

What the Lord asked Peter to do if you LOVE HIM / THE LORD JESUS

Its ALL for the Lords glory
I sure do praise Him right now , for all His goodness ....C

Made me think of this verse too Fire ,, how this man saw trees walking / men

Mark 8 22And he cometh to Bethsaida;/meaning ''house of fish ''or house of fruits ''!!

Bethsaida (Hitchcock's Bible Names) :: Bible Tools

and they bring a blind man unto him,

and besought him to touch him.

23And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town;

and when he had spit on his eyes,

and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25After that he put his hands again upon his eyes,


and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

26And he sent him away to his house, saying,

Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

a few things in these few verses about Jesus ,

taking the blind man by the hand and leading him out of town

than spit in his eyes , this part when he looked up he saw men as trees walking ,

but when Jesus made him look up he saw clearly

that was amazing to me

maybe its to due with the way we think / see things and How Jesus helps us to see clear ,he could not see clear on his own understanding
and Jesus sent him home , not to go into town and not tell anyone

Jesus knew thier hearts that may be why that was done ? Do you see anything in this that could help
make it more clearer yet ?

 

[Fireinfolding]

wow!! great stuff Wheeler , Love how you are highlighting certain words makes them more clear

and you can see better ... as for sleep seeing death and darkness are about the same results .... awesome !!!


That was good connections Fire !! you guys help feed the sheep ,

ya know!

What the Lord asked Peter to do if you LOVE HIM / THE LORD JESUS

Its ALL for the Lords glory
I sure do praise Him right now , for all His goodness ....C

Made me think of this verse too Fire ,, how this man saw trees walking / men

Mark 8 22And he cometh to Bethsaida;/meaning ''house of fish ''or house of fruits ''!!

Bethsaida (Hitchcock's Bible Names) :: Bible Tools

and they bring a blind man unto him,

and besought him to touch him.

23And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town;

and when he had spit on his eyes,

and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
24And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25After that he put his hands again upon his eyes,


and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

26And he sent him away to his house, saying,

Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

a few things in these few verses about Jesus ,

taking the blind man by the hand and leading him out of town

than spit in his eyes , this part when he looked up he saw men as trees walking ,

but when Jesus made him look up he saw clearly

that was amazing to me

maybe its to due with the way we think / see things and How Jesus helps us to see clear ,he could not see clear on his own understanding
and Jesus sent him home , not to go into town and not tell anyone

Jesus knew thier hearts that may be why that was done ? Do you see anything in this that could help
make it more clearer yet ?

You know Chicapee, I always wonder about that too, cant say I know sis

But at least I know Im not alone in wondering about it kiddo

Hugs for you

 

[Chickapee]

I still wonder about many things Sis ...

'' to look up '' g 308 same word'' to recieve sight'' Mat 11:5The blind receive their sight 308 ,

and the lame walk , the lepers are cleansed ,

and the deaf hear , the dead are raised up , and the poor have the gospel preached to them .

dont want to change the focus ...

but here is a few when looking at the word ''clearly '' the word is used once in Mark 8
meaning at a distance and clearly

the meaning does apply to the Lord helping us to SEE HIM Gods will and not our own ways

Gods righteousness sending the Son to free us from sin and guilt
Clear; Clearness (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia) :: Bible Tools

Jhn 9:39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;

and that they which see might be made blind.

Jhn 9:41Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say,

We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

2Pe 1:9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off,

and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



seeing afar off to see dimly, see only what is near



possible the spirit of fear of the Lord which is the beginning of Wisdom

2Cr 7:1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved,

let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Pro 9:10The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.

just looking a bit .. hugs C

 

[Wheeler]

Hi Chickapee!

So glad that you are here....I do miss you when you are absent.

I'm not sure...but I keep thinking about men being "trees of righteousness."

(Isa 61:3 KJV) To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

When man finally "sees" clearly with the healing of the Lord, then he can be a "tree of righteousness"...he then can lead others to righteousness because now he can see the specks in others eyes....to be able to remove them. We can then "see" to "walk" in the straight and narrow...in true righteousness.

(Mark 8:24 KJV) And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Perhaps this is saying to not go into Babylon...the "town" that we are to flee from??? Don't know.

26 And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

 

[Wheeler]

Fireinfolding.....definitely agree with those who are remaining in the vine produce fruits of righteousness. Alive and remaining....Love is the greatest thing!





The point of the Lord’s supper is to love each other….that is what we are to do in remembrance of his sacrifice for us.

(Luke 22:17 KJV) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.

But yet, as we see, many do not come together for the better. Many are sick and asleep because of strife. The disciples show us in the Spirit this very thing…..there was STRIFE among them about who of them should be accounted the greatest? Who is the correct church? Who has the correct doctrines and do the correct practices? Who is the richest church? Who is the biggest church? No love is shown for the brothers when there is this envy and strife among us. Of course, the disciples’ striving at the Lord’s table is to teach us a lesson.

24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.

Those that lead the church into envy and strife exercise lordship over those who listen to them…they live as kings and do not serve the flock. They are called “benefactors”….. “ workers of good”….they show themselves as ministers of righteousness. They do “wonderful works” in His name….and yet they do not follow the royal law….they do not live it…they do not love one another.

25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

The church has been in the “wilderness” of the temptation of Satan and his ministers who pose as preachers of righteousness. The church has been wandering in the “wilderness” of “Sinai” just like the children of Israel typified. It is no coincidence that “Sinai” means “HATRED.” It has been a time of testing….a time of temptation by false prophets. MANY have entered into temptation….they have listened to the “benefactors”….the supposed “workers of good.” But yet their words have lead many down the wide path of ruin….they have lead many into envy and strife….hatred. Our Lord has forgiven us for these things because of our ignorance. He is the perfect sacrifice who was also tempted in the wilderness by Satan but was WITHOUT sin. The many have been deceived by false prophets…..who have lead many down the path to living in “malice and envy” and hatefulness…hating one another.

(Titus 3:3 KJV) For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

But the kindness and love of God our Savior appears so that we may wake out of our sleep and put on Christ….to put on unfeigned love for one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Our “works of righteousness” will not save us from this “death”….but His mercy saves us…His grace saves us from ungodly men who promote envy and strife in the church. He will regenerate those who have fallen victim to the temptation of the “benefactors.”

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

He has paid for our sins…..he was “numbered with the transgressors” and makes intercession for those who have entered into temptation.

(Isa 53:12 KJV) Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

We, the churches, have been spiritually wandering in the “wilderness of Sinai”…… “Sinai” meaning “hatred”….wandering in the wilderness of envy and strife brought on by false prophets who love to lord their power over the poor in spirit . It is no coincidence that God had Moses “NUMBER” the children of Israel for WAR.

(Num 1:1 KJV) And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, in the tabernacle of the congregation, on the first day of the second month, in the second year after they were come out of the land of Egypt, saying,

In the “wilderness of Sinai,” every male was “numbered” by their “polls.” The Hebrew word for “polls” here is “gulgoleth”….which is NO coincidence. “Gulgoleth” means “SKULL”…..as in GOLGOTHA….the place where the Lord was crucified….the place where he was NUMBERED with the transgressors. He was numbered with those who are currently living in “death”…in envy and strife and hating one another….in WAR with each other.

2 Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls;
3 From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.

Only the tribe of Levi was NOT numbered among those for WAR. They represent the church that loves one another.

(Num 1:49 KJV) Only thou shalt not number the tribe of Levi, neither take the sum of them among the children of Israel:

(Num 1:47 KJV) But the Levites after the tribe of their fathers were not numbered among them.

“Levi” means “attached.” They are attached to the Lord…the vine. They “Keep the charge”= they keep WATCH….they are AWAKE….they LOVE ONE ANOTHER while the others have fallen to SLEEP in hatred…in temptation. They keep the “tabernacle of testimony.”

(Num 1:53 KJV) But the Levites shall pitch round about the tabernacle of testimony, that there be no wrath upon the congregation of the children of Israel: and the Levites shall keep the charge of the tabernacle of testimony.

They have KEPT His Word….the “tabernacle of testimony”….they have kept the “new commandment” to love one another. They have not denied His name with wicked works that promote envy and strife.

(Rev 3:8 KJV) I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

They have kept the Word of His patience….and so they have been kept from the hour of temptation by the false prophets. They follow Him and hear His voice…they do not listen to the voice of strangers. They are “attached” to the Lord and are not NUMBERED with the transgressors…those living in hatred.

(Rev 3:10 KJV) Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

They have been the “branches” that have been “attached” to the vine….they remain in the Lord and bear fruits of the Spirit.

(John 15:5 KJV) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

The “Levites”…those who are “attached” to the Lord by loving one another, are His. They have been the branches "attached" to the vine. They follow Him and hear His voice. They are in the presence of the Lord. They “keep the watch of the tabernacle of the testimony”…they love one another and are the only church is alive and remains while the rest have fallen asleep in war...in hatred for one another.

(Num 3:12 KJV) And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel instead of all the firstborn that openeth the matrix among the children of Israel: therefore the Levites shall be mine;

As it says in 1st Thessalonians….the books written especially for the church who is awake and loving one another, they are currently in the presence of the Lord…they are “attached” to the vine.

(1 Th 2:19 KJV) For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

As Jesus was in the wilderness and tempted of Satan, so has the church been living in a “wilderness” time….a “day of adversity”…a time of testing….an hour of temptation. As Jesus was with “wild beasts,” so also has the church been with false prophets….false teachers of righteousness….who are the “wild beasts” of our “wilderness.”

(Mark 1:12 KJV) And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.

They are the “natural brute beasts” that are made to be taken…to utterly perish in their own corruption…if they do not repent in the time of salvation from our sins…our hatred…our missing the mark of the Truth.

(2 Pet 2:12 KJV) But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

(Jude 1:10 KJV) But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

The churches have been in the “wilderness” of envy and strife…. many falling into temptation. Jesus was faced with the same temptation but was without sin…..while the many in the church are dead in sins and trespasses.

(Mat 4:1 KJV) Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.

Many have taken the “stone” of the Scriptures and made it to support their own doctrines and commandments of men. They have turned it into the “bread of adversity”…the bread of wickedness. They teach it literally which brings divisions and hatred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Our God comes with the living Word….He interprets it for us with His knowledge and wisdom…not man’s word.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Many have taught things in error…they have made others stumble over stones…they have cast down many into “death”…into darkness…into prison.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Many have entered into the temptation to pursue the vain glory of men….to build great religious works in His name…yet, they do these things out of the covetousness of their hearts. They build great things in order to “make a name for themselves” upon the earth. They start “churches”….they build denominations. They want others to see them as great men of God by their wonderful works….by their great ministries…their great riches….their great church buildings…their great books, cds, movies, etc, etc. They think that “gain is godliness”…and their greatness in this world is an approval of God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and showeth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

But yet, Jesus is our sacrifice for our sins….our ignorance…our hatred….our covetousness. He is the only one WITHOUT sin….the perfect sacrifice.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Chickapee!

So glad that you are here....I do miss you when you are absent.

I'm not sure...but I keep thinking about men being "trees of righteousness."

(Isa 61:3 KJV) To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

When man finally "sees" clearly with the healing of the Lord, then he can be a "tree of righteousness"...he then can lead others to righteousness because now he can see the specks in others eyes....to be able to remove them. We can then "see" to "walk" in the straight and narrow...in true righteousness.

(Mark 8:24 KJV) And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Perhaps this is saying to not go into Babylon...the "town" that we are to flee from??? Don't know.

26 And he sent him away to his house, saying, Neither go into the town, nor tell it to any in the town.

Hi Wheeler , glad you are still sharing in His Word and Spirit !
I do agree with that because any plant the Father has not planted will be rooted up

only GOD IS Good and only plants righteousness ! and the growth in perfection and love is by the Lords hand / power

being carried off to Babylon whould be as a prison , for their own good to KNOW that the harsh taskmasters to be humbled and chastened of the Lord and than be ready and pliable in Gods hands and will Jer 29:4Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;

the whole chapter but this verse seems to sum up what I am trying to say also here ..
Jer 29:12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.


thanks needed this today ... love in Christ and His blessings C ....

 

[Chickapee]

great verses Fire and Wheeler
Its good to search them out and examine them
to know that Love is the greatest things we can do to prove Gods promises are Truth and peace He gives us within and towards one another and share in His love and grace and its is God whom keeps his promises to us to help us as we ask and pray to Him for them ..
for His Glory and praise
and honor for always


Now the God of peace,


that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,


that great shepherd of the sheep,

through the blood of the everlasting covenant, ..
Hbr 13:21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight,


through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

I am discovering just how much is in the Hebrews chapters and how wonderful Gods Holy covenant and Spirit really are ...