Rahab Lied

[PollyAnna]

Why is it ok that Rahab lied?

Joshua 2:1-7

I've always been taught that lying is a sin. Is it not a sin? Is it ok to lie if it's for a good cause, or will benefit you? Rahab was favored by the spies b/c she hid them and lied for them. Will God favor us if we lie? Or is lying something that needs to be repented of and forgiven? If so, then why did God spare her?

My pastor spoke on this a few weeks ago in his message. I don't remember much of the message b/c as soon as he read the scriptures about Rahab my mind was stuck on "why is it ok that she lied? why is it ok that she lied? Yes, her life was spared and she was honored...but SHE LIED!" over and over. LOL

My thinking is that if she had such faith and knew that God had given the land over to the spies, then when the king's messengers came why didn't she just say straight up "yep, they're here. I won't bring them out b/c God has given the land to them." Or whatever she felt God was leading her to say/do. Wouldn't true faith in God be trusting him to spare your life through the TRUTH? Surely he didn't say lie. So why did she and why was she honored for it?

Thoughts?

 

[Onesiphorus]

I've always been taught that lying is a sin. Is it not a sin?

Were the people hiding Jews sinning when the SS came and asked if they had any Jews and they told them no? Is lying to Satan a sin?

 

[PollyAnna]

That's what I"M asking.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

Lying is wrong, but in all things we must weigh greater and lesser concerns. If lying is certain to save lives from murderous people, lying is still wrong, but I am willing to pay the moral cost. Lying for a good cause does not make lying right. If something is a morally bad thing, it does not being morally good if done for the sake of a good end. Nevertheless, sometimes the price is one which should be paid.

Secondly, people on "God's side" don't necessarily do good things all the time in order to be honored. See David. He screwed up big time, and yet who has not heard praises of King David? We must separate the reason for their honor with the things which they may have done wrong.

A similar case can be made that Samuel lied to Saul on his way to annoint David. Samuel did not tell Saul, "I'm going to annoint someone else king behind your back. Chill out dude!" And yet because of Samuel's deception, his own life was secured from Saul and David was annointed. But God's word says that we should let our yesses be yes.

1. Morally wrong things are always wrong. NO exceptions.
2. Sometimes other considerations force us to risk doing what is not good, like lying, for saving someone.
3. Even if wrong things are done for a good cause, we still pay the cost.

 

[Buzz Dixon]

It is wrong to bare a false witness or to knowingly swear falsely to something. This implies a situation where justice is being sought and the deposed knowingly through commission or omission may perpetuate an injustice.

Killing innocent people is never justice, hence it is okay to lie or to refrain from revealing information if it will prevent innocent people from being killed.

 

[seebs]

See also Exodus 1.

I think Buzz's analysis is correct. It is not necessarily lying that is the sin, although it is a sin so often that it is probably best to reject it out of hand.

 

[rnmomof7]

Rahab the Harlot is in the line of Jesus, she is listed in the chapter of faith, her act is called an act of faith .

Why would any of us be surprised that she is so honored. Look at the sinners that God loved. The murders Moses and David, the man that persecuted the New church Paul.

The bible does not hide the warts on its heros, that is one way we know it is true.

Think of the line of Jesus, includes Jews and Gentiles, Royalty and the ordinary and sinners all .
Remember the murderer David , and the harlot Rahab and the woman that was an adulteress Bathsheba are contributers to the bloodline of Jesus.

This is the Jesus , God incarnate from the mixed bloodline - royal and impoverished gleaners, Jew and Gentile all holding the same need. A savior.

All of us are sinners save by grace , why should we expect more of the heros of the bible?

 

[Ave Maria]

I think that if by lying, you bring about a good thing, it probably isn't a sin. It's similar to how the people during World War II may have lied to the Nazis who came to their door asking if they had any Jews in their house. I'm sure there were some who lied to the Nazis and said there were no Jews in their house when in fact, there were.

 

[Carrye]

I think that if by lying, you bring about a good thing, it probably isn't a sin.

But we must remember that we can never use evil to bring about good. Machiavelli would tell you that the ends justify the means; Christ would tell you otherwise.

 

[PollyAnna]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I appreciate your willingness to help me "learn" the why behind these events without shoving my face in the dirt and making me feel stupid for not knowing.

I'm still not fully getting this and I'm still left with the question

"Wouldn't true faith in God be trusting him to spare your life and the lives of the ones he's hiding through the TRUTH?" Wouldn't it have been a better testament to the king's men if their path was blocked trying to get to the spies in a way that they would KNOW it was God?

As children, our parents put such emphasis on not lying, even punishing us for it if we did. And as parents so many of us also put a huge emphasis on not lying. How are we to justify this to our children?

I understand the example of David and his "sins" but didnt' he also come before God and repent?

Sorry if I'm being a pain. I'm not a good debater, never have been, never will be. But I have questions and the more I try to study the bible the more I understand why so many believe the bible to be contradictory...

 

[Buzz Dixon]

Well, the three wise men lied in that they promised Herrod they'd come back and tell him where to find Jesus, but when warned in a dream they opted to go home by another route.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

"Wouldn't true faith in God be trusting him to spare your life and the lives of the ones he's hiding through the TRUTH?" Wouldn't it have been a better testament to the king's men if their path was blocked trying to get to the spies in a way that they would KNOW it was God?

Yes it would. An example of what could have been is shown in Abraham and Issac's life. Both had beautiful wives, yet both had created lies (or half-lies) about their relationship. If they had spoken the truth, would not God have protected them? Of course. But men of faith do not always do what is best. Yet God did not smite them for not trusting him. God allowed them to do what they wanted even though it was not the best thing that could have been.


As children, our parents put such emphasis on not lying, even punishing us for it if we did. And as parents so many of us also put a huge emphasis on not lying. How are we to justify this to our children?

Because in lying you destroy yourself slowly but surely. Lies are a betrayal of a relationship. Lies distort reality and carry the danger that you yourself may eventually come to believe the lie. Much of the time, people who lie do so for bad reasons: to cover up what they had done wrong or to spread malicious slander. Lies make further lies easier and so the spirit weakens.

How do we justify the glorification of someone who lied? We don't. We justify what they did that was good. The lies we still must denounce.

 

[seebs]

I don't think any simple claim that lies are wrong can survive a reading of Exodus 1. There is obviously more to it than a simple yes/no answer.

 

[Eph. 3:20]

Unfortunately, most of us do not view morality (what is sin vs. what is not sin) as God views morality. For most of us it is the attempt to avoid wrong behaviour and to practice right behaviour. While that is good in itself it is not the primary focus of God's concern. God is most concerned about why we do what we do. We are always focused on the external aspect of our actions, but God focuses on the internal reasons behind those actions. God looks at the source of morality, we look at the result. God looks at the source, we look at the symptom. God looks at the beginning, we always look at the end. And for these reasons we are constantly misjudging people as to whther they are good or bad, moral or immoral, and we constantly make wrong decisions about people because we are always looking at the wrong end of the concept of morality. That is why we are not to judge others, we do not have the capability to look inside their hearts. Judgment is left to God alone.

Our question is always, "Did you obey or disobey?" and "What did you do?" Our emphasis is external. His emphasis is internal. He wants to know what motivated our actions. And depending on what He finds in our heart, God may either forgive or condemn the person. This is not to say that deeds do not count with God. But deeds and external actions are secondary to the internal motivation that caused the deeds. This is why Jesus came against the Pharisees in Scripture in spite of their apparent outward goodness and righteousness. Their appearance was one of holiness and a perception that they were the true law-keepers, but Jesus said inside they are corrupt and full of dead mans bones. Jesus condemns them because they are full of "hypocrisy and lawlessness,"(Matt. 23:27,28). God may look at what we would classify as a very good deed, and yet pronounce that person who did it unrighteous, and completley reject the "good" deed because of his wrong heart, (1 Cor. 13:1-3). And we may know someone who commits a very bad deed, and we condemn that person as "evil" while God looks at the same person and the same deed, but primarily at the heart of that person and proclaims him righteous.

Until we fully understand this principle we will never understand God's perspective on morality, ethics and holiness. Until we understand this we will continue to bring false standards of judgment upon ourselves and others. We must weigh Christ's commandments of love for God and love for others in all that we do and sometimes this might have a external appearance of law breaking. We are not judged now on a law based system of right and wrong. We are now judged on a love based system. It is this love for God and love for others that directs all of our actions.

Hope this helps.

Eph. 3:20

 

[PollyAnna]

What great explanations! TY all! I am learning once again how awesome and merciful God is. Thanks Seebs for the exodus 1 reference, that helped. Eph 3:20, your explanation was eerily similar to what Joyce Meyer spoke on this morning on her program. Funny how that works sometimes. I'd forgotten the part about how God looks at the heart over the deed. TY all for the reminder. All is well in my brain again. Now I suppose I should get the tape of that message my pastor spoke on so I know what he was talking about.

 

[Talmidah]

Preservation of life always takes precedence.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Why is it ok that Rahab lied?

Joshua 2:1-7

I've always been taught that lying is a sin. Is it not a sin? Is it ok to lie if it's for a good cause, or will benefit you? Rahab was favored by the spies b/c she hid them and lied for them. Will God favor us if we lie? Or is lying something that needs to be repented of and forgiven? If so, then why did God spare her?

Exodus 20
16 "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

'Tis a slope that can be slippery indeed, but intentions count. Rahab did not bear false witness against anybody.

 

[rocklife]

Why is it ok that Rahab lied?

Joshua 2:1-7

I've always been taught that lying is a sin. Is it not a sin? Is it ok to lie if it's for a good cause, or will benefit you? Rahab was favored by the spies b/c she hid them and lied for them. Will God favor us if we lie? Or is lying something that needs to be repented of and forgiven? If so, then why did God spare her?

My pastor spoke on this a few weeks ago in his message. I don't remember much of the message b/c as soon as he read the scriptures about Rahab my mind was stuck on "why is it ok that she lied? why is it ok that she lied? Yes, her life was spared and she was honored...but SHE LIED!" over and over. LOL

My thinking is that if she had such faith and knew that God had given the land over to the spies, then when the king's messengers came why didn't she just say straight up "yep, they're here. I won't bring them out b/c God has given the land to them." Or whatever she felt God was leading her to say/do. Wouldn't true faith in God be trusting him to spare your life through the TRUTH? Surely he didn't say lie. So why did she and why was she honored for it?

Thoughts?

she was not of Abraham's descendents, as far as I know. But she heard how powerful God was with Moses and Joshua and parting the sea. She was not with those who were given the ten commandments. She lived in a wicked city and she herself was a prostitute.

The bible mentions in Romans 4:15 "where there is no law there is no transgression." At that time, Rahab and her people were not given the commandments and laws of God, Joshua and Moses and those people were. Rahab saw them coming, and did her best to seek salvation. God looks at the heart. A prostitute did the best she could. And God showed mercy, even letting her be part of Jesus' line.