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Radioactive dating

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by dad, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    Radioactivity is something that exists in the present world. We observe the rate at which various things decay. I have not seen any evidence yet that radioactivity even existed in the distant past on earth. Anyone have any? It seems like the idea in science is to assume we had a present nature along with all our laws and forces we have today, and then view isotopes and everything else accordingly.

    Is there any proof or evidence independent of this belief at all?

    As people would know if they are familiar with the issue, all methods of radioactive decay based dating basically rely on the same one belief and assumption. It seems like it it settled, so calling in for final arguments before the gavel goes down.



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  2. devin553344

    devin553344 My Brain's Offline But My Heart Isn't

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    We I would look to Cosmology and Astronomy. I believe they may have evidence of radioactive decay as observed in distant stars and galaxies? They are light years away and may be able to trace it back further then earth record? Maybe. Maybe not.
     
  3. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    OK, so we have a post from someone who believes. The OP did mention 'on earth'. As for the distant universe, the light from it is only seen here in the earth or solar system, and area. How long it takes to get here is not known because we do not know that time is the same out there as it is here. Once the light is here, it operates by our rules, so I am not sure we would look at this light and try to assume the rules it operates under apply in deep space.

    In the Lord's prayer it mentions how we pray that one day things will be the same here as it is in heaven. In somewhat the same way, we could not look at how things now are on earth and assume that is how they are in heaven.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  4. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Radioactive dating is useless until and unless one applies time dilation corrections.

    God "stretched out the heavens", scientists like to call this expansion.... As velocity increases, clocks and decay rates slow. So as one calculates backwards in time, clocks and decay rates increase. This is an exponential calculation since it is claimed the expansion occurred faster than c and has only continued to increase.....

    But of course everyone will ignore the science they claim to follow and refuse to correct for time dilation, since it destroys their belief in billions of years......
     
  5. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    OK so we have someone who seemingly agrees we cannot use correlations from deep space for radioactive decay timings due to issues with the nature of time.
     
  6. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    You can't even use earth radioactivity as the earth is undergoing this expansion as well.... unless one applies time dilation corrections.....
     
  7. devin553344

    devin553344 My Brain's Offline But My Heart Isn't

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    Well I'm not sure I believe. But I see no reason why it couldn't have existed long ago. Aren't meteorites radioactive and some are capable of creating nuclear type explosions when they strike the earth even if they're not radioactive. And that would create radioactive material that settles into the soil. The destructions of Sodom and Gomorrah are said to have been destroyed by one such massive explosion. And that's quite some time ago. Here's the recent news on that discovery:

    Bible’s Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by 10 MEGATON asteroid explosion, archaeologists say.

    Also some dinosaurs are said to have been destroyed by a meteorite impact at some point. That would have spread radioactive waste all over the earth and settled into the soils. That explosion was much larger than Sodom and Gomorrah I believe:

    Asteroid Impact That Killed the Dinosaurs: New Evidence
     
  8. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Yet none of those who use such events for dating, calculate time dilation in a universe that is "increasing" in acceleration..... I.e. they are using the rate of today's slow clocks and decay rates to calculate into the past when the decay rates must have been faster per General Relativity itself... I.e clocks and decays rates slow as velocity increases... so as velocity decreases backwards in time, clocks and decay rates increase......

    .....but, using today's slower clocks and constant decay rate would give the wrong answer when decay happened faster and is not constant.....

    Proceedings of the Fifth Symposium on Frequency Standards and Metrology, 1995Edit

    History of the Light-Speed Debate: Upheaval in Physics: – Helen D. Setterfield – Koinonia House
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
  9. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    If any asteroids were used by God in the operation at Sodom, they would have arrived precisely at the right place and time, and have been sent and ordered by God.

    No one is questioning how atoms work, and react and behave and decay etc now in this present nature. The issue is whether anyone can prove that there also was this same nature along with decay or whatever also in the far past. Sodom was post Babel, post flood, post Peleg, so it was in this nature.
    The so called meteor impact could have been the flood year events such as a fountain of the deep erupting violently upward...not down from space. You would need to support in detail the claim it was certainly an asteroid from above. Not that I care either way.
    From your link

    "New findings using high-precision radiometric dating analysis of debris..."

    It all rests on the radioactive dates! The thread is about showing how the same nature used to exist, so that radioactivity could have even existed at all. One can't just cite the so called dates as if they were anything but religion.
     
  10. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    The bible indicates, as best many can tell, that it was aprox 4400 or so years ago the flood happened. Probably this event was near the time the KT layer was laid down. Science says that was 65 or 70 millions years ago. So the disparity is between 4400 and 70 million. I don't think some time dilation effect in skewing dates would explain this.
     
  11. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Sure it would. If expansion is faster than c then the corrections must be made exponentially.....

    The KT layer has nothing to do with the extinction of the dinosaurs. Outside of paleontology almost no one knows of the three meter gap problem. I.e that in the three meters before the KT boundary, almost no fossils can be found. This according to science represents millions of years. So even if we assumed their dating correct (which it isn't being they do not adjust for time dilation) the dinosaurs would have went extinct millions of years before the meteor struck. The KT layer is simply their excuse to try to avoid the fact that they died in a flood of worldwide proportions....
     
  12. dad

    dad On the winning side

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    If the dinos dies before the flood, and the KT layer was around the time of the flod, then that is correct. But that would leave dinos on the bottom side of the KT!
    You seem to have a point, that the flood is denied and ignored. There is of course a layer found worldwide that has iridium in it at high levels compared to usual sediments. This could be associated with the flood.
     
  13. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Or an actual meteor impact after the flood, which is why no fossils are found in the layers leading up to the KT boundary. The flood had already happened and the meteor impact did little harm at all except spread some dust around......
     
  14. Colter

    Colter Member

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  15. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I am no authority on the subject, but it seems believed that the rate of decay is intrinsic to the material in question, not on other forces acting upon it.

    That is why I too have my doubts. Many of the dates I have heard called forth are based on supposed time of formation. How, then can one know how old a rock is? Was it not sand (or whatever) first? How do we know we are not dating the sand?

    I don't know. Maybe somebody else knows. I have never seen the question answered satisfactorily. Usually I just get screams of "ignorance" and "there is peer reviewed science" etc.
     
  16. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    but those rocks in space underwent the same slowing of decay rates during expansion as earth rocks did. So their dating would be just as flawed without adjusting for time dilation in a universe increasing in acceleration since acceleration slows decay rates. but they are not adjusting for faster decay rates in the past when velocity was less, instead still using the rate we measure today as a constant backwards calculation when rates must have been faster..... their decay rates can not be used either without time dilation corrections....
     
  17. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Their is peer reviewed science..... that clocks and decay rates slow under acceleration... that we live in a universe increasing in acceleration..... then those same people refuse to apply time dilation corrections, even when their own science demands it...... So the rate of decay IS in question........ not what we observe now, but as one goes backwards in time to when the acceleration was less, and hence the decay rate must have been faster.

    This gives an appearance of vast age because they are using the slower rates of today to calculate backwards to when the rates would have been exponentially faster.....
     
  18. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Oh and Dad, think about it. If decay rates change as do clocks and rulers, then so would the orbit around the sun as it also changed in the past. yet we use the time factor of what we call a year to calculate back into the past when the length of their year would not be the same as the length of our year. So you can't even really say the Flood happened about 4,400 years ago, because their days are not the same length as our days.

    We had to change our calendar to 365 days because what to us is just a couple thousand years was a 360 day year to them.....

    This is also why all life is smaller now. the increase in velocity (hence energy and relativistic mass) has made it impossible for dinosaur sized land animals to exist any longer.
     
  19. Colter

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    Asteroids coming in date the same as asteroids already on earth.
     
  20. Justatruthseeker

    Justatruthseeker Newbie Supporter

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    Why wouldn't they? They undergo the same time dilation effects as the entire galaxy does....... But without applying time dilation corrections for our entire galaxies increase in velocity..... all dating is useless and unreliable....

    Is it just the twin that ages slower, or his entire rocket ship and everything in it?????
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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