Racism?

[suzybeezy]

I received this really odd email today and it got me thinking this would make for an interesting discussion here.

Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld gave this defense in his speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points...

Someone finally said it.. How many are actually paying attention to this? There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.. And then there are just Americans - who makes up that group? Just White Americans?

There is the United Negro College Fund. There is Martin Luther King Day.

There is Black History Month. There is Cesar Chavez Day.

There is Yom Hashoah. There is Ma'uled Al-Nabi.

There is the NAACP. There is BET... If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists.. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.

If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.

A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.

If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US, yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.

You are proud to be African American, Asian American, Mexican America, etc, and you're not afraid to announce it. But if caucasians announced their pride, you would call them racists.

Where does pride in one's ethnic make up cross the line into racism? When does race advancement or exclusionary practices by organizations based on any race, cross the line into racism?

 

[Washington]

Where does pride in one's ethnic make up cross the line into racism? When does race advancement or exclusionary practices by organizations based on any race, cross the line into racism?

When the one with the pride or the notion to celebrate it happens to be a member of the majority.

 

[nolongerhome]

When the one with the pride or the notion to celebrate it happens to be a member of the majority.

While I think your statement is probably tongue in cheek, that does seem to be the way many see it - only the majority can be racist.

That strikes me as being woefully inadequate and clearly false. Members of minorities can clearly be as racist as members of majorities.

I think "intent" has to be considered. Affirmative action policies are by nature racist and sexist - they discriminate between people based on those characteristics. That doesn't mean they are bad, though.

So maybe what we need to do is to use "racism" in a non-pejorative sense. It doesn't have to be pejorative. There are often good reasons to treat different people differently. What we need to ask, on a case by case basis, is why people are being treated differently because of their race (or any other characteristic). In some cases their will be a good reason, in others there won't be, and that is where we can start to differentiate between what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[wanderingone]

When does "pride" become racist? It doesn't.

But a hint about where someone's head is at is when they think a memorial holiday for MLK means we can celebrate a "black" person of historical importance but not a "white" person of historical importance- apparently they somehow forget Lincoln's birthday and Washington's birthday. Or that they don't do enough research to know that public colleges that are primarily "black" have created scholarships designed to diversify those schools by awarding them to "white" students, or forgets that in cities all over the US we have things like St. Patrick's day parades, Oktoberfests, Columbus Day Parades, celtic festivals, tartan days etc... etc.. etc...

 

[Braunwyn]

I received this really odd email today and it got me thinking this would make for an interesting discussion here.



Where does pride in one's ethnic make up cross the line into racism? When does race advancement or exclusionary practices by organizations based on any race, cross the line into racism?

Well, his statements here are not completely correct.

1. There are Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans, etc with their holidays, Little Italy's, clubs, etc.

2. There are specific college funds for these groups. As an Italian, I applied for Italian American scholarships. African Americans could not qualify and this group is not deemed racist.

 

[Braunwyn]

When does "pride" become racist? It doesn't.

But a hint about where someone's head is at is when they think a memorial holiday for MLK means we can celebrate a "black" person of historical importance but not a "white" person of historical importance- apparently they somehow forget Lincoln's birthday and Washington's birthday. Or that they don't do enough research to know that public colleges that are primarily "black" have created scholarships designed to diversify those schools by awarding them to "white" students, or forgets that in cities all over the US we have things like St. Patrick's day parades, Oktoberfests, Columbus Day Parades, celtic festivals, tartan days etc... etc.. etc...

It is pretty amazing how this type of stuff goes right over some people's heads. It's like not being able to see the nose on your own face. Still, tho, if he's gonna get up there in front of an audience, he might as well clue himself in prior to the show.

 

[Rotator]

gave this defense in his speech in court

Huh? Is it illegal to go on a racist rant? Did he get sued?

 

[clarksided]

Those proclaimed black colleges aren't really all black...they have to accept white students who can get in on merit.

Further, plenty of white people proclaim ethnic pride without cries of racism. Similar to what another poster said, it's just that they choose to celebrate things like their Irish or Scottish or Russian heritage rather than the white race as a whole.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

I think this is not factual : snopes.com: Michael Richards - Proud to be White
According to this article, he never made a court appearance, and his name was only attached to this email after he had his racist rant.

 

[Jade Margery]

Did you know white people can get scholarships from the NAACP? S'true. They can't deny them except based on merit, or that would be racist. A friend of our family got one, about ten years ago I think. Applications don't make stating your race mandatory. It just usually never occurs to a white kid to ask for one from them.

 

[Axioma]

"Boo hoo, there is no white history month..."

THERE ARE ELEVEN WHITE HISTORY MONTHS.

 

[Verv]

I received this really odd email today and it got me thinking this would make for an interesting discussion here.



Where does pride in one's ethnic make up cross the line into racism? When does race advancement or exclusionary practices by organizations based on any race, cross the line into racism?

It is onlyw rong when you begin lumping negatives onto other races and not seeing people as individuals but viewing them as members of a race.

"Boo hoo, there is no white history month..."

THERE ARE ELEVEN WHITE HISTORY MONTHS.

... Because in those months white history truly is exclusively studied?

America is and traditionally has been majority white; thus the majority of figures within the society are white; before that, the culture of the Americans was European...

That's cool. I guess.

But... I do not know?

I seem to remember reading about the Native Americans regardless of what month it was.

I think it is good to comemorate the struggles of blacks...

I support black history month but I just find your words to be... Inaccurate and not understanding of the whole situation.

 

[Bombila]

When does "pride" become racist? It doesn't.

But a hint about where someone's head is at is when they think a memorial holiday for MLK means we can celebrate a "black" person of historical importance but not a "white" person of historical importance- apparently they somehow forget Lincoln's birthday and Washington's birthday. Or that they don't do enough research to know that public colleges that are primarily "black" have created scholarships designed to diversify those schools by awarding them to "white" students, or forgets that in cities all over the US we have things like St. Patrick's day parades, Oktoberfests, Columbus Day Parades, celtic festivals, tartan days etc... etc.. etc...

This deserves re-posting.

People celebrate pride in their heritage. There are Greek festivals, Celtic festivals, Indian festivals, etc., here that often as not go on for a week. Black people aren't whining about people celebrating their Irish or Greek ancestry, regardless of the whiteness of those two ethnic groups. How do those white people that complain about such things as Black History Month not remember all these celebrations of ethnic white heritage?

 

[keith99]

Well, his statements here are not completely correct.

1. There are Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans, etc with their holidays, Little Italy's, clubs, etc.

2. There are specific college funds for these groups. As an Italian, I applied for Italian American scholarships. African Americans could not qualify and this group is not deemed racist.

For my after reading your post a light went on.

These are all white, yet not thought of as racist. The thing is they are defined by who they include, not who they exclude. The words in an the name don't make the difference. It is intent. Typically the intent of 'white' groups is to exclude all the darker skinned people.

Thinking about it I wonder how these groups feel about mixes? Is half Irish half Japaneese good enough? I have a feeling for the clubs it is fine and that it also is for many (but not all) of the scholarships. I'll bet even 1/4 non-white isn't good enough for most explicitly 'white' groups.

For the record, the largest single part of my heritage is Irish, so I'm neither colored not 'white'.

 

[PassionFruit]

I received this really odd email today and it got me thinking this would make for an interesting discussion here.



Where does pride in one's ethnic make up cross the line into racism? When does race advancement or exclusionary practices by organizations based on any race, cross the line into racism?

Having pride in one's race does not equal racism. Also I find that email amusing. The reason why there is Black and Hispanic History month is due to the fact that the contributions made by these groups would not be recognized.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I don't think anyone is saying "boo hoo, we don't get a white history month" or anything like that.

However, using President's Day as an example is poor, because we don't honor those guys because they were white. We honor them for what they accomplished. OTOH, February is Black History Month. It's not just about what they accomplished, but that they were black! and they accomplished this!

This to me would be the most depressing aspect of being a minority - having it shoved down my throat that somehow being black and doing something great is so rare that we need a whole month to celebrate it.

I even hate the term reverse racism, because shouldn't racism just be racism and not depend on who's on the receiving end?

 

[suzybeezy]

"Boo hoo, there is no white history month..."

THERE ARE ELEVEN WHITE HISTORY MONTHS.

I think it should just be history, not white or black. Due to the times and the ignorance of slavery, the history was made by predominantly white men. But we've come a long way. Imagine the history lessons in the future will include plenty of prominent accomplishments by people of color including the presidency and the diversity on the supreme court and military & medical accomplishments and lots of significant historical changes. Look at the strides this country is making. In my opinion, this is not the same racist country of the 1950s and organizations and programs need to start reflecting that - we need to stop all the separation of any sort based on race.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

I think it should just be history, not white or black. Due to the times and the ignorance of slavery, the history was made by predominantly white men. But we've come a long way. Imagine the history lessons in the future will include plenty of prominent accomplishments by people of color including the presidency and the diversity on the supreme court and military & medical accomplishments and lots of significant historical changes. Look at the strides this country is making. In my opinion, this is not the same racist country of the 1950s and organizations and programs need to start reflecting that - we need to stop all the separation of any sort based on race.

Typically the only history covering black folks were the days they were held as slaves (had it not been for the civil war, that might have been over looked) and the civil rights movement. No mention of scholars, writers, or black culture and music in general. It used to be an extremely overlooked part of United States history before the invention of Black history month, which in honesty, has devolved back into the Harriet Tubman-road to freedom - evil southern white folks in gray uniforms crap that we had at first.
This "separation of race" comes from cultural differences. People of a similar culture tend to flock together, which is why we have china-towns, little Italy's, and other type communities. It's nothing malevolent, just a benign human tendency. Organizations like the NAACP were founded by people of all races to address current issues of the day that faced people of color. Sure there's no more Jim Crow, but that only ended 40 years ago and organized housing & job discrimination 30 years ago - it's awful effects on the black community are still seen today and require fixing.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

As long as minorities fight for things like affirmative action and whatnot, people will continue to view them as different and will treat them as such. When a minority needs a system to tell them they're worthy of a job, they'll never be able to get past that system.

Minorities want to be treated equally, but it seems that some want that "equality" in special ways.

 

[Maxwell511]

People celebrate pride in their heritage. There are Greek festivals, Celtic festivals, Indian festivals, etc., here that often as not go on for a week. Black people aren't whining about people celebrating their Irish or Greek ancestry, regardless of the whiteness of those two ethnic groups. How do those white people that complain about such things as Black History Month not remember all these celebrations of ethnic white heritage?

Most Irish people do not consider themselves "White". "White" is a very ridiculous idea.

Irish Americans maybe do consider themselves "White", but we really don't consider them Irish. Basically because they abandoned what made them Irish to become "White". (even though Daniel O'Connell warned them against it.)

I have several friends that are Irish and amazingly (if an American saw them would think them..) "Black".

Irishness is not a skin colour it is a culture.

We are not "White".