RACISM? No, it is not.

[morningstar2651]

RACISM? No, it is not. That the Islamic juggernaught has hit a wall in Australia is NOT racism. Most, not all yet, but most "Westerners" do not care about the colour of a person's skin.

Here in Canada, people of every race aspire and attain every career available. Race is not an issue, really.

But, forces that hate traditionally European-based culture and religion will scream "Racism!" should anything get in their way of dismantling everything they perceive as European based.

They want to dismantle democracy, Christianity, self-esteem among whites, Judeo-Christian based ethics and so on.

Get in their way and suddenly they scream "RACIST!".

Now here's an interesting story. The Governor General of Canada, a black woman if that means anything anymore, had a tree put up this year outside her residence in celibration of the Season. Her office, dutifully obedient to the forces that want to destroy all things European based, quickly announced the presence of the tree calling it a HOLIDAY TREE.

The Governor General was shocked. And came out with a statment saying that the tree was definitely NOT a Holiday Tree .. Her Excellency Michaelle Jean made sure everyone in the country knew very well it was a CHRISTMAS TREE.

Since then, several municipalities in Canada have officially returned to calling a kettle a kettle and a Christmas Tree a Christmas Tree.

It's not racism, it's claiming one's rightful culture.

Why should traditionally Judeo-Christian and European culture countries submit every time? Why should it be their culture that is endlessly diminished? People are beginning to stand up against the onslaught against them.

I think this post overlooks some very important facts. Actually, it's an evergreen, not a "christmas tree". But, whatever floats your goat. Jesus tree, Christmas tree, evergreen, etc.

traditionally Judeo-Christian and European culture

Europe was traditionally Pagan.

It's not racism, it's claiming one's rightful culture.

It's neither -- it's childish.

They want to dismantle democracy, Christianity, self-esteem among whites, Judeo-Christian based ethics and so on.

 

[corvus_corax]

Thank you morningstar, for bringing this thread back to the point, as oppsosed to related tangent subjects.
Let's address the OP shall we?

RACISM? No, it is not. That the Islamic juggernaught has hit a wall in Australia is NOT racism. Most, not all yet, but most "Westerners" do not care about the colour of a person's skin.

You speak for your country, I'll speak for mine
Most caucasians in the communities I belong to (in oh-so-liberal Oregon, of all places) do still care about skin color. They're just better about being politically correct about it.

Here in Canada, people of every race aspire and attain every career available. Race is not an issue, really.

Canada sounds very nice

But, forces that hate traditionally European-based culture and religion

Hmmmmm, what IS the "traditionally European-based culture and religion"
??
Be careful, or even caucasians will start screaming racism

and religionwill scream "Racism!" should anything get in their way of dismantling everything they perceive as European based.

What ARE you talking about?
Are you actually saying that minority populations (in the caucasian Western world) are in cahoots in some worldwide conspiracy?
Or are you saying that perhaps they are a bit sensitive given that their cultures and races have been "traditionally" stamped on by a good majority of "western" culture?

They want to dismantle democracy, Christianity, self-esteem among whites, Judeo-Christian based ethics and so on.

Two points-
1-Sources. Your assertions mean absolutely nothing. Id like to see some reputable sources backing up this claim that "traditionally non-western" races want to dismantle democracy, Christianity, and white-attitude.
2- Im getting to the point that Judeo-Christian means little to nothing to me. It equates to "Islam-Christian" in my head.

Get in their way and suddenly they scream "RACIST!".

Get in a white man's way (in the manner you are speaking of) and suddenly he screams "REVERSE RACIST!"
Yep, Ive heard it IRL

Now here's an interesting story. The Governor General of Canada, a black woman if that means anything anymore, had a tree put up this year outside her residence in celibration of the Season. Her office, dutifully obedient to the forces that want to destroy all things European based,

Is her office made up of non-caucasians? Is it made up of non-"western culture" individuals?
If not, then your entire OP begins to fall apart
Completely

It's not racism, it's claiming one's rightful culture.

Canadian Culture?
Perhaps americans should go back to reclaiming their "rightful culture" (and historically traditional culture) of racism?
Yeah, that would rock

Why should traditionally Judeo-Christian and European culture countries submit every time? Why should it be their culture that is endlessly diminished? People are beginning to stand up against the onslaught against them.

That's great! Stand up for your "culture" if you want.
But dont delude yourself into thinking that any caucasian-majority christian-majority western country is in any danger (such as you describe).

You wanna see real danger? Look to those countries where people DIE simply due to religious belief, skin color, and/or "culture"

 

[Galilean]

Or are you saying that perhaps they are a bit sensitive given that their cultures and races have been "traditionally" stamped on by a good majority of "western" culture?

Could you please show me how 'western culture' as you put it has stamped on the culture/race whatever of asians and muslims for example? Are you the sort of person who's a bit like a radical anti-semitist only its not jews you're against but white people, scape goating them for all the evils of history and the world?

2- Im getting to the point that Judeo-Christian means little to nothing to me. It equates to "Islam-Christian" in my head.

Tell me about it.

Get in a white man's way (in the manner you are speaking of) and suddenly he screams "REVERSE RACIST!"
Yep, Ive heard it IRL

I've never heard it in real life, and I don't think I ever will. What exactly happened to provoke that response out of a 'white' person?
Oh and by the way it shouldn't be 'reverse racism' because that is assuming 'racism' is primarily whites against non-whites which is a racist notion in the first place.

That's great! Stand up for your "culture" if you want.

Can I ask you white you put culture in inverted commas? Don't you beleive western culture is genuine culture?

Perhaps americans should go back to reclaiming their "rightful culture" (and historically traditional culture) of racism?

The irony in what you say here, is that it is deeply prejudiced in itself, and is a form of racism, because you attribute the actions of certain invididuals to the whole group. Kind of like when random white americans (in some cases whites who aren't even americans) responsible or guilty in some way for american slavery.

 

[corvus_corax]

Could you please show me how 'western culture' as you put it has stamped on the culture/race whatever of asians and muslims for example?[/qiote]
Wait.......
What?
You are stating that you DONT know of western culture's stamping of asians and muslims?
Please tell me you arent saying this
A high school education would clarify such in the history of the USA

Are you the sort of person who's a bit like a radical anti-semitist only its not jews you're against but white people, scape goating them for all the evils of history and the world?

Seeing as how Im a caucasian, most likely not
Good try though
Caucasians, asians, african-americans, semitics have all been guilty of such

Tell me about it.

Is this agreement or a sarcastic comment
If agreement, then I agree. If sarcasm then we can continue our debate on this line

I've never heard it in real life, and I don't think I ever will. What exactly happened to provoke that response out of a 'white' person?
Oh and by the way it shouldn't be 'reverse racism' because that is assuming 'racism' is primarily whites against non-whites which is a racist notion in the first place.

You've NEVER heard of "reverse racism" before?
Really?
Wow
I wish (honestly) that I lived in the same culture as you

Can I ask you white you put culture in inverted commas? Don't you beleive western culture is genuine culture?

They weren't inverted commas. They were quote marks.

The irony in what you say here, is that it is deeply prejudiced in itself, and is a form of racism, because you attribute the actions of certain invididuals to the whole group. Kind of like when random white americans (in some cases whites who aren't even americans) responsible or guilty in some way for american slavery.

"Random" white americans?
Do you know the actual cultural history of america?
Slavery was rampant and accepted in all parts of America at one point. Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves (the latter of which admitted that future "more enlightened" generations may come up with better interpretations of the ammendments)
The latter of which was, of course, a slave owner

Dont preach to me about slavery in America and what so-called-minority was responsible for it. It was, initially and for a long time, the majority.

 

[Galilean]

"Random" white americans?
Do you know the actual cultural history of america?
Slavery was rampant and accepted in all parts of America at one point. Washington and Jefferson both owned slaves (the latter of which admitted that future "more enlightened" generations may come up with better interpretations of the ammendments)
The latter of which was, of course, a slave owner

Dont preach to me about slavery in America and what so-called-minority was responsible for it. It was, initially and for a long time, the majority.

So you beleive that any given american should be held accountable and guilty for slavery because they are white? That's what the problem is - ANY given white, even the ones who's family never owned any slaves. And even if they did - may I ask you why they should be held responsible? because they are white as well? sounds pretty racist to me. I'm sorry my freind - but just because I am caucasian, doesn't mean I'm responsible for the crimes of some random in the past because they were caucasian.

You are stating that you DONT know of western culture's stamping of asians and muslims?
Please tell me you arent saying this
A high school education would clarify such in the history of the USA

Ok - you're going to have to tell me where in the history of the USA there has been stamping on of 'asians' and muslims.

Caucasians, asians, african-americans, semitics have all been guilty of such

Thank you for acknowleding that. In which case, if I am guilty for slavery despite the fact myself or none of my ancestors had nothing to do with it, then I guess that means despite the fact no blood relatives of mine that I know of were killed brutally for no crime by japanese during world war 2, I'll be waiting on my reparation check from the japanese.

Is this agreement or a sarcastic comment
If agreement, then I agree. If sarcasm then we can continue our debate on this line

It was an agreement.

You've NEVER heard of "reverse racism" before?

It shouldn't be 'reverse racism' - racism is racism, racism does not = white against non-whites and thus non-white racism against whites is not reverse racism, just plain old racism thank you very much.
I don't beleive that I have ever encountered a white person claiming they have been a victim of racism, or standing up against any racism against them. The sort of thing I'm use to is stuff like this:

'Lots of whites south africans have been raped and killed by blacks over there'
'Hey man, are you being racist against black people?'
'oh no I wasn't at all the black people have only done those things as a reaction to the evils of whites, they have every right to do that, its the white people's fault, they are the bad ones'
'Oh, ok, good.'

I wish (honestly) that I lived in the same culture as you

So you wish to live in a culture where racism against whites is accepted?
You're pretty much already there my freind, if not for a few exceptions.

 

[LyricalX]

I don't care about racism against whites and im white

WHy should any other race like us?

We sit in our suburbs living the good life saying race is not an issue

Thats easy for us to say

 

[rosenherman]

I don't care about racism against whites and im white

WHy should any other race like us?

We sit in our suburbs living the good life saying race is not an issue

Thats easy for us to say

This smacks of "white guilt". You obviously live in a segregated community. I'm white and I do not. I live in the suburbs, living the good life, with my white, black and asian neighbors.

 

[Asherz]

So then why didn't the Europeans leave their culture behind and adopt the native american culture when they first came to this continent?

I'm going to take a stab at this but from a different perspective.

I want to examine what happened to the Native Americans due to their aquiescence to the incoming European culture.

I'm part Cherokee, so I will use them as an example.

When the Europeans first came, the Cherokee welcomed them and were very interested in their new neighbors. They traded with them, learned their culture, intermarried, and many even adopted Christianity. As the European population grew, tensions arose with the Cherokee because the Europeans needed more land to expand into. But this land was the Cherokee's home, where they had lived for hundreds of years, and they did not want to sell or leave it, and they weren't willing to fully assimilate into the European culture.

And the rest is history. A few members of the tribe negotiated with the federal government to exchange Cherokee land for land in the West, this btw was not approved by the tribe. The relocation, known as the trail of tears, with the assistance of 17,000 US troops followed, and many of the Cherokee were relocated, many fled and went into hiding, and at least 4,000 lost their lives in the process.

My ancestors went into hiding and denied their heritage. Being native american in those days was not safe, and those of European heritage viewed their culture as superior. Native Americans were all savages, perverse, and uncivilized, with nothing to offer society. They had to be removed, or better yet, destroyed. Does this form of thinking sound familiar to anyone? You know, us being infidels and all.

That aside, Cherokee culture along with any native american culture is virtually nonexistent and unknown to the world. In essence, it has been destroyed.

I don't think anyone on this board would venture to say that what happened was the appropriate and right thing to do. I imagine most would agree that the Cherokee should have been able to keep their way of life.

So why is it wrong for what is now the predominant culture to stay? Why is the preservation of what is now American, Canadian, Australian, and European culture a reprehensible idea to so many? There is much to be appreciated and honored that should not be destroyed. Especially not because someone who is new to this country happens to disagree with what is already established as right and proper here. I am not willing to appease the newcomer just so they will not have their feelings hurt. I would not expect any person of any other nation to bend over backward for me while I am living in their country. I would not move to another country if I did not fully or almost completely agree with the views of their society. I would go expecting to adopt their culture as my own. For instance, I will never move to a predominantly Muslim country. I don't agree with their standards. My future husband could probably be making a lot of money in oil if he were to relocate to the middle east, but we don't. The money does not outweigh the cultural sacrifices that would have to occur.

If they want to keep their personal observance of their culture, fine, just do it in the privacy of their own home. Or in public, since that is allowed here, but I am not going to change my ways and views solely because it might offend them. You can tell me what you think is valuable and important about your culture, but if I don't agree and desire to adopt your ways, don't call me intolerant, a racist, or whatever. I will continue to practice my way of life, and I will not allow my culture to be taken over. I can't. It has happened time and time again throughout history. The group that stands for their culture is the one that stays. (wow, what a concept.)

Sorry for the length, but on to the Holiday Tree insanity. First, most people, Christian or not, in the US, Canada, Australia, etc., celebrate Christmas. I think the rate is 95% in the US. Christmas has become a secular holiday with the traditions of Santa, reindeer, elves, and all that stuff. As far as I know, the Christmas tree itself is a secular symbol. I'm not aware of any Christmas trees as we know them being present in the Bible. They first appeared in Germany. The last time I checked, Germany is a couple thousand miles away from Bethlehem and was not in existence in the form of "Germany" 2000 years ago. So directly linking a "Christmas tree" as an endorsement of Christianity is just beyond crazy. They are known as "Christmas trees." That is their secular title. Calling them a holiday tree is just nonsense. Everyone knows they are related to Christmas, and not Chanukah(sp??), or Kwanzaa (sp??), and once again they are related to Christmas in a secular sense. What is so hard about this?

 

[applepowerpc]

The Christmas tree originated in Germany from Martin Luther as he marveled God's creation.

 

[corvus_corax]

So you beleive that any given american should be held accountable and guilty for slavery because they are white?

Did I say that?
No
Did I even imply that?
No
Are you putting words in my mouth?

...just because I am caucasian, doesn't mean I'm responsible for the crimes of some random in the past because they were caucasian.

I never stated such.
Not once

Ok - you're going to have to tell me where in the history of the USA there has been stamping on of 'asians' and muslims.

During the so-called 'wild west' days, orientals (specifically chinese) were often literally driven underground because 'proper' white people didnt want to see them anymore. Conditions were horrible, orientals were often considered "fair game" by the majority caucasians, etc etc etc

Thank you for acknowleding that. In which case, if I am guilty for slavery despite the fact myself or none of my ancestors had nothing to do with it, then I guess that means despite the fact no blood relatives of mine that I know of were killed brutally for no crime by japanese during world war 2, I'll be waiting on my reparation check from the japanese

Wow
You completely missed my point
Or are you just going off on an unrelated tangent?

It was an agreement.

Cool

It shouldn't be 'reverse racism' - racism is racism, racism does not = white against non-whites and thus non-white racism against whites is not reverse racism, just plain old racism thank you very much.

I agree with this, but I was speaking of instances where the term 'reverse racism' have been used

I don't beleive that I have ever encountered a white person claiming they have been a victim of racism, or standing up against any racism against them.

Growing up in Portland Oregon in the '70's and '80's, I heard it quite frequently

So you wish to live in a culture where racism against whites is accepted?
You're pretty much already there my freind, if not for a few exceptions.

Despite the fact that you've "never encountered a white person claiming they have been a victim of racism"? (emphasis mine)
Odd

 

[arunma]

The Christmas tree originated in Germany from Martin Luther as he marveled God's creation.

Actually, I'm fairly certain that it originated much earlier. I believe it was Saint Boniface who subjected the decorated tree to Christ, whereas it had originally been used in pagan, German rituals.

 

[Galilean]

I don't care about racism against whites and im white

You once said that Jesus couldn't have been white because he was a
good person, so I think it goes a little further then just you not
caring about racism against your own people.

WHy should any other race like us?

What about for everything we've done for them?
Electricity, running water, democracy and human rights,
all of their transport, all of their every day conveniances.
How can anyone live in america or any western nations and claim
to hate whites, I'd like to see them live in a world where none
of this existed.

We sit in our suburbs living the good life saying race is not an issue

That is just a racist generalisation, 'white' people live in a
all kinds of situations. And non-whites live in the suburbs as well.

Thats easy for us to say

No it is not. Go and walk through a dangerous ghetto and see how
you are treated.

Despite the fact that you've "never encountered a white person claiming they have been a victim of racism"? (emphasis mine)
Odd

That's exactly my point. Whites don't claim racism against them when it happens, it is accepted.
If they did, they would probably be considered 'racist'. It's happened on this very forum.

 

[Arthra]

This attitude "the White Man's burden" ...all the wonderful things brought to the native peoples ...all the things done for them and TO THEM is in this concept.

Coined by Rudyard Kipling over a hundred years ago.

After returning to England, he published "The White Man's Burden" in 1899, an appeal to the United States to assume the task of developing the Philippines, recently won in the Spanish-American War.

What is it today's reader finds so repugnant about Kipling's poem? If you were a citizen of a colonized territory, how would you respond to Kipling?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light:--
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloke your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers!

 

[indianx]

What about for everything we've done for them?
...... human rights

Human rights? Is this a continuation of the general misconception that Africans were wild savages running around in jungles eating each other before the Westerners came?

The concept of 'human rights' didn't originate western world, as you say. And notice I say just concept and not application, because the actions of the western world in the past belie the concept of human rights. That concept has also existed in the past in the Middle East, India, China, etc.

 

[arunma]

Human rights? Is this a continuation of the general misconception that Africans were wild savages running around in jungles eating each other before the Westerners came?

Actually, before the advent of Islam, Africans had a well established church, and they produced many prominent church leaders who were highly advanced in Christianity.

What about for everything we've done for them?
Electricity, running water, democracy and human rights,
all of their transport, all of their every day conveniances.

Everything that you have done for them? Let us dismiss everything else you have mentioned for the moment, and only discuss electricity. Please tell me why electricity is credited to the entire body of white humans, rather than Americans?

You seem to go to great lengths to create a division between whites and non-whites, which is why I regularly say that you have no business being a Christian. I certainly hope that I will be able to explain to you why I constantly harass you for your racist views, even if you ultimately disagree with my motivations.

 

[indianx]

Galilean, are your views towards intermarriage between races derived from your interpretation of the Bible or are they mutually exclusive?

 

[rahma]

Actually, before the advent of Islam, Africans had a well established church, and they produced many prominent church leaders who were highly advanced in Christianity.

Africa is a big continent. North Africa had several well established churches. However, many of these churches were declared heretical by the ecumenical councils. I don't think there were churches elsewhere in africa.

 

[arunma]

Africa is a big continent. North Africa had several well established churches. However, many of these churches were declared heretical by the ecumenical councils. I don't think there were churches elsewhere in africa.

To this day, there is a well established Christian church in Ethiopia. Quite a few heresies originated in Africa, but some of the greatest defenders of orthodoxy were also Africans.

Galilean, are your views towards intermarriage between races derived from your interpretation of the Bible or are they mutually exclusive?

He certainly thinks that his views on the issue are derived from the Bible. If this were not so, then I would fully support his right to disapprove of interracial marriage. But because he claims Biblical support, he has blasphemed God, and I claim that his mere existence as a professing Christian is blasphemy.

 

[rahma]

To this day, there is a well established Christian church in Ethiopia. Quite a few heresies originated in Africa, but some of the greatest defenders of orthodoxy were also Africans.

I believe the Ethiopian church is oriental orthodox, and is Non-Chalcedonian, according to the ecumenical councils. It is also the only pre-colonial church in sub saharan africa. North Africa is a very small part of the continent. You can't really say "africa" had a well established christian church, because most of the continent didn't until colonial times.

It's very difficult to speak of "africa" as a whole, as it varies greatly between regions, and ethnic groups. Egyptians have very little in common with Hutus, although they both live in africa.

 

[arunma]

I believe the Ethiopian church is oriental orthodox, and is Non-Chalcedonian, according to the ecumenical councils. It is also the only pre-colonial church in sub saharan africa. North Africa is a very small part of the continent. You can't really say "africa" had a well established christian church, because most of the continent didn't until colonial times.

It's very difficult to speak of "africa" as a whole, as it varies greatly between regions, and ethnic groups. Egyptians have very little in common with Hutus, although they both live in africa.

I'm well aware of that. But Indianx was speaking about the misconception (probably held by Galilean) which suggests that all Africans practiced paganism apart from Western influence. I think you know as well as I: a Western racist can't tell the difference between an Ethiopian Christian and a pagan African.