Races

[Polycarp1]

I am trying to find those specific stats but my gut says that African Americans would still have higher incarcerations.

African Americans seem to be more violent:


Race, Crime and Justice in America
The Color
of
Crime
New Century Foundation
Oakton, VA 22124

Second, Expanded Edition
Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder,
and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely
than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and
Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of
the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving
blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Fortyfive
percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are
Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are
black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against
a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes
against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs.
Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139
to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39
million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are
three times more likely.

crime statistics by race for those who cry racism... - Topix

This was a post on a message board by someone calling himself "Scott/AOL" purporting to report the "major findings" of something published by the New Century Foundation. Here is the NCF's homepage, promoting a publication called "The Color of Crime" that appears to be the source for the post.

Wikipedia's article on the NCF reads as follows:

The New Century Foundation is a United States 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization founded in 1994 to "study immigration and race relations so as to better understand the consequences of America’s increasing diversity."

It sponsors publications and books, and holds occasional conferences. The organization was founded by Jared Taylor, who is its current president. The group publishes the American Renaissance, a monthly magazine describing itself as "America's premiere publication of racial-realist thought." One New Century Foundation's publication, The Color of Crime, coauthored by Ian Jobling makes various claims about the relationship between crime and race. The publication concludes that black people are more dangerous than white people, just as "young people are more dangerous than old people" and "men are more dangerous than women." It claims that it is logical to take precautions around black people. The Anti-Defamation League criticized the New Century Foundation for promoting "genteel racism" and for employing dubious techniques to claim the superiority of whites and the need for racial purity.

 

[Ryal Kane]

You do realize that being porn poor increases your chances of being poor, and of getting put in jail. You would have to do a class divided study. What is the comparison of middle class African Americans verses middle class Caucasians. What about working/poor class? The number are likey to become far similar if you compare them like that.

Also IIRC, White people convicted of the same crime in the US statistically recieve lesser sentences. (I could be wrong on this)

Even if there was a genuine difference in race in in terms of gentics in relation to 'success' it would be virtually impossible to gather significant data to find out. Culture seems to have far more of an impact than genes. It might turn out that if you raised ten thousand Inuit in Japan that their genes meant that they were statistically better in the Japanese business system. But you can't test that because Inuit are mostly raised in Inuit culture and Japanese in Japanese culture.

There's know way of knowing whether things would be identical or difference if African settlers had founded America with slaves from Europe.

Logic suggest to me that the culture you are raised in, and that cultures reaction to your potential physical difference, will have a far greater affect on your upbringing than the attriubutes of your ethnicity.

 

[quatona]

Do you believe all races are equal?

I don´t know. I guess I have problems with understanding what exactly you mean by "equal".

Is one better than the other?

I suspect that each race comes with advantages and disadvantages.

Are there inherent characteristics in each one?

Sure. Like blacks have dark skin and whites have a light skin. Basically that which are the criteria for determining races.

Is one more successful than the other?

Each of them presumably is more successful in certain respects than the others. Depending on what the defining characteristics for this particular race are.

Do you idealize your own race above other races?

Actually, I don´t even seem to find myself utilizing the category "race" - unless when hard-pressed to do so.

Do you have prejudices?

Most certainly I have.

 

[Fin12]

Ke, unfortunatly for you cantata etc are right, socio-economic backgrounds have far more to play in your development, than race.

For instance black people did use to have a considerably lower avergae IQ, that was about 80 years ago. However, now that that the cultural and economic gap has closed further and thier is less discrimiation, that IQ gap and also that crime Gap has actually reduced in size.

Now as time goes on, the measurements are showing that intellectual capabilities on average of the black community is still climbing and the closing of the gap shows no signs in stopping.

 

[Penumbra]

Do you believe all races are equal? Is one better than the other?

It depends on what you mean by equality. You've defined it, but it's a complex concept that takes more than a few words to define.

Are they equal in every category? Probably not. Are they equal as a whole? I'd say yes.

Intellectually, all races seem to be on par with each other. Some areas of the globe have high education rates, but given the same chance at education, race doesn't seem to have much effect.

Physically, races have some differences beyond merely skin color. Some races are more prone to diseases or defects than others, but it appears to be fairly balanced. Also, some races are larger than others, such as Norwegians being taller than Japanese, despite both being well-nourished countries. Size can give advantages and disadvantages.

Are there inherent characteristics in each one?

Physically, yes, as noted above.

Is one more successful than the other?

It depends how you define success.

Do you idealize your own race above other races? Do you have prejudices?

I'm sure everyone has some prejudices. I don't think I consciously idealize my own race, though.

African Americans men are far more likely to be incarcerated than any other race. While there are other factors for this, the percentage is astounding..10% compared to 1.2% of whites. Prison Population Exceeds Two Million — Infoplease.com

Furthermore, African Americans make up a lot of the poverty in our nation:

"For instance, 30 percent of black Americans in Illinois live in poverty compared with only 8 percent of white Americans."
Much of Black America is Drowning in Poverty

It would seem that some races are more successful than others.

Can one race be inherently more aggressive and more likely to rebel?

The huge problem with what you're saying is that you're mixing in culture with race.

You talk about how blacks are in poverty and are more violent, but you have to keep in mind that nearly their entire population in the US was enslaved at one point, only 150 years ago, and then for another hundred years they had less than equal rights. It's not like blacks and whites started in equal economic ground while the whites prospered and the blacks fell into poverty. Instead, African Americans have been in relative poverty compared to whites ever since they were freed, mainly because they started with nothing and were kept down by laws even after being freed. And once stuck in poverty, poverty produces violence and more poverty, so it takes a long time to get out of it.

I'm sure if blacks and whites were compared to each other in the 1920s in terms of education levels and financial success you'd find that they were a lot more separated than they are now. Similarly, if you sample middle class black people and compare them to middle class white people, you'd probably find little to no difference in violence.

So my point is I don't see how that has anything to do with genetics, but instead merely history, culture, and the environment that they were in.

-Lyn

 

[peadar1987]

Do you believe all races are equal?
Equal in ability and potential, more or less.
Equal in treatment, unfotunately no

Is one better than the other?
A black person is less likely to get sunburnt than me, but my longer northern European nose means I can breathe better in cold weather. Some races are more suited to different conditions, that's why they evolved differently. However, on a large scale, no race is inherently better than any other.

Are there inherent characteristics in each one?
I've noticed black people tend to have darker skin

Is one more successful than the other?
White people are generally more successful in the western world, but that's due to the fact that other races have to work their way up from the bottom, mainly due to racial prejudice, and the poverty trap.

Do you idealize your own race above other races?
No

Do you have prejudices?
Like almost everyone, I do. However, I'd like to think mine are based on cultures I find daft rather than the colour of someone's skin, or the shape of their eyes. (And yes, I think it's okay to describe some cultures as daft. Fundamentalist Islam being near the top of the list.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

Do you believe all races are equal?

They could be.

Is one better than the other?

Some have more scientific and cultural achievements than others.

Are there inherent characteristics in each one?

Like what? Work ethic? Intelligence? No.

Is one more successful than the other?

On a racial level, obviously, individually no.

Do you idealize your own race above other races?

I don't think my race is better than anyone else, but I want to work specifically to better it.

Do you have prejudices?

I sure do.

 

[MountainCappuccino]

I am trying to find those specific stats but my gut says that African Americans would still have higher incarcerations.

African Americans seem to be more violent:


Race, Crime and Justice in America
The Color
of
Crime
New Century Foundation
Oakton, VA 22124

Second, Expanded Edition
Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder,
and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely
than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and
Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of
the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving
blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Fortyfive
percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are
Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are
black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against
a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes
against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs.
Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139
to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39
million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are
three times more likely.

crime statistics by race for those who cry racism... - Topix

I'd like to see some education and crime statistics for African immigrants. Something tells me it's a LOT lower, and if it is, then we know this is a cultural and economic issue, not something that's racial (though the culture and economic differences resulted from racial discrimination).

 

[Maxwell511]

Do you believe all races are equal?

- Ok, what definition of a race are you using? as I see it, a race is the term given to a sertain set of common genes in the genepool for a subgroup of people. A sub-genepool perhaps..

Race does not have a genetic definition, so your definition is sort of bull. The reason that race does not have a genetic definition though is because the concept of race is sort of bull. There is no empirical evidence for a realism approach to race.

 

[lawtonfogle]

could you provide an example? thanks

Parenting styles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Parenting styles convey different advantages and disadvantages onto children, and due to being instilled, sometimes before the child can fully talk, much less read, they are some of the most core values a child will likely have. But if you notice, there is little difference based on race within the same socioeconomic level.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I am trying to find those specific stats but my gut says that African Americans would still have higher incarcerations.

African Americans seem to be more violent:


Race, Crime and Justice in America
The Color
of
Crime
New Century Foundation
Oakton, VA 22124

Second, Expanded Edition
Major Findings
• Police and the justice system are not biased against minorities.
Crime Rates
• Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder,
and eight times more likely to commit robbery.
• When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely
than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.
• Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and
Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.
• The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of
the population that is black and Hispanic.
Interracial Crime
• Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving
blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.
• Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Fortyfive
percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are
Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are
black.
• Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against
a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.
• Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes
against whites than vice versa.
Gangs
• Only 10 percent of youth gang members are white.
• Hispanics are 19 times more likely than whites to be members of youth gangs.
Blacks are 15 times more likely, and Asians are nine times more likely.
Incarceration
• Between 1980 and 2003 the US incarceration rate more than tripled, from 139
to 482 per 100,000, and the number of prisoners increased from 320,000 to 1.39
million.
• Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites. Hispanics are
three times more likely.

crime statistics by race for those who cry racism... - Topix

This does nothing to refute my argument that this is due to socioeconomic differences. For what ever reason, black and Hispanics are, on average, at a lower socioeconomic class.

Also, some ethnic backgrounds may induce more violence, but this too is not race, but ethnic background.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Tough. The answer isn’t simple.

In America (and in the UK), if you are black—or, indeed, Hispanic, or Asian, or a woman, or transgendered, or disabled, or not heterosexual, or any combination of these things—you accumulate, as a consequence both of the socioeconomic circumstances of your parents, and the prejudices of society at large, small disadvantages from birth which amount to large disadvantages by the time you come to seek employment. You also receive, as does everyone, a stream of information, implied or stated, about others’ expectations for your behaviour, temperament, and success.

This obviously has an effect on your temperament, and on your socioeconomic status. Temperament and socioeconomic status are a strong predictors of involvement with crime. Surprise, surprise: certain groups of people end up being more involved with crime than others.

You forgot poor. Poor white folks are also disadvantaged, sometimes more so, sometimes less so than classical minorities. While a poor white male would not be rejected from an old boys network like a black or woman would, he is still not in one, so unless he actually gets into one while he climbs the latter of social importance, he is going to remain disadvantaged. In other words, he has to use other people's racism to his advantage, and if he refuses to do so to the best of his ability due to moral objection to doing so, he is not going to have the advantages of being white, but he will still have the disadvantages of being born/raised poor.

 

[lawtonfogle]

Also IIRC, White people convicted of the same crime in the US statistically recieve lesser sentences. (I could be wrong on this)

Even if there was a genuine difference in race in in terms of gentics in relation to 'success' it would be virtually impossible to gather significant data to find out. Culture seems to have far more of an impact than genes. It might turn out that if you raised ten thousand Inuit in Japan that their genes meant that they were statistically better in the Japanese business system. But you can't test that because Inuit are mostly raised in Inuit culture and Japanese in Japanese culture.

There's know way of knowing whether things would be identical or difference if African settlers had founded America with slaves from Europe.

Logic suggest to me that the culture you are raised in, and that cultures reaction to your potential physical difference, will have a far greater affect on your upbringing than the attriubutes of your ethnicity.

In reverse, I would like to see a breakdown of sentencing on a socioeconomic level. How much of this was due to racism (there will be some, especially with Hispanics around where I live), and how much was due to the fact that an average Hispanic/African American is poorer than the average Caucasian? Poorer people often times get less defense, and there is also less of a social network (like maybe your mother's boss knows a guy who can help you out).

 

[Nooj]

I think the concept of race is a social construction and that it's a poor reflection of reality. I think ethnicity is a far better term. But even if race does exist and it has a genetic basis, there's a big gap between acknowledging it exists and treating people differently based on their race.

 

[cantata]

You forgot poor.

I did, and I apologise. My privilege was showing!

 

[MoonLancer]

- I sometimes do, but when I think about it more, I find that it comes from cultural structures that I am unfamiliar with, or do not fully agree with.

Its hard to explain but i think i know what your talking about.

 

[Symbolico]

Do you believe all races are equal?

Legally, yes. Practically, no. Each has their own niche that they fit in, and certain in which they are better at doing than other races. It's simple genetics.

Is one better than the other?

Each is better is certain things that the others. To say they're all equal at everything is ideal hippyism at it's worst.

Are there inherent characteristics in each one?

Genetic charactoristics, yes. There are also socio-economic and various other charactoristics as well, but they have less to do with genetics than various other causes.

Is one more successful than the other?

Of course. There are always winners and losers in the world.

Do you idealize your own race above other races?

Not really. But I am happy to be white. Makes things easier.

Do you have prejudices?

Everyone has them. I prefer white women to black women. Those are the types I have.

 

[cantata]

Legally, yes. Practically, no. Each has their own niche that they fit in, and certain in which they are better at doing than other races. It's simple genetics.

Is it?

Can you provide some evidence that racial differences other than superficial physical differences like skin, eye and hair colour are genetic rather than environmentally determined? Specifically, please provide some evidence for genetic racial differences in some aptitude or other.

 

[peadar1987]

Is it?

Can you provide some evidence that racial differences other than superficial physical differences like skin, eye and hair colour are genetic rather than environmentally determined? Specifically, please provide some evidence for genetic racial differences in some aptitude or other.

One example I'm familiar with is the one I used earlier. Northern Europeans have longer noses than Africans, which means that the air they breathe is pre-warmed before it reaches their lungs, meaning they can breathe better in cold climates. However, Africans' noses are shorter and broader, meaning that in warm and moderate climates, they can inhale more oxygen, and have better athletic performance.

Of course, this is just a general trend, and differences between indiiduals have a far greater effect.

 

[Nooj]

One example I'm familiar with is the one I used earlier. Northern Europeans have longer noses than Africans, which means that the air they breathe is pre-warmed before it reaches their lungs, meaning they can breathe better in cold climates. However, Africans' noses are shorter and broader, meaning that in warm and moderate climates, they can inhale more oxygen, and have better athletic performance.

Of course, this is just a general trend, and differences between indiiduals have a far greater effect.

That sounds bizarre to me. Do you have a source for that?