Race

[budoka]

Deuteronomy 24:16: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

These are God's words, yet the children of Sodom and Gomorrah died for their father's sins (Genesis 13; they wanted to rape Lot's guests), as did the children of the Amalekites (1 Samuel 15: 3; their ancestors were enemies of Israelites), to cite just a few cases.

The difference seems to be one of race. There were different rules for Hebrew slaves and non-Hebrew slaves (the former being set free after 6 years, the latter being slaves for life), so it seems that there is a very strong racial bias in the Old Testament. How does this translate into modern Christian morality? Different rules for different nations or faiths? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but a lot of Christians insist that Old Testament morality is relevant today.

 

[LightBearer]

In the case of Sodom and Gomorrah they were famous for depravity.  Surrounding peoples were greatly distressed about the serious violations of human decency. This resulted in a general outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible states that the complaint was not overlooked by "the Judge of all the earth," Jehovah God.  Gen. 18:20, 21, 25.  Pedophilia was apparently among the region's many vices. Genesis 19:4 describes a sex-crazed mob of Sodomites ranging "from boy to old man" seeking to rape Lot's two male guests. Consider: Why would mere boys be inflamed with the idea of raping males? Clearly they had already been introduced to homosexual perversions. God was prepared to save these cities if but ten righteous poeple could be found, but there were not even ten. God "Who searches the hearts" could clearly see that these cities were unsavable, even the children were being perverted and would no doubt grow up to be as depraved as the adults, as they were begining to show. So God had no choice but to destroy them. This was not a racial act but one of righteous justice.

As for the Amalakites, as you quoted they were sworn enemies of Gods people. God destroyed the children along with their parent because again "God searches the hearts" and could no doubt see that the childrens hearts too were being filled with and taught to hate and would also grow to be sworn enemies of his people and therefore be a serious threat to them and to his worship.

We have to bare in mind that God can undo the deaths of people by means of a ressurestion. Who can say that God will not give these children a fresh start in a world free from the corrupting influence of Satans system and their once depraved parents.

 

[Jasco]

Deuteronomy 24:16: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

These are God's words, yet the children of Sodom and Gomorrah died for their father's sins

  

 
 

No, they died for their own sins, not their father's. God searched inside of every single person, to find only ten righteous people, but did not find them. Even the children.

 

[Rae]

Yep, all those evil babies, out to destroy the world

 

[LightBearer]

Originally posted by Rae
Yep, all those evil babies, out to destroy the world

These were babies once.

1.  Hitler

2. Amin

3. Osama Bin Laden

4. Pol Pot

5. Stalin

6. Pinochet

There are many more.

Who's to say how many lives would have been saved had these never grown up.

 

[Arikay]

God also killed all the children and un born babies in the flood too.

Jesus was also a baby, and he wasnt evil.

Why didnt god kill hitler when he was a baby?
Was hitler evil as a baby?

Originally posted by LightBearer
These were babies once.

1.  Hitler

2. Amin

3. Osama Bin Laden

4. Pol Pot

5. Stalin

6. Pinochet

There are many more.

Who's to say how many lives would have been saved had these never grown up.

 

[Serving4Christ]

Originally posted by Arikay
God also killed all the children and un born babies in the flood too.

Jesus was also a baby, and he wasnt evil.

Why didnt god kill hitler when he was a baby?
Was hitler evil as a baby?

 

Why don't you ask Him when you get there?   We try to answer these questions, but some questions just don't have worldly answers.  Some answers can only come from the Maker Himself. 

Good question, I can see the squirrels are turning inside that head of yours!

 

[Rae]

Ah, so it's okay to kill babies because otherwise they might grow up to be bad. Good to know you support abortion rights; so many Christians here don't.

After all, those babies' mothers, at least, must be "evil" to want to have the abortion to begin with...better to abort them, right?

 

[Arikay]

Lol, with all the mind reading that goes on around here, you would think that you were practicing witch craft or something.

(No offense to the wicca witches around here )

Originally posted by Serving4Christ
 

Why don't you ask Him when you get there?   We try to answer these questions, but some questions just don't have worldly answers.  Some answers can only come from the Maker Himself. 

Good question, I can see the squirrels are turning inside that head of yours!

 

[Prufrock]

Surrounding peoples were greatly distressed about the serious violations of human decency. This resulted in a general outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible states that the complaint was not overlooked by "the Judge of all the earth," Jehovah God.

There are many situations today and throughout history, where human depravity has caused an outcry. (i.e. all those infamous names afore mentioned).  How come God doesn't bring down fire on us all?  after all aren't we all worthless sinners?  I may have never raped anyone, but does God see things in degrees?  I sure don't understand God--how he can be totally constant and holy, and yet show grace to some more than others...   

 

 

[LightBearer]

Originally posted by sketchyatbest
There are many situations today and throughout history, where human depravity has caused an outcry. (i.e. all those infamous names afore mentioned).  How come God doesn't bring down fire on us all?  after all aren't we all worthless sinners?  I may have never raped anyone, but does God see things in degrees?  I sure don't understand God--how he can be totally constant and holy, and yet show grace to some more than others...   

 

He is about to.  Havn't you heared of Armageddon?

 

[Arikay]

When would this armageddon be coming?

Originally posted by LightBearer
He is about to.  Havn't you heared of Armageddon?

 

[Prufrock]

I agree with you, bearer of light; the world will end someday. Do you think there will be press coverage of Armageddon? If so, I bet it will have an anti-Israeli bias. I've read revelation where it talks about armageddon. It didn't make too much sense to me. I guess I wasn't spiritually elightened. How long was John on that island by himself when he wrote that book, anyways? I'm not saying it couldn't be true, but I'm just taking into account the "Castaway" syndrome.

 

[seebs]

99% of the people who expected to see Armageddon were wrong; I am going to go about my business normally, serving God in the world I'm actually in, not fantasizing about when everyone who disagrees with me gets theirs.

 

[lowmagnet]

31st January 2003 at 02:33 AM LightBearer said this in Post #5 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=617010#post617010)

Who's to say how many lives would have been saved had these never grown up.

Who's to say that someone even more terrible wasn't offed by these people? It's such a what-if conundrum.

Adolph Hitler dies as a baby.
Josef Goebels rises to power, and does it without the influence of Hitler's Aryan politics.
Goebels convinces Einstein to help him build 'the' bomb.
London is destroyed in a surprise bombing.

Who's to say, who's to say? If everything truly is part of God's plan, then perhaps the existence of great evil is a necessity.

 

[Arikay]

Thats similiar to a theory some people have about god. That since many people think god has 3 personalities, The trinity, (God, Jesus, Holy spirit) what if he has 4. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Satan. That Since sometimes good things come from evil deeds, that satan might actually be part of god, and part of his plan.

Today at 07:55 PM lowmagnet said this in Post #15 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=693726#post693726)

Who's to say that someone even more terrible wasn't offed by these people? It's such a what-if conundrum.

Adolph Hitler dies as a baby.
Josef Goebels rises to power, and does it without the influence of Hitler's Aryan politics.
Goebels convinces Einstein to help him build 'the' bomb.
London is destroyed in a surprise bombing.

Who's to say, who's to say? If everything truly is part of God's plan, then perhaps the existence of great evil is a necessity.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Who's to say that someone even more terrible wasn't offed by these people? It's such a what-if conundrum.

Adolph Hitler dies as a baby.
Josef Goebels rises to power, and does it without the influence of Hitler's Aryan politics.
Goebels convinces Einstein to help him build 'the' bomb.
London is destroyed in a surprise bombing.

Who's to say, who's to say? If everything truly is part of God's plan, then perhaps the existence of great evil is a necessity.

Our last project in European History was to rewrite the Treaty of Versailles that ended WWI. Among other amendments and edits, we managed to get in a clause that read, "All art schools shall admit any applicant with the name Adolf, Hitler, Adolf Hitler, or any variation thereupon (including anagrams)." So now it's a running gag in our class to blame WWII on pretentious art schools. "If they only admitted Hitler!"

 

[dnich163]

21st January 2003 at 03:55 PM budoka said this in Post #1

. How does this translate into modern Christian morality? Different rules for different nations or faiths? It doesn't seem to make any sense, but a lot of Christians insist that Old Testament morality is relevant today.

Hi budoka,

My understanding of the new testament is that Jesus came to show that God's chosen race (the hebrews) were chosen not because they were better but to bring the word of the lord (Jesus) to the nations of the earth.

The problem was that, just as in people today, they thought they were chosen because "they" were special.

Jesus came to show that all were to be included in God's plan of salvation; gentiles as well as Jews, samaritans as well as pharisees.

This is my understanding anyway, but this may very well not suit all who follow the Christian message as can be seen from some of the other posts.

David 

 

[lowmagnet]

Yesterday at 05:01 AM Arikay said this in Post #16 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=693844#post693844)

Having read about the Cathar (a break-off sect of the Roman Catholic Church in France) tenets, there were two Gods. One was a God of Heaven, one was a God of Earth. The Earth God was called Rex Mundi, and the seat of his power according to the Cathar, lay in the seat of the Pope himself. Long story short, they were wiped out by forces loyal to Rome.

The concept of a Quadrine (?) God is interesting.

 

[Nathan Poe]

30th January 2003 at 09:33 PM LightBearer said this in Post #5

These were babies once.

1.  Hitler

2. Amin

3. Osama Bin Laden

4. Pol Pot

5. Stalin

6. Pinochet

There are many more.

Who's to say how many lives would have been saved had these never grown up.

So you see, not only can we slaughter people for what their grandfathers did in the past, we can wipe them out as babies for what they might do in the future!

What an effecrtive system.