Quoting scripture to nonbelievers ...

[JimB]

Why do you have to quote the Bible, why not just use the word of God? And yes it does say he reasoned with the Greeks, but it doesn't say he didn't use the Scripture, so it could be either, but that's why an argumentum ad ignorantiam is a fallacy.

Then I heard about the guy in Texas who, after seeing the Passion of the Christ, turned himself in for murdering his girlfriend. Tell me, was the power in the movie, or in the word of God? There is power in the word of God, and God has exalted it above His own name. (I'm pretty sure we had this discussion before) Paul, the same person you said didn't use Scripture with the Greeks once said something along the lines of 'Who cares why they're preaching, just that Jesus is being preached'. You don't have to know the scriptures to know the law, God has written it on our hearts. You don't have to know the scripture to realize live is short, God has built eternity into us. But you can still be presented with the Scripture. Jesus used the law to the rich young ruler, who, by your definition, didn't understand what Jesus was saying. But it seemed pretty clear that he knew exactly what Jesus was asking of him, and Jesus was using the first commandment.

Well, I agree that whether you quote scripture, tell parables, share your story, talk about the weather, fishing, or the Astros always present the TRUTH of the Gospel.

One of the reasons I buy the “tell your story” approach to personal evangelism is that most Christians are intimidated by the prospect of having to memorize passages of scriptures (the Roman Road, Find Peace With God, etc.), learning soul-winning techniques and “answers to objections” etc. before they can be an effective witness. That terrifying prospect has kept thousands of believers from ever sharing their faith – they feel inadequate. But even a one-day-old believer can share their story of what God has done for them without training, memorizing, or knowing how to ‘close the sale’. This simplest of approaches to witnessing would get thousands of more Christians sharing the faith in the marketplace than the fundamentalist Roman Road approach, IMO.

In the meantime they can do the kind of study that would give anyone who asks a reason for the hope that is in them. But “telling your story” is easy enough for anybody and it does have scriptural precedent (Jesus and Paul, no less).

~Jim

PS – Have a great Sunday. I hope someone comes to the Lord in your church this morning, however the Gospel is presented.

 

[NacDan]

I shared with Jim this morning at assembly this observation: Last night I was reading the book of Mark with my 15 year old son from the New King James Version. What we've been doing is listening to the NKJV on CD and reading along in our Bible's. After we read the 'parable of the sower', I had Zac (my son) stop the CD, and I asked him, "Do you know what a sower is?"

His eyes lit up, he looked at me, and said, "Yeah! A sower is someone that stitches clothes together..."

He was NOT kidding.

Then I asked him, what do you suppose the parable of the sower means? Now, keep in mind that we had already read the part where Jesus explains the parable to the disciples...

"Daddy, I have NO idea."

We stopped the CD multiple times last night so that I could explain concepts, words, and ideas to my son (other times he stopped the disc himself and looked at me with that far away distant look that we parents often observe in our children...)

WHAT good would it have done my son for any of you to spew scriptures at my son in order to witness to him? He wouldn't have understood you, and not being his trusted parent, probably wouldn't have asked you for further explaination. Your effort would have produced NO FRUIT.

Let he who has ears to hear, LISTEN!

Danny

 

[NewSong]

I shared with Jim this morning at assembly this observation: Last night I was reading the book of Mark with my 15 year old son from the New King James Version. What we've been doing is listening to the NKJV on CD and reading along in our Bible's. After we read the 'parable of the sower', I had Zac (my son) stop the CD, and I asked him, "Do you know what a sower is?"

His eyes lit up, he looked at me, and said, "Yeah! A sower is someone that stitches clothes together..."

He was NOT kidding.

Then I asked him, what do you suppose the parable of the sower means? Now, keep in mind that we had already read the part where Jesus explains the parable to the disciples...

"Daddy, I have NO idea."

We stopped the CD multiple times last night so that I could explain concepts, words, and ideas to my son (other times he stopped the disc himself and looked at me with that far away distant look that we parents often observe in our children...)

WHAT good would it have done my son for any of you to spew scriptures at my son in order to witness to him? He wouldn't have understood you, and not being his trusted parent, probably wouldn't have asked you for further explaination. Your effort would have produced NO FRUIT.

Let he who has ears to hear, LISTEN!

Danny

Than you for sharing your personal experience first hand no less.

NewSong

 

[NewSong]

I hope I am sticking the OP when I say this. When the OP started this post I was a little put off by not quoting scriptures. Then I had to recall some specific incidences and one of them my grandpa which had no Bible background at all except what I shared that people "spew" at him as Danny says.

Then I started recalling others who came to Jesus Christ and what it was that drew them and you know I am of a different mind that using scriptures in the manner that most of us think like in the 4 principles etc. does more harm. I thought about it and I think there were so many that ran and lost time because of this.

Now I am of a different mind that Jim M's approach that he shared here is certainly a more acceptable way....

“tell your story” approach

 

[Svt4Him]

I shared with Jim this morning at assembly this observation: Last night I was reading the book of Mark with my 15 year old son from the New King James Version. What we've been doing is listening to the NKJV on CD and reading along in our Bible's. After we read the 'parable of the sower', I had Zac (my son) stop the CD, and I asked him, "Do you know what a sower is?"

His eyes lit up, he looked at me, and said, "Yeah! A sower is someone that stitches clothes together..."

He was NOT kidding.

Then I asked him, what do you suppose the parable of the sower means? Now, keep in mind that we had already read the part where Jesus explains the parable to the disciples...

"Daddy, I have NO idea."

We stopped the CD multiple times last night so that I could explain concepts, words, and ideas to my son (other times he stopped the disc himself and looked at me with that far away distant look that we parents often observe in our children...)

WHAT good would it have done my son for any of you to spew scriptures at my son in order to witness to him? He wouldn't have understood you, and not being his trusted parent, probably wouldn't have asked you for further explaination. Your effort would have produced NO FRUIT.

Let he who has ears to hear, LISTEN!

Danny

Why is it that saying Scripture to non-Believers has become spewing Scripture? Let me ask you what was the sower sowing in your story, and where? That kind of answers the question doesn't it? And let me also say that fruit is not instant. I don't plant a seed, come back ten minuts later and pick the fruit, so for you to say there is no fruit from him hearing the word is also not true. It could be true, but time will tell. So sorry, I have to pick what the Bible says in this same story:

“Behold, a sower went out to sow. qvb://0/anchor/44And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. qvb://0/anchor/55Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. qvb://0/anchor/66But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. qvb://0/anchor/77And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. qvb://0/anchor/88But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. qvb://0/anchor/99He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

19When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. qvb://0/anchor/2020But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; qvb://0/anchor/2121yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. qvb://0/anchor/2222Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. qvb://0/anchor/2323But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

 

[JimB]

Why is it that saying Scripture to non-Believers has become spewing Scripture? Let me ask you what was the sower sowing in your story, and where? That kind of answers the question doesn't it? *****

Good point, S4, except the “seed” that is sowed is the “message of the kingdom” and that does not necessarily mean quoting proof texts, or as Danny put it, "spewing scriptures".

In Danny’s defense, “spewing scripture” means (to me) mechanically disgorging proof-texts like a machine, too often without heart or feeling. I have been victimized by such people who used memorized texts as a way of hammering someone into submission, either in witnessing or arguing.

When I was an unsaved college student, Brother Bob, the pastor at our local neighborhood fundamentalist church, would dutifully tote his big family-sized Bible from prospect to prospect giving them the “Word of God”. He cornered me more than once, sat me down, opened his well-worn pages and took me down the Roman Road. I would look at him, nod as though I understood what he was saying and when he got to the part where he was supposed to “close the sale” I would tell him I, um, wasn’t ready. He would say, “Well, doesn’t all this make sense?” I would nod and lie and say, “Yeah, but …” Actually, to my unregenerate mind, I did not have a clue what most of the stuff he had read meant. If the faithful pastor would have just laid his Bible aside and told me what Christ meant to him and gave me to story of the Lord has done for him I might have made my commitment years sooner. At least I would have thought it really meant something to him and would have understood him. Instead, I was more impressed with Brother Bob’s command of scripture than I was of what he was driving at. He failed (IMO) to offer me Jesus so much as he offered me his impressive (at least to my untrained mind) knowledge of the Bible and so I missed the point and, as a result, missed heaven for too many years.

IMO, Scripture was written to/for believers, not the unsaved who cannot receive them (1 Cor. 2.14). Heck, I don’t think they can even understand them much less receive them.

That said, though, if you prefer quoting scriptures at unregenerate people, more power to you.

~Jim

 

[Johnny Be Good]

I'm really having a difficult time with this thread.

There is something fundamentally critical missing. Can you tell what it is? This is not rocket science, people!

I think that many people have given up on trying to hear from the Holy Spirit--I think they think that they never hear Him, or that it's difficult to hear Him, or that we can't be sure it's Him, so we better just formulate a plan and go with that. --At least these are the reasons that rear their ugly heads in my life.

When we do this, we aren't displaying God as God is--we're displaying our concept of God as we believe God is--we're displaying ourselves--and an inaccurate representation of God's perfection!

We can do nothing without Him. Ah--that means NOTHING!

It really isn't that hard to hear from the Holy Spirit--given that you spend enough time in the Word and in prayer. You don't have to wear out a Bible each year--just read a little when you get up, execute a structured, Biblical prayer time for those the Word says to pray for--and those you're led to pray for, then remain in contact with the Holy Spirit throughout the day. It's not difficult--it really isn't. Do you have a grateful heart? Act on it! Do you have compassion (as opposed to a desire based in some aspect of carnality)? Act upon your compassion. If you've decided that it's easier to just do what YOU think is best in your 'Christian' walk, take a breather. Ask God what to do--He'll tell you!

It's almost like we don't need Him any more. We've got the 'ol bean--we should be using it, right?! We can do nothing without Him.

I submit that we step back and take a look at our motives for why we believe for or against quoting scripture to unbelievers. How many of us would say that God would never have us quote scripture to unbelievers--sheesh?!

 

[Hungree]

If, as the Bible says, the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned (see 1 Cor. 2.14 in several versions), and since there is nothing quite so “spiritually discerned” as Scripture, what is the point of quoting scriptures to nonbelievers?

Wouldn’t you say that it is best to simply tell your story to a nonbeliever than to, say, try to reason with him out of the scripture?

When I was in my unsaved teens, a faithful preacher would sometimes catch me and start firing scriptures at me (probably the Roman Road, or something). Honestly, he might as well have been quoting out of the original Greek for all I understood – it was all Greek to me, anyhow.

It seems Paul, in Acts, when witnessing to before people (Agrippa, Festus, Felix) simply told the story of his conversion. He saved discussing scripture for believers, biblically knowledgeable people.

What do you think?

~Jim

I think that it depends on teh individual that you are talking to.

 

[Svt4Him]

Good point, S4, except the “seed” that is sowed is the “message of the kingdom” and that does not necessarily mean quoting proof texts, or as Danny put it, "spewing scriptures".

In Danny’s defense, “spewing scripture” means (to me) mechanically disgorging proof-texts like a machine, too often without heart or feeling. I have been victimized by such people who used memorized texts as a way of hammering someone into submission, either in witnessing or arguing.

When I was an unsaved college student, Brother Bob, the pastor at our local neighborhood fundamentalist church, would dutifully tote his big family-sized Bible from prospect to prospect giving them the “Word of God”. He cornered me more than once, sat me down, opened his well-worn pages and took me down the Roman Road. I would look at him, nod as though I understood what he was saying and when he got to the part where he was supposed to “close the sale” I would tell him I, um, wasn’t ready. He would say, “Well, doesn’t all this make sense?” I would nod and lie and say, “Yeah, but …” Actually, to my unregenerate mind, I did not have a clue what most of the stuff he had read meant. If the faithful pastor would have just laid his Bible aside and told me what Christ meant to him and gave me to story of the Lord has done for him I might have made my commitment years sooner. At least I would have thought it really meant something to him and would have understood him. Instead, I was more impressed with Brother Bob’s command of scripture than I was of what he was driving at. He failed (IMO) to offer me Jesus so much as he offered me his impressive (at least to my untrained mind) knowledge of the Bible and so I missed the point and, as a result, missed heaven for too many years.

IMO, Scripture was written to/for believers, not the unsaved who cannot receive them (1 Cor. 2.14). Heck, I don’t think they can even understand them much less receive them.

That said, though, if you prefer quoting scriptures at unregenerate people, more power to you.

~Jim

Well let's look at that parable a bit then, and see what it actually says. The seed is the word from Heaven. I know of few people who will say that this is not God's word. So what is the word of heaven, as this is a pretty important issue. When Jesus was preaching, His message was the Kingdom message, or the heavenly message, and it was repent and believe. I don't really think that you will find the words from Heaven are different than the word of God, so perhaps you can say what it is? And don't be doing any hermeneutical gymnastics on this one, apply the same principles you would use on understanding any passage. If we believe the word from Heaven is God’s word, then where was it sown? The passage is clear that it is sown in the world. What you are saying is some don’t understand the word, so don’t sow it, but Jesus said there were some who did understand it, and it produced fruit. Those who didn’t understand it had their reasons, but Jesus is not saying don’t sow the word, He’s talking about the fact that some won’t understand it, or some will accept it but walk away. I can get nothing from this passage that says it was wrong to sow the word, yet you are saying don’t. You may quote Revelations and talk about our testimony, but that verse is talking about us overcoming ‘him’ or the devil (and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), and not loving their lives unto the death, whereas this parable, which Jesus Himself explains, says the word should go out into the earth. Again I think that we should not make the Bible fit what we think is right, I think we should change to fit the Bible.



See, I personally think this is a way of making the gospel not an offense to those who are perishing. We want to coat it with honey, so people feel good about themselves and believe. Yet Jesus lost about 98% of His followers one time because His sayings were not honey coated. He lost a rich young ruler that most people would have run after to ‘lessen the blow’ of what Jesus was saying. Can you tell me what you would have said to the rich young ruler if he asked you what he must do to be saved? Would you have made him feel comfortable and happy with himself, while Jesus made him go away sad? Something to think about.

 

[JimB]

Well let's look at that parable a bit then, and see what it actually says. The seed is the word from Heaven. I know of few people who will say that this is not God's word. So what is the word of heaven, as this is a pretty important issue. When Jesus was preaching, His message was the Kingdom message, or the heavenly message, and it was repent and believe. I don't really think that you will find the words from Heaven are different than the word of God, so perhaps you can say what it is? And don't be doing any hermeneutical gymnastics on this one, apply the same principles you would use on understanding any passage. If we believe the word from Heaven is God’s word, then where was it sown? The passage is clear that it is sown in the world. What you are saying is some don’t understand the word, so don’t sow it, but Jesus said there were some who did understand it, and it produced fruit. Those who didn’t understand it had their reasons, but Jesus is not saying don’t sow the word, He’s talking about the fact that some won’t understand it, or some will accept it but walk away. I can get nothing from this passage that says it was wrong to sow the word, yet you are saying don’t. You may quote Revelations and talk about our testimony, but that verse is talking about us overcoming ‘him’ or the devil (and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong), and not loving their lives unto the death, whereas this parable, which Jesus Himself explains, says the word should go out into the earth. Again I think that we should not make the Bible fit what we think is right, I think we should change to fit the Bible.



See, I personally think this is a way of making the gospel not an offense to those who are perishing. We want to coat it with honey, so people feel good about themselves and believe. Yet Jesus lost about 98% of His followers one time because His sayings were not honey coated. He lost a rich young ruler that most people would have run after to ‘lessen the blow’ of what Jesus was saying. Can you tell me what you would have said to the rich young ruler if he asked you what he must do to be saved? Would you have made him feel comfortable and happy with himself, while Jesus made him go away sad? Something to think about.

Well, not being an expert on anything, I checked some commentaries to see what men more knowledgeable than I had to say about what the “seed", the “message of the kingdom”, is in Matthew 13.19. As usual, there is a difference of opinion (sigh!, just like here on CF), some saying, as you do, that the 'seed' is the Word of God, some saying it is the message about the Kingdom, others saying it is the word of Christ, still others saying it is the Good News of the Gospel.

I happen to agree with John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible: “Hence it appears, that by the "seed" in the parable is meant the Gospel, called the "word of the kingdom": because it treats of the king Messiah, of his person, office, and grace; and of his kingdom, and the administration of it by him, under the present dispensation; of the kingdom of grace saints enjoy now, and of the kingdom of heaven they shall enter into hereafter, through the grace and righteousness of Christ.” You probably do not agree with that completely.

So, we are back where we started. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what this means. But thanks for your thoughtful views.

~Jim

 

[JimB]

I'm really having a difficult time with this thread.

There is something fundamentally critical missing. Can you tell what it is? This is not rocket science, people!

I think that many people have given up on trying to hear from the Holy Spirit--I think they think that they never hear Him, or that it's difficult to hear Him, or that we can't be sure it's Him, so we better just formulate a plan and go with that. --At least these are the reasons that rear their ugly heads in my life.

When we do this, we aren't displaying God as God is--we're displaying our concept of God as we believe God is--we're displaying ourselves--and an inaccurate representation of God's perfection!

We can do nothing without Him. Ah--that means NOTHING!

It really isn't that hard to hear from the Holy Spirit--given that you spend enough time in the Word and in prayer. You don't have to wear out a Bible each year--just read a little when you get up, execute a structured, Biblical prayer time for those the Word says to pray for--and those you're led to pray for, then remain in contact with the Holy Spirit throughout the day. It's not difficult--it really isn't. Do you have a grateful heart? Act on it! Do you have compassion (as opposed to a desire based in some aspect of carnality)? Act upon your compassion. If you've decided that it's easier to just do what YOU think is best in your 'Christian' walk, take a breather. Ask God what to do--He'll tell you!

It's almost like we don't need Him any more. We've got the 'ol bean--we should be using it, right?! We can do nothing without Him.

I submit that we step back and take a look at our motives for why we believe for or against quoting scripture to unbelievers. How many of us would say that God would never have us quote scripture to unbelievers--sheesh?!

I have no problem with this view. Sounds convincing to me, so long as we are careful not to judge others’ motives..

~Jim

 

[Svt4Him]

Well, not being an expert on anything, I checked some commentaries to see what men more knowledgeable than I had to say about what the “seed", the “message of the kingdom”, is in Matthew 13.19. As usual, there is a difference of opinion (sigh!, just like here on CF), some saying, as you do, that the 'seed' is the Word of God, some saying it is the message about the Kingdom, others saying it is the word of Christ, still others saying it is the Good News of the Gospel.

I happen to agree with John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible: “Hence it appears, that by the "seed" in the parable is meant the Gospel, called the "word of the kingdom": because it treats of the king Messiah, of his person, office, and grace; and of his kingdom, and the administration of it by him, under the present dispensation; of the kingdom of grace saints enjoy now, and of the kingdom of heaven they shall enter into hereafter, through the grace and righteousness of Christ.” You probably do not agree with that completely.

So, we are back where we started. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what this means. But thanks for your thoughtful views.

~Jim

I like an appeal to authority as much as the next one, but what exactly do you think it means when Jesus Himself explained that the seed was the word, and it fell on some people who didn't understand it, some people who understood it a bit, but didn't go deep enough, some people who received it but it got chocked out with the worries of the world, and some who received it and it produced fruit? What exactly produces fruit, what is something that is not understood by some, and satan will come steal it away? Sorry, it seems pretty clear to me. But if it is the word of God, then to say it shouldn't be spoken would actually be going against the word of God, would it not?

 

[Johnny Be Good]

I have no problem with this view. Sounds convincing to me, so long as we are careful not to judge others’ motives..

~Jim

What "view" are you referring to?

 

[Wolf Georges]

I'm really having a difficult time with this thread.

There is something fundamentally critical missing. Can you tell what it is? This is not rocket science, people!

I think that many people have given up on trying to hear from the Holy Spirit--I think they think that they never hear Him, or that it's difficult to hear Him, or that we can't be sure it's Him, so we better just formulate a plan and go with that. --At least these are the reasons that rear their ugly heads in my life.

When we do this, we aren't displaying God as God is--we're displaying our concept of God as we believe God is--we're displaying ourselves--and an inaccurate representation of God's perfection!

We can do nothing without Him. Ah--that means NOTHING!

It really isn't that hard to hear from the Holy Spirit--given that you spend enough time in the Word and in prayer. You don't have to wear out a Bible each year--just read a little when you get up, execute a structured, Biblical prayer time for those the Word says to pray for--and those you're led to pray for, then remain in contact with the Holy Spirit throughout the day. It's not difficult--it really isn't. Do you have a grateful heart? Act on it! Do you have compassion (as opposed to a desire based in some aspect of carnality)? Act upon your compassion. If you've decided that it's easier to just do what YOU think is best in your 'Christian' walk, take a breather. Ask God what to do--He'll tell you!

It's almost like we don't need Him any more. We've got the 'ol bean--we should be using it, right?! We can do nothing without Him.

I submit that we step back and take a look at our motives for why we believe for or against quoting scripture to unbelievers. How many of us would say that God would never have us quote scripture to unbelievers--sheesh?!

Why does everything need to be viewed in such extremes?
I don't think anyone suggested never quoting scripture to non-believers. I know I haven't. However, coming out of the gate quoting the Word to a person who has not come to the point in their life where they are Saved can have the negative effect of repelling people. I don't think it's the message....I think it's the messenger. I do agree that we can't do anything without God. I guess I'm just confused why you seem to be so opposed to bringing nonbelievers to Christ through Christian actions and word...not necessarily the Word. When the person is open to hear the Word, I think that's when you introduce Scripture.

 

[Svt4Him]

Why does everything need to be viewed in such extremes?
I don't think anyone suggested never quoting scripture to non-believers. I know I haven't. However, coming out of the gate quoting the Word to a person who has not come to the point in their life where they are Saved can have the negative effect of repelling people. I don't think it's the message....I think it's the messenger. I do agree that we can't do anything without God. I guess I'm just confused why you seem to be so opposed to bringing nonbelievers to Christ through Christian actions and word...not necessarily the Word. When the person is open to hear the Word, I think that's when you introduce Scripture.

How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear if no one tells them? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Honestly this is pretty cut and dry imo. Then the issue is how it is said, I agree 100%. Jesus had compassion even when people like the rich young ruler didn't listen.

 

[Wolf Georges]

How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear if no one tells them? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Honestly this is pretty cut and dry imo. Then the issue is how it is said, I agree 100%. Jesus had compassion even when people like the rich young ruler didn't listen.

If this approach is working for you than I say God Bless you, keep preaching brother. In my experience, on both ends of the preaching spectrum, it has not served well. Once my eyes were open I couldn't get enough of hearing Scripture preached but before I arrived at this point the Word could not get through to me. Despite the fact that my coming to God was not done through conventional preaching, here I am. Praise God! IMO as long as the message you give a person is not at odds with God's message and you are able to bring them home all is well. Once they are on the path of Salvation, God's will is served and they will happily devour Scripture.

 

[JimB]

I like an appeal to authority as much as the next one, but what exactly do you think it means when Jesus Himself explained that the seed was the word, and it fell on some people who didn't understand it, some people who understood it a bit, but didn't go deep enough, some people who received it but it got chocked out with the worries of the world, and some who received it and it produced fruit? What exactly produces fruit, what is something that is not understood by some, and satan will come steal it away? Sorry, it seems pretty clear to me. But if it is the word of God, then to say it shouldn't be spoken would actually be going against the word of God, would it not?

You read “word” from the KJV/NKJV and I read “message” from the NIV/NLT. Actually, “logos” can mean either word or message according the A.H. Strong, A.T. Roberson, and W. E. Vine.

Jesus meant (IMO) that some will not grasp the concept of the Gospel of Grace at all, some will sort of catch on, and some really do.

~Jim

 

[Johnny Be Good]

How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear if no one tells them? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Honestly this is pretty cut and dry imo. Then the issue is how it is said, I agree 100%. Jesus had compassion even when people like the rich young ruler didn't listen.

Agreed.

Why does everything need to be viewed in such extremes?
I don't think anyone suggested never quoting scripture to non-believers. I know I haven't. However, coming out of the gate quoting the Word to a person who has not come to the point in their life where they are Saved can have the negative effect of repelling people. I don't think it's the message....I think it's the messenger. I do agree that we can't do anything without God. I guess I'm just confused why you seem to be so opposed to bringing nonbelievers to Christ through Christian actions and word...not necessarily the Word. When the person is open to hear the Word, I think that's when you introduce Scripture.

I'm definitely NOT opposed to obeying the Holy Spirit. The point that I was poorly attempting to get across was that, not only was the Holy Spirit not mentioned as the impetus for action, He was intentionally left out of the equation. Please excuse me--I do tend to fly off the handle instead of simply kicking back and watching sheep be led to slaughter! Admittedly, I am very wrong for not immediately praying for intervention, and instead jumping into action OF MY OWN WILL, as was the individual I attacked: he was promoting NOT using scripture to share the Gospel, then leaving out the Holy Spirit's role!! Not a mere oversight--ask him whether healing is in the atonement!

--no, DON'T!!!


What is the verdict, by the way? Should we be in tune with the Holy Spirit, speaking what He'd have us speak, or should we use our own judgment and attempt to save the non believer by ourselves?!

 

[JimB]

How can they believe unless they hear, and how can they hear if no one tells them? Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Honestly this is pretty cut and dry imo. Then the issue is how it is said, I agree 100%. Jesus had compassion even when people like the rich young ruler didn't listen.

Again, it depends on which version of Rom. 10.17 you read. For example the NIV says “the word of Christ”. That could not be the Bible because the New Testament had not yet been written when these words were first penned. How could the Romans have had faith without the New Testament, if the word of Christ means the Bible. Most commentators believe that the “word” (in this case rhema, a word,not logos, the word) of Christ is the Gospel of Grace.

The NLT translates this phrase “the message of the Good News”.

The CEV translates it “the message about Christ”.

~Jim

 

[New_Wineskin]

I submit that we step back and take a look at our motives for why we believe for or against quoting scripture to unbelievers. How many of us would say that God would never have us quote scripture to unbelievers--sheesh?!

I agree with your main point . I am not sure how you got to the extension which I didn't agree with . However , I was always thinking along the lines of the main point of your post - witnessing according to the leading of the Spirit .

That said , I wouldnt' say that the Lord would *never* have me quote a passage to an unbeliever . I would say that I won't quote one unless I knew that He wanted me to do so .