Quote from Hank Hanegraaff - Let's Discuss

[JimB]

CiC was a pack of lies an twisted half truths.

I agree that HH often presents half-truths (the half he wants to believe) but even then we should not dismiss everything that he says when he points his criticism at our preferred group. But there is still some “truth” even in half-truths. If there is any substance in what he says we, even when we don’t want to hear it, it is to our advantage to listen to it. God may again be using a Philistine (with all due respect to HH) to bring correction to His people.

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

 

[Always in His Presence]

I agree that HH often presents half-truths (the half he wants to believe) but even then we should not dismiss everything that he says when he points his criticism at our preferred group. But there is still some “truth” even in half-truths. If there is any substance in what he says we, even when we don’t want to hear it, it is to our advantage to listen to it. God may again be using a Philistine (with all due respect to HH) to bring correction to His people.

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

Perhaps you can help us by sharing how Hank's comments on the Vinyard has helped correct you?

 

[JimB]

Perhaps you can help us by sharing how Hank's comments on the Vinyard has helped correct you?

Why would I want to air dirty laundry in front of you, B?

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

 

[geetrue]

I don't need or require Hank or his books to shape or inspire my views of them.

I tesxted Hank, I found him right.

Every single time I tune into TBN, or a "Praise A Thon"
I heard for myself in all context what they said.

This was with my own eyes and ears,
my own heart testing these things and with scripture in hand to test even my heart.

I found them false.
Regardless of the good they have done, regardless of any good works.

The red reads, me, my and I.

You use the word "I" too much Atlantians ... "I" is ego and ego is God. Try to let God see through you, let the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit of God that wrote the Holy Bible in the men of old, the Spirit of Truth, the light of God's love, our oneness with God, in the name of His son Jesus, our Lord operate through you.

All of those pastors and preachers you are mad at and have mentioned as being on TBN are doing God's will according to God, not according to you.

They are asking for money for ministry to the Body of Christ. They are asking and they are receiving funds from others (not yourself of course) from people that beleive it is the Lord moving in their lives to fund a particular ministry.

I fear to state an example, because no matter who I mentioned you would jump on them for asking for money from people tuned into Christian television.

They send in the money and the body of Christ grows because of it. They exercise their faith by sending in funds and you exercise your faith by not sending in funds.

Let God flow through you ... say out loud, "I will not let me get in the way of you Lord"

Hey! I like that I'll start doing it first ...

 

[geetrue]

I agree that HH often presents half-truths (the half he wants to believe) but even then we should not dismiss everything that he says when he points his criticism at our preferred group. But there is still some “truth” even in half-truths. If there is any substance in what he says we, even when we don’t want to hear it, it is to our advantage to listen to it. God may again be using a Philistine (with all due respect to HH) to bring correction to His people.

~Jim

There was no need to search too far for this scripture. I wonder why?

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire by hell. For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and creature of the sea, is tamed and has been tamed by mankind. But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring send forth fresh water and bitter from the same opening? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Thus no spring yields both salt water and fresh.


Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. ​

 

[ProdicalChristian]

Most Christian denominations and movements share common beliefs in the major aspects of the Christian faith, while differing in many secondary doctrines. Christians believe what the Bible teaches in context which are the basics of what Christians believe and unite on.

My concept of Word of Faith is that they focuses on works in terms of "faith" towards health, wealth and prosperity. I don't view these as the essentials of Christian life and practice. Our motives in our Christian lives should be both holy and genuine. We are to present our bodies "as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God" (see Romans 12:1-2).

I reject Word of Faith doctrines for many reasons. Its a long list. If its a long list, then the doctrines they believe are not essentials for my relationship with God.

 

[Codger]

It disturbs me when one preacher slams another preacher so specifically. I think it's more appropriate to pick apart pros and cons on a forum, with an assumption that each person holds a bit of truth.

A preacher has a captive audience, often a loyal following, and has little need to convince his parishioners or tv groupies of the wrongs of another ministry's leader. It is one thing to address a specific teaching someone gave, but another to say an entire ministry does not come under the umbrella of Saved.

Me too! I avoid HH myself (just like I once did with James Bakker), mainly because of the negative, caustic and inflammatory rhetoric coming from his so called ministry. Actually his “ministry” at CRI was hijacked from Dr. Walter Martin (The Kingdom of the Cults) when he died. HH was later publicly renounced by Martin's wife Darlene.

http://www.waltermartin.org/cri.html

I really made up my mind one Wednesday evening (about 1997) when I was going to my WoF Church and I turned on the radio in my car and it was HH simply ridiculing the founder of WoF. There was not a shred of substance in what he was saying. He was simply just causing strife and contention. Who is the accuser of the brethren anyway? There is nothing better that the accuser likes than to find some true faults to blend in with the lies. I couldn't believe that our local Christian radio station was broadcasting this garbage. I said under my breath – Lord what do you think of this? But I really never expected to hear an answer on this.

To my surprise I did get an unexpected answer to my question that very night. I had a dream – video only – no sound. In this dream I was on a low balcony and slightly below me and close by was the Lord himself and he was standing very closely face-to-face talking to the founder of the WoF movement. They were chatting just like two old friends laughing and gesturing. I hadn't really up to that time pictured Jesus as being simple, engaged in conversation, smiling, with cheerful intimate levity. This went on for less than a minute and then a man walked into this picture – it was HH! When I looked at him he stood there speechless with a straight face and his arms hanging down. When I saw him I was overcome with the emotion of intense shame. End of dream. In God's kingdom there are vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor.

HH has no room to criticize anyone else because he has his own closet full of corruption. (See Martin's site above) Besides there is a procedure to follow if you have a problem with a brother – go directly to the individual and do not air your gripes on the public airwaves.

Lauren

 

[ProdicalChristian]

If I have come up with LONG list of doctrines that I disagree of a movement or denomination, I will consider this a cult.

 

[Atlantians]

The red reads, me, my and I.

You use the word "I" too much Atlantians.

I use I when speaking of personal experience.
You are reading into it what isn't there.

I am not going to dogmatically assert:
"God has tested Hank and found him true!"
or
"The Bible has tested Hank and found him true!"

"I" is ego and ego is God.

What?!

Do you even know what the word ego means?

Are you talking about the Latin word or the english word?
Either way that sentence made no sense.

Try to let God see through you,

Eh?

let the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit of God that wrote the Holy Bible in the men of old, the Spirit of Truth, the light of God's love, our oneness with God, in the name of His son Jesus, our Lord operate through you.

And you have the authority to say he isn't already?

All of those pastors and preachers you are mad at and have mentioned as being on TBN are doing God's will according to God, not according to you.

This sound all so pious, but it is simply another version of the "Touch not mine anointed" clause.
"They are God's ministers! Who are you to say they are wrong? Huh? huh?"

Fraudulency, lies, whoring the Bible for financial gain, telling people to send all their money, their only money, to support a TV program, or saying things like "If you want a Miracle, pick up that phone and send money to TBN."
Those words, or ones like them, have come over the air of that TV station almost every time I have ever watched them.
Especially durring their dubiously named: "praise a thon"s.

They are asking for money for ministry to the Body of Christ. They are asking and they are receiving funds from others (not yourself of course) from people that beleive it is the Lord moving in their lives to fund a particular ministry.

The fact that you are piosly asserting yourself over me, and religiously acting as if these men are anointed or something, and then acting like I have no right to speak against them, is just religious dogma, and nothing less.

I fear to state an example, because no matter who I mentioned you would jump on them for asking for money from people tuned into Christian television.

I do not care about people asking for money, Hank does it all the time, but he does it honestly.
He doesn't sell the crowd miracles , healings, and myths.

Greg Laurie does it, my own Church does it.
That isn't the issue here and you should know that.

My issue is with people manipulating people and selling the Gospel In fact whoring the Gospel and twisting it around their finger to get money.

This is not honsetly asking for gifts:

They send in the money and the body of Christ grows because of it. They exercise their faith by sending in funds and you exercise your faith by not sending in funds.

What is this supposed to mean?
It makes little sense.

How can one "exercise faith" by doing nothing?

Are you insinuating that I don't have faith because I am opposed to these people?

Let God flow through you ... say out loud, "I will not let me get in the way of you Lord"

Pious nonsense.

 

[JimB]

This is a familiar ruse, Atlantians. If the debate gets difficult, some want to make it personal, make it about you, and then the attention can be truned away from an unanswerable objection to a weak position.

Don’t let them make it about you, A. Stick to the topic. That always befuddles ‘em.

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

 

[Atlantians]

This is a familiar ruse, Atlantians. If the debate gets difficult, some want to make it personal, make it about you, and then the attention can be truned away from an unanswerable objection to a weak position.

Don’t let them make it about you, A. Stick to the topic. That always befuddles ‘em.

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

He befuddled me with so many nonsensical sentences.

"I" is I and I is God? Eh!?



The piont of all of this is:
Hank has done good. He has also not done best or perfectly.
He is a man, he is fallible.

He has also been used by God in peoples lives, especially mine.

I could not have stood firm for the past 4 years in High School without God using him to strengthen me against the intellectual deceit of Secularism and Liberalism. Atheism and falsehoods.

So all of you who have come so against him, I find it interesting that you accuse him of being "an accuser of the bretheren" a "dark cloud", ect.
Is that not what you say he does to others? If it is acceptable to critisize him on a personal and spiritual level, saying he would be shamed by God when all these WoF leaders are having Coffee with God in heaven or whatever, judging him on such a personal level, is he not therefore much more justified to denounce mere doctrines?

I am a truth based person. I hate lies, I hate deceit, I hate people being blind to one side of the story and loving the other side with a passion.

This is why I have watched Benny Hinn, Rod Parsley, Praise-A-Thons.
I did not want to take Hanks word for anything about them.

I have seen where they have been misconstrued.

But, strangley enough, I have on several occassions saw a program, then later heard Hank analize a section of it, and what did I discover? It was not out of context. It was accurate and on target.

A few pages back someone talked about all these misquotations and statements out of context.

I want to know how he has taken people out of contexty and made them say what they never said.

I don't doubt it has happened.
But I don't assume it has either.

I want the truth, and nothing else on these matters.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Why would I want to air dirty laundry in front of you, B?

You certainly entertain airing dirty laundry when it comes to people and groups you do NOT agree with.

I thought you were honest enough to treat everybody the same. My mistake.

 

[JimB]

You certainly entertain airing dirty laundry when it comes to people and groups you do NOT agree with.

I thought you were honest enough to treat everybody the same. My mistake.

Okay, let me put it another way:

Why would I want to air MY dirty laundry in front of someone like you?

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

 

[ProdicalChristian]

Okay, let me put it another way:

Why would I want to air MY dirty laundry in front of someone like you?

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

That's what I was thinking. Its interesting how people play things out.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Okay, let me put it another way:

Why would I want to air MY dirty laundry in front of someone like you?

LOL!

 

[Atlantians]

I don't air mine, I use a Dryer and Bounce...
oh wait... was this a figurative discussion? Oops.


But... seriously... I come in here to see if Balance has said something to something I said and I see talk of laundry?!

 

[charityagape]

Okay, let me put it another way:

Why would I want to air MY dirty laundry in front of someone like you?

~Jim

Integrity has no need of rules.​

So I guess you wouldn't mind if someone else aired your dirty laundry to make a point about what vineyard could learn from HH's criticism?

 

[Greatcloud]

Why is it HH's job to criticize WOF or the Toronto revival ? Why doesn't he criticize the Catholic church or Methodists ? Why does he pick on those streams of the church who believe in a strong work of the Spirit for today ? Could it be he has issues with the work of the Spirit ?

Isn't he shamelessly pandering and making a name for himself from the move of the Spirit. Doesn't he tear down something he does not understand, and has not experienced. We do not need HH and his correction, all groups he attacks have access to and structure in place,for correction and Godly rebuke.

I believe it is audacity and hubris on the part of HH to think his interpretation of the Bible is so correct. I see that HH and that stream have a ridged and limited interpretation of the Bible. I am not questioning that HH and that stream know what the Bible says.​

 

[victoryword]

Well, this started off as a nice civil thread. All it took was one rabid anti-wofer to make it degenerate into a nasty attack. Thanks Atlantians and a few others for that. Oh, and thank YOU Jim for the usual hypocrasies.

 

[geetrue]

Why is it HH's job to criticize WOF or the Toronto revival ? ​

Could it be he has issues with the work of the Spirit ?​

Isn't he shamelessly pandering and making a name for himself from the move of the Spirit. ​

We do not need HH and his correction, all groups he attacks have access to and structure in place,for correction and Godly rebuke.​

I see that HH and that stream have a ridged and limited interpretation of the Bible. I am not questioning that HH and that stream know what the Bible says.

I agree with that post ...


Either HH is wrong and the men and women of the faith movement, which includes the workings and manifestation of the Holy Spirit are right.

Backwards flip, but says the same thing.

Either HH is right and the men and women of the faith movement, which includes the workings and the manifestations of the Holy Spirit are wrong.

One is right and one is wrong ...

But as silly as it sounds God can be seen in all of this, right?

We the underlings are the ones having a problem, not God.

God tested the Hebrew children in the desert, but they didn't have the same hindsight their story in the old testament gives us ... don't think the same God is not testing you.