Quick Question Concerning Mary

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

Hey, you said that Luther said nothing about it. I showed otherwise. Now you quickly dodge over to the confessions?

Regardless, its an opinion. Something I privately hold. You know, something about adiaphora and all that...

Click to expand...

Yes, and that was my mistake. I was thinking of the Confessions.


Are you intending on working toward a doctorate degree? I honestly and sincerely think you should.

DaRev said:

Yeah, I guess people have those. But he referred to them as his "dogmas" which puts a little more emphasis than does "pious opinion."

Click to expand...

Dogma:
1.a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.
2.a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.
3.prescribed doctrine: political dogma.
4.a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.
GCC can confirm when he's coherent again, but I'm thinking he meant in the fourth sense, especially when combined with the adjective "personal."

Melethiel said:

Dogma:
1.a system of principles or tenets, as of a church.
2.a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church: the dogma of the Assumption.
3.prescribed doctrine: political dogma.
4.a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle.
GCC can confirm when he's coherent again, but I'm thinking he meant in the fourth sense, especially when combined with the adjective "personal."

Click to expand...

Gotchya.

I gotta watch myself around you smartalecky kids. You're on the ball!

DaRev said:

Gotchya.

I gotta watch myself around you smartalecky kids. You're on the ball!

Click to expand...

Yeah, the guy is dangerous...he's even got me reading political theory!

Melethiel said:

Yeah, the guy is dangerous...he's even got me reading political theory!

Click to expand...

Oooo... it must be love.

JK

DaRev said:

Again, the term "semper virgo" or "ever virgin" do not appear in the original Smalcald Articles and thus is a straw man. You can stop quoting that now.

Click to expand...

And again, many Lutheran scholars disagree with you.


This also was quite interesting By Pastor Paul McCain (LC-MS)...


In the Lutheran blogosphere a bit of a storm has broken out over the question of whether or not the Blessed Virgin Mary remained ever virgin after giving birth to our Lord. This becomes such an emotional issue for a variety of reasons. The vast majority of Lutherans today, particularly laypersons, have never even heard of the belief, long held in the Christian church, and believed by Lutherans for many generations after the Reformation, that Mary remained a virgin after giving birth to our Lord. This belief is known by Latin shorthand as "semper virgo" or "always virgin." The Lutheran Confessions simply assume it to be true. Martin Luther, Martin Chemnitz and virtually all Lutherans in the 16th century and throughout the Age of Lutheran Orthodoxy believed it. The first president of The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, Dr. C.F.W. Walther firmly and passionately believed it, taught it, and confessed it.

It wasn't really until the 20th century came along that belief in the semper virgo, by Lutherans, began to be widely questioned and now, today, some take great offense at the idea that Mary remained every virgin, even regarding the semper virgo with open disdain and hostility. Could it be that heights of Marian idolatry that reachd its zenith in the 20th century caused many to shy away from the semper virgo?

So, fast forward to recent years. A renewed passion for the Lutheran Confessions among pastors in the Missouri Synod has caused many to take a second look at the Semper Virgo and wonder why it is that a belief taken for granted by the Lutheran Church in its Confessions and in its greatest theologians fell out of such favor, so rapidly in the 20th century.


Do the Lutheran Confessions in fact put forward the semper virgo as a clearly articulated doctrinal assertion? C.F.W. Walther thought they did. Francis Pieper, his heir and successor in the position of both chief dogmatician of the Synod, and also serving as president of The LCMS, took a bit more of a moderating position. His views on the issue of the semper virgo are set forth in his great dogmatics text "Christian Dogmatics."




Finally, I am reticent to dismiss the semper virgo quickly simply because of the fact that so many of my fathers in the faith did embrace it, even while at the very same time strenously, and clearly, rejecting the cult of Mary that infested Medieval Romanism. What the Lutheran Confessions regard as a "given" on an issue like this does give me reason not to reject the semper virgo , even while I do retain some reservations.


Q

DaRev said:

Yes, and that was my mistake. I was thinking of the Confessions.


Are you intending on working toward a doctorate degree? I honestly and sincerely think you should.

Click to expand...

Ha, danke. I just might.

DaRev said:

Oooo... it must be love.

JK

Click to expand...

Haha!

DaRev said:

Oooo... it must be love.

JK

Click to expand...

Bad DaRev. 40 lashes with a wet noodle for you. We're eloping tomorrow, but now you're not invited.

Melethiel said:

Bad DaRev. 40 lashes with a wet noodle for you. We're eloping tomorrow, but now you're not invited.

Click to expand...

Here's a picture of GCC galloping up on his horse to take Mel from her tower....

synger said:

Here's a picture of GCC galloping up on his horse to take Mel from her tower....

Click to expand...

Haha! Are those rats crawling counterclockwise on the circumfrence?

And just to keep the thread on track, we'll have Ave Maria sung at the ceremony!

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

And just to keep the thread on track, we'll have Ave Maria sung at the ceremony!

Click to expand...

Well, I'm glad I'm not invited. I cry when I hear that. It was my mother's favorite hymn. That and Beethoven's "Pathetique" played on an organ.

DaRev said:

Well, I'm glad I'm not invited. I cry when I hear that. It was my mother's favorite hymn. That and Beethoven's "Pathetique" played on an organ.

Click to expand...

I can simpathize with Pathetique.

That and Beethoven's "Pathetique" played on an organ.

Click to expand...

I take it you mean the second movement, because the first movement is definitely not something that would work well on organ.

Melethiel said:

I take it you mean the second movement, because the first movement is definitely not something that would work well on organ.

Click to expand...

Yes, the Adagio Cantabile.