Questions....

[traveller]

Peace!
i asked these questions in another thread but have not recieved any anwers....i would really appreciate any answers, comments, thoughts

- if Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?
- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?
- Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die? and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?
- And after Jesus dies where did God go?

please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Please give me a little time to pull together an answer for you.
I will try to give you a clear and accurate response.

 

[Bizzlebin Imperatoris]

Simple answers:

-We cannot commit any sins we want. We are supposed to try our best to be perfect like Jesus.

-God is three in one. Just because God the Son died doesn't mean God the Father died.

-Forgiveness was caused by Jesus' death, so it was necessary. Judgement is for those who cannot accept the simple truths that Jesus died for us, was God, etc.

-About where Jesus went when he died: Some say that before heaven and hell, one is stuck in a Hades type of place untill they can be judged, somewhat of a mirror of heaven and hell, whichever the person deserves. But thats just one theory. The important thing is He rose again, and we are saved.

 

[Wisdom's Child]

Peace!
i asked these questions in another thread but have not recieved any anwers....i would really appreciate any answers, comments, thoughts

These are some often difficult questions you ask, and they go deep into the heart of Christian Beliefs. Honestly most Christians have trouble with these areas because they don't know the answers themselves and are going on Faith.

If Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?

The Sacrifice that Jesus made of himself was the Redemption Price for the Sins of the World, It is a difficult concept to grasp, but think of it like a real estate situation. Sins are like Taxes, a form of Debt. If your in default on your taxes then anyone with the right amount of cash can Redeem the Debt, and the Land Holder would then be indebted to the Redeemer instead of the Government. It would then be up to the Redeemer to either Forgive the Debt or Forclose and Evict.

Basically as the Scriptures states, "The Wages of Sin is Death".
The Debt is incurred by breaking OT Law and the rebellious nature of Carnal Flesh. Christ the Redeemer "Paid in Full" that debt for All Creation.

Thus Heaven and Earth, and All Humanity is now in His Debt.
We Belong to Jesus, and are indebited to Him.
Jesus has been Given "All Power and Authority" over all Creation (Heaven and Earth) by His Father to acomplish this. As the Crown Prince and Heir to the Kingdom, once he was given "All Power and Authority" the Son of God effectively IS GOD of all Creation. Remember that throughout all the OT Scripture, it has always been "The Word of God" Jesus that has been seen and heard.

Under the Old Law, the World was already Condemned, Jesus bought us out of that Condemnation with His own Blood. He willingly Gave His Life so that We could Live.

Therefore as Christians we recognise that we Owe our Debt to Jesus.

So good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?

Jesus Died for those Sins, and is now the Debt Holder.
Remember that He is also the Judge of our fate, and that we have already been condemned. Jesus has the option to Forgive that Debt or allow the condemnation to proceed, based upon our willingness to do as He has asked, Recognise that He is the Redeemer, and allow Him to come into this "Condemned House" and Renovate it back into a Living Structure.

Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die? and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?

This is where the Persons of the Godhead, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit play a part.

The Father decreed Judgement and the Time that The Sentance will be Executed. (Judgement Day and Condemnation).

The Son stepped forward and paid the Redemtion Price, so that He could through His Grace, allow Forgiveness.

The Holy Spirit is the "Repair Crew" that on the OK from Jesus moves in and begins to bring the Sinner "Up to Code".

I for one Truely Believe that Jesus, Fully God and Fully Man, Died upon the Cross. This he did willingly to pay the Debt. And he did so by "Giving up the Spirit". His Resurection from the Dead is Evidence that the Price has been paid in Full, and he now Sits at the Right Hand of the Father,

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
1 Corinthians 15:25-28

And after Jesus dies where did God go?

Where God has always been...

Please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.

I hope that I have helped.

 

[Blessed-one]

Peace!
- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?

No. That is an abuse of the grace we received.
Faith --> Salvation --> deeds

"But someone will say, 'You have faith; I have deeds.' Show me your faith without deeds, and i will show you my faith by what i do. You believe there is one God. Good. Even the demons believe that - and shudder." - James 2:18-19

deeds are the fruits of our faith in Jesus Christ. Just like WC said about the Holy Spirit acting like a repair crew:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." - Galatians 5:22-23

the fact that Jesus has paid for our sin gives us no excuse to continue sinning, but we christians are not perfect being so long as we remain in this world. It is impossible for us to be completely like Jesus. Instead, what we do is to strive to be like Him.

 

[BarbB]

please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.[/size][/color][/font]

There are no ignorant questions! Especially here!

 

[Serapha]

Peace!
i asked these questions in another thread but have not recieved any anwers....i would really appreciate any answers, comments, thoughts

- if Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?
- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?
- Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die? and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?
- And after Jesus dies where did God go?

please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.

Hi there!



So glad to see your posting.... and you have already received several good replies...

- if Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?

Well, "since" Jesus died for our sins, then we acknowledge the "Great Commission" from the final chapter of Matthew.


16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


That's what Jesus told His disciples to do. I want to clarify verse 19... If you think in "English", then it is an imperative ... "Go!"... but in Greek, it isn't an imperative. It means, instead, "As you go" or "when you go"... meaning as you go wherever you go, teach everyone, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

All the time.... in all things... whenever.... wherever.... Christians are commanded to teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?

There is big difference between "good deeds", "no good deeds", and "committ sin".

We cannot take just one passage alone from the Bible, when there are others that go alongside the passage in the same subject. Concerning the "good deeds", that is a term that is called "works" for the Christian, and our "works" will be rewarded in heaven. That's an encouragement to some people to work harder at building God's kingdom.

Now... sin. The Bible tells us that if we are saved, we will not continue in sin. We become new creatures in and through Christ... our mindset is changed from what might we gain in this world, to what does God require of me.

- Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die?

That death and dying, is only the physical body that the incarnate Jesus used during his years on this earth. The victory to Christians is the resurrection of Jesus victorious over sin, death, and the grave. We have a blessed hope that we are promised that we shall be like him, and enjoy our own resurrection to be reconciled eternally with God in heaven.

God is the same yesterday, today and forever. He will never die. Yet, Jesus is also the same yesterday, today, and forever. He is "the Word". Since before the beginning of time, Jesus was God's Word, He became "flesh" to become the Living Word, and at his resurrection, He became the Eternal Living Word... but always "the Word". God is spirit, and the glorified Christ is spirit also, that Spirit never dies, even in the incarnate Christ, the Spirit lived.

and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?

Because forgiveness only comes from God when an atonement price has been paid. Always, always, there has been a blood sacrifice for the sins of mankind. When Christ became the final sacrifice, his blood paid the price for all of us to be redeemed. Judgment, as in the Bible, is for "works" and not a judgment of where we will spend eternity, for the judgments are after resurrections, which the resurrections are the judgments for sin, either the first resurrection of believers, or the second resurrection for the unbelievers.

- And after Jesus dies where did God go?

God is omnipresent, but the mind of God rests with God the Father on the throne in heaven.

I hope this helps with your understanding.


"Peace"


~serapha~

 

[12volt_man]

- if Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?

The purpose of life for the Christian is simply to know Christ and to make Him known and to enjoy fellowship with Him.

- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?

No. The whole point of being forgiven is that you have turned from a sinful lifestyle and have been made a new creature in Christ.

That's not to say that Christians don't sin, we do. The difference is that we are not to live a lifestyle of willful and deliberate sin.

If you have a Bible, read Paul's words to the Romans in Romans chapters 5 and 6. It will only take a moment but these two passages pretty much sum up the Bible's view of sin in the life of a Christian.

To paraphrase, he says, "Look, we know that where sin abounds, God's grace abounds even more but does this mean that we can sin all we like just because we know that God's grace is going to pick up the tab? Of course not! The whole reason Jesus died was so that we wouldn't be slaves to sin any longer."

- Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die?

Remember though, that Jesus has a dual nature of both God and man. It was not His divinity that died, but His human body, just as all human bodies will eventuall die.

and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?

So that we could be reconciled to Him.

- And after Jesus dies where did God go?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean what happened to Jesus' diety when His physical body was crucified?

please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.

They aren't ignorant at all. They're perfectly reasonable questions for someone looking into Christianity.

 

[Rafael]

Peace!

i asked these questions in another thread but have not recieved any anwers....i would really appreciate any answers, comments, thoughts



- if Jesus died for our sins, then for Christians the only purpose of living is to recognise that fact?

- so good deeds or no good deeds it does not really matter...we can committ sin knowing that Jesus has already died for those sins?

- Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean...because if Jesus was God, how can God die? and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?

- And after Jesus dies where did God go?



please forgive me for my ignorant questions but i am sincerely trying to understand the Christian point of view.

Peace to you also, and welcome:

Question 1: Jesus dies for our sins so that our sins would be forgiven and so we could be born spiritually, receiving new life from God. The old nature of sin and death we inherited from Adam can only be overcome by the spirit, which is eternal.
Our purpose is that same as from the begining, to have fellowship with God and to be His people and family. He has made us and then redeemed us for a price. We are twice His.

Question 2: No we cannot continue to purposely sin without repentance. This would be hypocrisy and lying against the truth. We have to show fruit that is consistant with the inward change that has occured when we are born of the Spirit of God. Although we never escape the sin that dwells in our flesh, this temporary habitation, we have a spirit that overcomes this nature and the blood of the lamb to cover our mistakes when we fail or fall, making a mistake. If the child of God falls, he never falls headlong because it is God that holds his hand. We are all called to repentance of sin and cannot mock God's gift of salvation and esteem the death of Jesus lightly with low regard.

Ps 37:24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Question 3: The Koran acknowledges the birth of Jesus as not being fathered from a man but from God. This birth, not having a human as father, is critical in understanding who Jesus is and how He could carry the sins of mankind. Not having inherited the sin nature from Adam, the father of all flesh, Jesus was able to live without ever committing even one sin. Jesus had as Father the Holy Spirit and inherited from His Father the nature of God. God never sins and neither did Jesus because He did not have the nature of man as His father.
The sacrifices for Israel in the Old Testament were to be without blemish. Jesus was the perfect lamb of God to be slain for the transgressions of all mankind because He was the only man able to not sin and bear man's responsibility for sin in sacrifice. Jesus was not only God but was also man. This was the only way that He could die for the sins of man and represent mankind. This twin nature was and is God's solution to man's fall into sin and death.
Being more than just in the frame of man, God is triune, and desribes Himself as plural from the begining, even in Genesis. It is to our benefit that God is not confined to the frame of man, but like His glory is too much for any one word, He is larger than any one person. How is God greater than man in this, being able to be three in one? We do not know, but I'm glad that He is not in our image, otherwise we would not have a redeemer like unto our salvation in Messiah.

Ge 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Ex 12:5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Sura 19:19 He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy. 20 She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste? 21 He said: Even so; your Lord says: It is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us, and it is a matter which has been decreed.

Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ge 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.

1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Isaiah speaking of Jesus, prophetically:
Isaiah 52:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Question 4: Jesus, after being resurrected by the Father, went and stayed with the disciples for a time, but then left to sit at the right hand of the Father with a promise to send His Holy Spirit to indwell and live inside the believer as a comforter and guide into all truth. This goes back, again, to God's ability to be more than a man in nature and transcend the feeble power of man's comprehension. He has promised to return and restore Israel and reign here on earth for a 1000 years with His saints - those who have believed on Him. Then He will return all things to the Father.
I hope this has helped you understand just part of how Christians hold to God in their beliefs.

Mat. 22;41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

 

[Emmy]

The questians being answered here,have been aswered well,may I also give my version;slightly differently put,but meaning the same.We know that God is Spirit,He can be everywhere at the same time.Jesus is Spirit of God`s Spirit,and became man,as it was prophesied in the old testament,to be the last blood-offering as atonement for all the sins(we,God`s Creation had committed)and thereafter God wanted no more blood offerings,He wanted our hearts and our love.Because Jesus paid the price in our place,we are free to go God Himself and ask forgiveness for all our sins we keep committing.God knows how hard it is to live in a fallen world without still falling into sin.The third part or person of the Holy Trinity,is the Holy Spirit,who was promised by Jesus to be our Comforter and Help if we need Him.Although most Christians,or perhaps all,try hard to become as God wants us to be,but it is not easy,especially if we try to be loving and obedient children of our Father in Heaven in our own strenght.Sincere greetings from Emmy,Your sister in Christ.

 

[traveller]

Thank-you all for your replies, however i still need more clarification...

Jesus has been Given "All Power and Authority" over all Creation (Heaven and Earth) by His Father to acomplish this. As the Crown Prince and Heir to the Kingdom, once he was given "All Power and Authority" the Son of God effectively IS GOD of all Creation. Remember that throughout all the OT Scripture, it has always been "The Word of God" Jesus that has been seen and heard.

Under the Old Law, the World was already Condemned, Jesus bought us out of that Condemnation with His own Blood. He willingly Gave His Life so that We could Live.

Therefore as Christians we recognise that we Owe our Debt to Jesus.

What i don't understand is if God is one in Three, i.e. Christianity is 'monotheistic', then why do CHristians believe He is in three parts, each clearly being independant of the other...the father, the son (who is noe sitting on the right with him) and the Holy spirit who gives comfort to people??Why would God send himself in the version of His son, who is God because he has power over all things, and shed his blood...sorry but i am confused. you say that jesus is God of all creation? then is the 'father not? what i mean is did the father create creation, then create his son, then pass on the responsibility of creation to his son?

the fact that Jesus has paid for our sin gives us no excuse to continue sinning

why then create sin and make the nature of man to sin? the fact still remains that every single human being will continue to sin, because Jesus died for it does not alter this fact?

The Bible tells us that if we are saved, we will not continue in sin. We become new creatures in and through Christ... our mindset is changed from what might we gain in this world, to what does God require of me.

again my point exactly - regardless of whether u r saved a human by its very nature does sin - no-one is free of it!!! yes a God-fearing soul works harder is is resilient but will still sin...so how then can the doctrine of the whole world be based on redemption...if we still by nature sin after believing in Christ and being 'saved'?

The old nature of sin and death we inherited from Adam can only be overcome by the spirit, which is eternal.
Our purpose is that same as from the begining, to have fellowship with God and to be His people and family. He has made us and then redeemed us for a price. We are twice His.

again sorry to keep asking the same - but Adam is human, and we are all his children and have same qualities, one being to go astray...in my mind it would make more sense to have a human example of overcoming sin - an example which everyone can relate to and try and emulate...humans can't emulate Jesus in my mind because he was 'diety' and 'diety' is free from sin, humans are not...so a human form of diety dying for our sins does not equate in my mind - any clarification plz?

The Koran acknowledges the birth of Jesus as not being fathered from a man but from God. This birth, not having a human as father, is critical in understanding who Jesus is and how He could carry the sins of mankind. Not having inherited the sin nature from Adam, the father of all flesh, Jesus was able to live without ever committing even one sin. Jesus had as Father the Holy Spirit and inherited from His Father the nature of God. God never sins and neither did Jesus because He did not have the nature of man as His father

The Qur'an acknowledges that Jesus was born of a virgin mother - but it nowhere states that he was fathered from God. what the Qur'an says is,

"She [Mary] said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!" [3:47]

God can do anything he woshes, it is not difficult for him create life, He only has to say Be!

The Qur'an also does not favour Jesus over Adam, God says;

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." [3:59]

Adam never had a father or a mother? - how was he created? was he special too?

You say that Jesus had as a father the Holy spirit...so from this i take it that Christians do believe that God Begets...? so in my mind this negates monotheism

Being more than just in the frame of man, God is triune, and desribes Himself as plural from the begining, even in Genesis

So God is not One?...

 

[Hitokiri Shadow]

why then create sin and make the nature of man to sin?

God did not create sin. God gave man free will. With that free will, they chose to disobey God. That is what sin is: going against God's Law. Sin was a direct result of man.

the fact still remains that every single human being will continue to sin, because Jesus died for it does not alter this fact?

Correct. Jesus sacrifice does not mean that no one will sin anymore. But that was not the purpose of His Sacrifice.

 

[BenjaminK]

May I offer some thoughts as well

1st question
As Augustine once said "You have made us and directed us toward Yourself and our heart is restless until we rest in You." [You, here refers to God.]
Our purpose for living is to know God. Christianity is a relationship between a loving God and His people. Knowing God includes knowing His death and resurrection as Apostle Paul who considered his past as dung compared to the knowledge of God.

2nd Question:
Yes, Jesus died for our sins. We receive His forgiveness when we repent, believe and receive Him into our hearts. We are saved by grace (nothing we can do to deserve it) through faith, it's a gift, so that no one can boasts. Your question has been asked by Paul before in a rhetoric manner in the Bible, i.e. does it mean that now as Christians, being free from sin, we are free to sin? Certainly not. Salvation from sin does not mean license to sin. Think about it.

3rd Question
Jesus came down to earth to die for us - to take our place. He's a Son of God who became Son of Man to suffer and die so that man may live and be reconciled to God. The consequences of sin is death and separation from God. As God love the world so much, that He is willing to send His Son to bear the consequences of sin. Yes, you're right - it may be mind-boggling at times. But, it is an act of love.
O love that will not let us go! It touches my heart when I think of God's great love. To be fair, God does not need to do all these. Jesus need not die for the sins of the world. He chose to die. For you and for me. He could see the joy of being with us one day when He chose to bear your sins and mine on the cross.

4th Question
Jesus died and was risen on the 3rd day. He's now seated at the right hand of God and within every heart of believers through the Holy Spirit.

May God bless your seeking heart.

Ben

 

[Rafael]

Thank-you all for your replies, however i still need more clarification...

What i don't understand is if God is one in Three, i.e. Christianity is 'monotheistic', then why do CHristians believe He is in three parts, each clearly being independant of the other...the father, the son (who is noe sitting on the right with him) and the Holy spirit who gives comfort to people??Why would God send himself in the version of His son, who is God because he has power over all things, and shed his blood...sorry but i am confused. you say that jesus is God of all creation? then is the 'father not? what i mean is did the father create creation, then create his son, then pass on the responsibility of creation to his son?

In my first post I mentioned that God is not in our image, but that we are. We cannot confine God to the dimensions of man in personality or being. He is three and one at the same time - the same as a three side pyramid would be one pyraimid with three sides. Ofcourse that is only in three dimensions, while God inhabits the dimension of eternity where we cannot go in this body of flesh. If God had use for ten persons of Himself, then He would be able to do that, but three is the number that He used in creating man and giving man a decision to obey and love Him or to fall into the warned curse of sin and death.

why then create sin and make the nature of man to sin? the fact still remains that every single human being will continue to sin, because Jesus died for it does not alter this fact?

God created man as a spiritual man fitted for eternity in the begining, but had to create evil in order to be known and give man a choice to know Him. We know from the Old Testament that God created evil: Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.: In the New Testament God tell us that He suffers the existence of evil for His own use in being known and glorified: Ro 9:22 "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
If God wanted to be known and were the artist, could he paint His picture with only white if white represented His presence? No, to give definition, there has to be an outline, and the perfect opposite of white, which is all the colors, is black, being the absence of light. With black, the outline and definition of who God is becomes more plain to view and then adding the colors gives even more about character and beauty to His masterpiece. God risked creating evil and allowing sin to happen so that He could be known and have fellowship and love with His creation. With God's omiscient power, though, it was no risk in that when God has revealed Himself to all that will be born of man, He will cast evil and death into the eternal lake of fire.

...so how then can the doctrine of the whole world be based on redemption...if we still by nature sin after believing in Christ and being 'saved'?

The sin nature exists in the flesh, but Jesus has promised man new bodies fit for eternity, that will have no sin. As long as we live in this flesh, the spirit we have been given by God will war against the nature of the sinful flesh. This is the good fight that can only be won by faith. We overcome the flesh by the blood of the lamb and by our testimony of fighting the old nature and trying to win victory over it with God's grace.

Galatians 5:17 For we naturally love to do evil things that the Holy Spirit tells us not to do; and the good things we want to do when the Holy Spirit has His way with us are just the opposite of our natural desires. These two forces within us are constantly fighting each other to win control over us, and our wishes are never free from their pressures.

again sorry to keep asking the same - but Adam is human, and we are all his children and have same qualities, one being to go astray...in my mind it would make more sense to have a human example of overcoming sin - an example which everyone can relate to and try and emulate...humans can't emulate Jesus in my mind because he was 'diety' and 'diety' is free from sin, humans are not...so a human form of diety dying for our sins does not equate in my mind - any clarification plz?

Jesus was also human - God and man.
Adam has passed to us the qualities of sin and death as father of the flesh. When we are born again, we have been born into God's kingdom and now also have the nature of the last Adam, Jesus.
1Co 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Again, Jesus was Son of God and Son of man. There will never be another Messiah or person like Him for man's sake. A true Christian has the nature of God, spiritually, and it is the part that will live with God forever in a new body.

The Qur'an acknowledges that Jesus was born of a virgin mother - but it nowhere states that he was fathered from God. what the Qur'an says is,

"She [Mary] said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!" [3:47]

God can do anything he woshes, it is not difficult for him create life, He only has to say Be!

The Qur'an also does not favour Jesus over Adam, God says;

"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was." [3:59]

Adam never had a father or a mother? - how was he created? was he special too?

You say that Jesus had as a father the Holy spirit...so from this i take it that Christians do believe that God Begets...? so in my mind this negates monotheism

So God is not One?...

This is where the Bible and Koran differ greatly. According to the Bible this is where a reason for the virgin birth is given, where the nature of God was given to Jesus so that He would not have the nature of Adam and be able to fulfill the will of the Father and be the lanb of sacrifice, identifying Himself with man and suffering the sin and death due man for having fell into sin and death in the garden of Eden. The only way man could be saved from sin and death was for someone (Jesus, the lamb provided by God) to take the entire guilt and shame of man onto Himself. Indeed, this has to be where a man chooses his truth. As far as begetting from God goes, there would be no need to profane Him and imagine He would pass on His nature to Mary as a man. The Holy Spirit is not a being of corrupt flesh and blood, but of spirit. Yes, God could have created Jesus from the dust if that would have been His plan, but that is not the way the Bible tells us it happened, and that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Why does God love His creation so much? The Bible tells us that He is the very essence of love, having created it and being it. 1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


Here are a few more links that may help you answer questions and explain in more detail, if your interested.
http://www.answeringislam.org/Bailey/deity_qa.html
http://www.bible.org/docs/theology/christ/incarn2.htm
http://www.answeringislam.org/Messiah/index.html
http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/sonofman.htm

 

[vibrant]

Also when Christians refer to Jesus 'dying' what does this mean

it means He died.

...because if Jesus was God, how can God die? and why would God die for our sin if he also created judgement day and forgiveness?

i smile, because it's quite glorious when you think of it!

how many times has a father looked into the suffering eyes of a sick child and wished with all his heart wished that he could substitute himself -- take the pain on himself and spare his child. well, the Lord, our God, our Father, became man to suffer with us, and suffer for us, doing just that. when we are suffering, we often say to others: "you don't understand, you can't understand", but when we pray to God, we are praying to a deity who does... not just intellectually, but literally, He's been through it AND more -- and He has/had the scars to bear it!

i also smile because it's the perfect sacrifice! to repent, innocent blood needs to be shed in sacrifice. before Christ, Jews did it by bringing their best offering, sheeps, doves, whatever they could afford. imagine, a courtyard filled with thousands of animals waiting to be sacrificed, and then once it's over, all the blood, flesh, etc. but those sacrifices while needed were imperfect and so had to be done continuously. thankfully, we don't have to do it anymore because Jesus was the ultimate, the perfect sacrifice, the perfect lamb of God, that when sacrificed there would be no need for more. "it is finished" can be used for this context.

sacrifical love is were it's at!

somewhere in the psalms, david, i think, asks the inevitable question: what is man that you should love us so? truly, what are we to deserve this love from our God? but he created us, and he loves us.

"for no one else in history is like you ... you alone are God and i surrender to your grace"

- Jesus, lover of my soul lyrics​

 

[Sketcher]

"The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life--only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:17, 18

If God can do anything, and if He is everywhere, then certainly part of Him can become flesh and walk the Earth. Jesus, one of God's three "parts" (no better way to put it) came, submitted to , then shook it off after He dumped the sin of the world.

The cosmic value of it is impossible for anyone to fully grasp. All we know is that God loved us so much, He came down, rolled up His sleeves, and did the dirty work to redeem mankind. And you can be included with the redeemed if you believe.