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Sounds like you're not so keen on the tribal armband...Meh....
As per Acts 20.7 and 1 Cor. 15.20, it is clearly the Resurrection which is of pivotal doctrinal importance for the New Testament believer and it was clear practice in Apostolic times already for the followers of the Lord Jesus to meet together on the first day of the week, not on the Jewish Sabbath. Since New Testament believers now have the fullness of revelation and the fufilment of the types and shadows of the old economy, then to perpetuate the old economy or to mix it with the New Testament is not wise.These 2 verses have nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath, nor do they even hint at the thought of the 1st century church not keeping the sabbath
You gotta do better than that if you wanna convince anybody that the command for the Sabbath is not for all believers. As it stands, the scriptures prove that the Sabbbath is commanded to be kept. You nor anybody else has shared any scripture to prove otherwise
The 4th commandment is written in stone, which means it's permanent and for all believers for all time. You can argue with that all you want, but it's a fact.
I guess quite a few would be women, right? that had it done before you first did. (It used to be a man thing years ago, but not any more!)Well, some of them got tattoos before they knew me.
I guess quite a few would be women, right? that had it done before you first did. (It used to be a man thing years ago, but not any more!)
Put simply, a lot of ppl - a lot women - thought it was rather nice.Yes they are. I wonder how people reacted when women started getting tattoos?
Put simply, a lot of ppl - a lot women - thought it was rather nice.
(As did your older female friends, presumably.)
Well, it did use to be something that military men - especially sailors - and bikers did.Ah, that's ok. I wasn't sure if there was a bit of friction as it was considered as a masculine thing.
apparently if u copy and paste this on ten comments in the next ten minutes you will have the best day of ur life tomorrow. you will either get kissed or asked out in the next 53 minutes someone will say i love u
PS: You'll probably find that a lot of your older female friends that had it done before you probably don't regret it at all. (Even if, like you say, there might have been a bit of 'friction', but there seems to be relatively little friction now to the idea of women doing it.)Yes they are. ...
The show went really well, everyone! Thanks so much for your feedback and questions. I hope I got to everyone's questions, and I was able to bring in the general discussion also.
For those interested in hearing the show itself, check it out here.
Thanks again, and God bless!
Hello, folks! It's been awhile since I was last on this forum; that said, I am hopeful that everyone here are still as willing to lend a helpful hand as I recall.
As part of my position with UnCommon Christianity Ministries, I host a weekly podcast. Tomorrow we'll be talking about tattoos, piercings and general body modification with a couple of Christians who own and operate a tattoo shop.
I'd like to get questions from everyone- Is there something you've always wanted answered? An argument that you've never had a good response to? Give me what you got, and I'll be happy to bring them up on air. Let me know if you'd like to remain anon, or have your Screen Name used.
If you'd like to hear the answers for yourselves, let me know and I'll be happy to either PM you or post it.
Here's the promo graphic being used for the sake of reference.
God doesn't need our intervention by tattooing our bodies with some of His word. You assume way too much by dong something that is a proven PAGAN practice.My point was that if a Bible text is being communicated, whether on paper or even someone's wrist, maybe God will use it.
I made a point about what actual worldliness is. Let's see how it corresponds with Scripture.
First let's address our terminology, the word we're looking for is κοσμικός (kosmikos) meaning "of or pertaining to the kosmos". That means we should have a grasp on what κόσμος (kosmos) means.
To address the way the word κόσμος is used in the New Testament it helps to understand its nuances in Greek thought. The most literal definition of κόσμος is "arrangement" or "order". In the pre-Socratic philosophers the word was applied to the world or universe, all the "stuff" we see around us, and so some said "it is all air" and others said "it is all fire" while Pythagoras argued it was all number. In any case the Greeks spoke of the natural order, and so κόσμος could be applied to the natural order. That is the way it most closely approximates our modern use of the word "world" to describe the universe and, more specifically, our planet.
But that's not the sole meaning of the word, it took on the meaning of "world" as in the natural world, but still its most basic sense is of order, arrangement, or even government.
Our Lord Jesus in John's Gospel says to Pilate, "My kingdom is not of this κόσμος", by which He does not mean the earth, but rather the present order of how things are. That's the way κόσμος is used in much of the New Testament, not describing the creation (which is fundamentally good as per Genesis 1:31), but that there is a sense in which the present state of affairs is fallen, broken, sinful.
That's why we can read in John 3:16 that God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, and yet read in the epistle of St. James that friendship with the world is enmity with God.
In the two places that use a derivative of κοσμικός the one that is important is Titus 2:12,
"For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all, training us to renounce impiety and worldly passions, and in the present age to live lives that are self-controlled, upright, and godly, while we wait for the blessed hope and the manifestation of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." - Titus 2:11-13
Renounce impiety, worldly passions, so that in the present age (this present, fallen, faithless, sinful age) we might live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives as we await for the future coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Worldliness is that which is attached to the present system or order, the current way things are in this present age. It is to seek our treasure here rather than looking forward to what is to come. It's to be ruled by the lusts of the flesh. It's to seek our own way, to pursue our own glory and success in the present age. Etc. That's worldliness.
That's why pointing to something like tattoos and saying "that's worldly" doesn't mean anything. It's a moral judgment about something about which there is no moral judgment to be made. So that's why I addressed it the way I did.
Let me share a bit about my maternal grandmother, she grew up in a particular kind of church. That church had a lot of rules, it had rules about how men and women could dress, about how people should act, and many other things. My grandmother was forbidden from getting a perm because a woman was supposed to have a particular kind of hair, my grandmother was forbidden from attending sporting events or going to the cinema because those things were "worldly", she was forbidden from playing card games because it was "worldly", and so on and so forth. This was religious environment in which she was raised, and as it turns out none of her brothers or sisters continued to be Christians once they were old enough to leave the house. My great uncle is still an adamant atheist, and my surviving great aunt only after losing her husband a few years ago returned to a faith in Christ. My grandmother, for her part, never actively turned away from faith but she had been damaged by a religious environment that was really good at moralizing and manipulating people to behave. She did return the faith back in the mid 80's, but she spent many years having to recover from that destructive form of religion.
There is a fundamental problem with Moralism. By Moralism I mean the act of moralizing in order to create a sense of piety and holiness concerning things which are not inherently moral issues--how we dress, what foods we eat, what we drink, movies, television, hair styles. These are irrelevant things, God has not given us Christians commandments, neither commanding nor forbidding, many things. If I decide to watch The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt on Netflix that's not a moral issue, that's just watching a tv program. And the improper and rather liberal use of the word "worldly" to describe something we want to moralize about is wrong, it is biblically wrong. If one's goal is to feel self-righteous or make others feel awful by accusing them of imaginary sins, well then it's great for that; but it has absolutely nothing to do with real righteousness or holiness. Real righteousness can't even be found by being obedient to God's actual commandments, so how much less in our own man-made commandments? The only righteousness we will have this side of the Eschaton is the alien righteousness of Christ Jesus our Lord which is ours only through faith by the grace of God alone. It's His righteousness, not ours.
-CryptoLutheran
You haven't once addressed where Scripture speaks of the "ceremonial law". If you did, I missed it. Perhaps you could point me to where you addressed it in this thread.
-CryptoLutheran
God does not need you and me, either; but He does graciously use us, nevertheless, and He has promised to bless His Word.God doesn't need our intervention by tattooing our bodies with some of His word. You assume way too much by dong something that is a proven PAGAN practice.
You still are attempting to justify what God said and that is not to tattoo because it is in fact a PAGAN practice.
It's called the New Testament where Christ ended ceremonial law through HIS sacrifice known as the FINAL ATONEMENT. .
Still attempting to justify what we're instructed to do no matter if it's sin or not as long as you believe God "will use it".God does not need you and me, either; but He does graciously use us, nevertheless, and He has promised to bless His Word.
Obviously you're not interested in the fact God changed that rule n Acts 10? That NT is a tricky thing isn't it?God also said not to eat meat from animals unless they have cloven hooves and chew the cud, and that if it comes from the water if it doesn't have fins and scales it is an abomination.
So unless you are willing to uphold the entirety of the Torah, you are merely picking and choosing what you want to suit your personal preferences.
-CryptoLutheran
Again you really should get yourself into a good bible study because you continue to make erroneous claims that are proven wrong in the NT. You can read Hebrews chapters 6 thru 8 for a start.Where? Where does it say that Christ ended the "ceremonial law"?
Because you know what I read?
"For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished." - Matthew 5:18
"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have come to fullness in him, who is the head of every ruler and authority. In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. And when you were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive together with him, when he forgave us all our trespasses, erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross. He disarmed the rulers and authorities and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in it." - Colossians 2:8-15
"In speaking of 'a new covenant,' he has made the first one obsolete. And what is obsolete and growing old will soon disappear." - Hebrews 8:13
You know what the Scriptures don't say? It doesn't say that some commandments in the Law which God gave the Israelites was done away and some remains. Scripture never says that. Not once. Not ever.
What Scripture does say is that the Lord did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to bring them to their fullness, and that not one jot or tittle will be dropped from the Torah for as long as there is heaven and earth. It says that in Christ the condemnation of God's Law has been done away. It says that there is, in Christ, a new covenant and the old is no longer for us. Here's what else Scripture says:
"'Therefore I have reached the decision that we should not trouble those Gentiles who are turning to God, but we should write to them to abstain only from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from whatever has been strangled and from blood. For in every city, for generations past, Moses has had those who proclaim him, for he has been read aloud every sabbath in the synagogues.'
Then the apostles and the elders, with the consent of the whole church, decided to choose men from among their members and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leaders among the brothers, with the following letter: 'The brothers, both the apostles and the elders, to the believers of Gentile origin in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia, greetings. Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone out from us, though with no instructions from us, have said things to disturb you and have unsettled your minds, we have decided unanimously to choose representatives and send them to you, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, who have risked their lives for the sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth. For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.'" - Acts 15:19-28
"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But after they came, he drew back and kept himself separate for fear of the circumcision faction. And the other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, 'If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?'
We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is justified not by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ. And we have come to believe in Christ Jesus, so that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by doing the works of the law, because no one will be justified by the works of the law. But if, in our effort to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have been found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! But if I build up again the very things that I once tore down, then I demonstrate that I am a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing." - Galatians 2:11-21
This is what Scripture says.
You can keep trying to justify your position against the Word of God, but it is not built on the foundation of Holy Scripture but on human traditions.
-CryptoLutheran
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