Questions From Guests

[chevyontheriver]

I did not mean that baptism was against the Crucifixion. To me, baptism is done after the person believes. It is showing that the person is now a believer in the death and Resurrection of Jesus.

If you go into a Catholic Church and ask to be baptized as an adult, you will be signed up for a multi-month process where you learn and reflect, making an informed decision for Christ. And then you are baptized. They will not baptize you if you do not already believe. Children are baptized if their parents agree to form them in the faith as they grow up. Without such an agreement by the parents, their children are not baptized. But with it, even infants are baptized.

I think the proof that it itself does not save is shown with the thief on the cross.
I am not saying we should not be baptized, I just see it as an act after salvation and not the cause of salvation itself.

Sacraments are not just signals that show that one believes something. Baptism is a sign that does something. It saves us by applying the grace of Jesus Christ in washing us from our sins. That has been the Catholic understanding from the beginning, since long before Protestants ever existed. It can be seen as the normative understanding from the Church Fathers. The idea that baptism does not save us is a newcomer idea. Besides, that verse from 1 Peter says baptism now saves us.

Many people can just go get baptized and think they are going to heaven with no heart belief in Jesus's atonement on the cross. For me, the cross is where it takes place.

Baptism is not magic, as if you are automatically saved by being baptized. Was Judas baptized? We can presume so. Is he saved? Baptism begins salvation in the person of the believer who is baptized. And yet that person has to persevere. Baptism ALONE does not save. Baptism and a lifelong denial of Jesus Christ is a ticket to hell. Baptism is the door to salvation. It is the normal way. God can make exceptions, which is just fine. But we follow what we have been given, that in making disciples the Church is to baptize, that being born again is through baptism, that baptism saves us, all Biblical concepts.

edit:
Very good article.. it explained some things, however , in going over the verses he gave I remain in the conviction that 1st. You repent and believe 2nd You show that you have done so by baptism.. immediately if possible.
I liked what he said about baptisms of blood and desire.

Those who wanted baptism but could not do so because they were martyred first are simply called martyrs, just like any other Christians who were killed because of the faith. An those in the catechumenate who died before baptism were allowed to be buried in Christian cemeteries right along with the other baptized believers. We have accepted baptism in blood and baptism by desire for well over a thousand years. But whenever we have the chance we do baptism with water. And treat it as the event that washes away sins in the new believer.

 

[Mary7]

My thoughts are and yes I know I sound like my own pope lol but.. if one is truly born again/saved, then the fruit (works) will follow. I also believe that my Father will not allow me (who is saved) to wander off without chastening and bringing me back in line the same as a good earthly father would do. That gives me peace and a rest that I do not have to fear 'losing my salvation'. I trust Him to keep me in His hand and no one shall pluck me out. I am interested in the RCC but I am concerned about this fear of losing salvation if you don't keep up the 'works'. Sure we have free will but a good Father keeps the child in line and if the Spirit of God lives in that person they can trust in that.

If someone is truly saved their life will change. Things will become as new.

I have been reading SO much and I am seeing that if you don't go to mass or confession you will lose your salvation. That is not the peace that passeth all understanding.

BTW ignore the 'protestant' tag on my profile. I have requested that be removed. I am considering RCC/orthodox and Episcopal (only because there is no anglican here) and possibly lutheran. None of the others and I have been in many of them in my lifetime.. mostly So. Baptist and Methodist (raised in Episcopal)

 

[chevyontheriver]

My thoughts are and yes I know I sound like my own pope lol but.. if one is truly born again/saved, then the fruit (works) will follow. I also believe that my Father will not allow me (who is saved) to wander off without chastening and bringing me back in line the same as a good earthly father would do. That gives me peace and a rest that I do not have to fear 'losing my salvation'. I trust Him to keep me in His hand and no one shall pluck me out. I am interested in the RCC but I am concerned about this fear of losing salvation if you don't keep up the 'works'. Sure we have free will but a good Father keeps the child in line and if the Spirit of God lives in that person they can trust in that.

We have free will. And that does include turning our noses up at Jesus and His Father if we decide to do that. God will not save us against our will.

The 'once saved, always saved' idea has problems. One is that it is a new teaching, never existing in the Church before Calvin invented it. Another is that there is enough Bible in conflict with the idea that it's shaky at best. We can agree that God loves us and wants us to persevere in the faith, that God gently calls us back again and again. Where we would differ is that I would say God does not force me against my will to be saved.

If someone is truly saved their life will change. Things will become as new.

Of course. We are a new creation. But we still do have freedom, and that freedom is the freedom to love God and our neighbor. But the flip side is that we always have the freedom to spurn God.

I have been reading SO much and I am seeing that if you don't go to mass or confession you will lose your salvation. That is not the peace that passeth all understanding.

There are sins that cause spiritual death. It was Jesus himself who said "whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 10:33). One who knowingly and willingly does something gravely wrong will cut herself or himself off from Christ. It's a real thing. Happens every day. And the concept of mortal sin is entirely Biblical, found explicitly at 1 John 5:16-17 where it says 'there is a sin that leads to death'.

If you decide to blow off going to mass, and you decide you have nothing to confess, you may very well be on the path to losing your salvation. I'm not talking about being sick and having to stay home from mass, or travelling in the deep south where there are no Catholic churches, but a deliberate move to cut yourself off from God by refusing to go to church so you can read the paper and have a nice brunch and get ready for the football game. Continuing on along that path is spiritual death. It is a deliberate move to die spiritually. It isn't accidental. A Catholic lives in the hope of salvation. Not the assurance of once saved always saved.

As a side note I have seen so many discussions in these fora about Protestants who think they have committed the unforgivable sin. People who thought they were 'once saved, always saved' but now don't think so. It's a lot of spiritual anguish. Anguish of the sort I don't have as a Catholic who lives his faith in the normal way. I wonder too about those who think they are 'once saved, always saved' and really are only fooling themselves. "Lord, Lord" they will say, but Jesus will say He never knew them.

BTW ignore the 'protestant' tag on my profile. I have requested that be removed. I am considering RCC/orthodox and Episcopal (only because there is no anglican here) and possibly lutheran. None of the others and I have been in many of them in my lifetime.. mostly So. Baptist and Methodist (raised in Episcopal)

I think you have to ask the staff to get that changed. They can fix it.

You mention you were raised Episcopalian. If I might suggest you check out the Anglican Ordinariate. They are former Anglicans and Episcopalians who have entered the Catholic Church together as a group, sometimes whole parishes. They follow a slightly modified old Anglican prayerbook for liturgy, are rather high church, and usually have a good musical tradition. They won't go along with the liberalizations of the contemporary Episcopalians. See: Personal Ordinariate of the Chair of St. Peter

 

[Mary7]

I am in the 'deep south' and there is no Anglican church of any kind in my half of the state
I would go if there were one.
Even the only Catholic church in this county is closer to the next town

I checked your link.. none at all in my state.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am in the 'deep south' and there is no Anglican church of any kind in my half of the state
I would go if there were one.
Even the only Catholic church in this county is closer to the next town

I checked your link.. none at all in my state.

When I was younger and travelling with my parents somewhere in Georgia I remember a priest pulling up to a spot in a parking lot with a camper on the back of a pickup. Things kind of folded out and he pulled out the chairs and we had mass in the parking lot. Funniest thing. But even up here in the great north tundra my grandfather tells the story of a priest coming in on the train and getting run right out of town by the Protestants who would not allow him to stay.

In a situation where there just isn't a suitable church of course God understands that. I worked overseas for a few years and only occasionally in the dry season would a priest be able to come through. It was almost exclusively a Muslim area. You do what you can and don't worry about the rest.

 

[Mary7]

Next question:
confession.
I confess my sins daily. Do catholics not do this but go to the priest? What if they died before getting there?
They do both? Then confessing your sins to your heavenly Father does not count/work?

 

[Mary7]

5 days but no reply. I would like to add that I am seriously considering the RCC but there are a few roadblocks in the way. The confession is not really a major one but I am a person that must understand and also believe that something is right or wrong.
My major block is this. While I believe that Mary is blessed above all women and that Protestants don't give her enough credit.. I totally balk at the idea that she plays a part in our salvation.
Peter, John and the others knew her personally yet not once did they mention her in the Scriptures as playing a part in our salvation. I saw a Catholic site yesterday with Father Mike (love him) that said "salvation thru Mary to Jesus' or something like that.

You folks are the only Catholics I 'know' or have had any contact with other than many MANY web sites. I even emailed the local priest weeks ago but got no reply.

 

[chevyontheriver]

5 days but no reply. I would like to add that I am seriously considering the RCC but there are a few roadblocks in the way. The confession is not really a major one but I am a person that must understand and also believe that something is right or wrong.
My major block is this. While I believe that Mary is blessed above all women and that Protestants don't give her enough credit.. I totally balk at the idea that she plays a part in our salvation.
Peter, John and the others knew her personally yet not once did they mention her in the Scriptures as playing a part in our salvation. I saw a Catholic site yesterday with Father Mike (love him) that said "salvation thru Mary to Jesus' or something like that.

You folks are the only Catholics I 'know' or have had any contact with other than many MANY web sites. I even emailed the local priest weeks ago but got no reply.

Sorry. I somehow missed your last question.

In Scripture we are told to confess our sins to one another. So the confession of sins isn't a totally private thing between 'Jesus and me' but a communal thing. That's found in James 5:16. The book of James, most of it anyway, can be looked at as an examination of conscience prior to confession. This communal confession used to be done in front of the whole assembly. Now it is simplified to just confessing to a representative of the assembly, a priest. This is actually in keeping with the method in Leviticus 5: 5-6, except that the sacrificial animal is of course replaced by the once and for all sacrifice of Jesus.

Can you confess directly to God the Father? Yes, for some things, for many things. That is even well established Catholic doctrine that one can, and one can say an act of contrition prayer at any time. For serious sin it is exceptionally strongly recommended that one confess the sin to a priest. The idea of the Reformation and of Protestants to do away with this sacrament is not friendly to the salvation of souls. They would do well to re-adopt what they cut out in or after the Reformation.

As to the newest question about Mary, I do not have time now. I leave that to someone else, or maybe I can get back to it later. If you would like any clarification on what I wrote, just ask and I will try to get back to you.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Just popped in to say hi!

 

[Anhelyna]

Hi Mark - good to see you over here