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Yes.Cutting through all of the back and forth, does this statement express your position?
AV1611VET: Humans are not apes!
I took hailtofire's mention of the appendix as vestigial to mean it was useless: vestigial = useless. This is a not so unusual a belief.
In THIS paper, "The Useless Vestigial: the Human Appendix," the author explains why he believed it had no use."Ernst Mayr [The preeminent zoologist of our time] confirmed my doctor's opinion that the human appendix is only an impediment on the species. In What Evolution Is, Mayr claims thatPerhaps I was wrong in assuming this is what hailtofire thought, (vestigial = useless), but as the quoted piece illustrates, it's not a groundless assumption.
'Every shift into a new adaptive zone leaves a residue of no longer needed morphological features that then become an impediment. One only needs to think of the many weaknesses in humans that are remnants of our quadrupedal and more vegetarian past, for instance... the caecal appendix.'"
I hope he's off to the side in that video and not in the center of the stage or pulpit.But I think our own resident AronRa answered this question very nicely.
Sorta.So I guess the examples of animals that not only kills but EAT their own eggs and therefore unhatched offspring just got completely glossed over?
Metherion
Sorta.
The point I was making is that these are not examples of 'urges' to procreate and protect our young.
(and yes, I know this isn't the regular thought process for women considering abortion, I'm just pointing out how abortion may, in fact, be more beneficial to procreating and protecting one's children than not getting that abortion.)
Reps to you for unlocking the mystery. In order to get AV to stop trolling you just need to direct a pro abortion comment at him!!!(and yes, I know this isn't the regular thought process for women considering abortion, I'm just pointing out how abortion may, in fact, be more beneficial to procreating and protecting one's children than not getting that abortion.)
-- I'm outta this thread.
That's what the author now understands to be the case; however, my point is that people do believe that vestigial=useless, and that this view was expressed in the paper where the author did (past tense) believe as much because . . .The quoted piece doesn't say that vestigial=useless. If that had been the case, he wouldn't have used a headline saying "The Useless Vestigial", which would have been embarrassingly redundant. Vestigial structures can be useless and they can be useful, as evolution has a tendency to come up with new uses of features lying around doing nothing.
Peter
Thanks for posting that, it's very interesting.AV, by the most stringent definition of abortion ( one animal causing the fetus to fail in an animal of the same species while still inside the mother's womb ), animals do this:
Animal Communication: Pheromones
These "urges to procreate" are so 20th century. Early 20th century, I'd say.Sorta.
The point I was making is that these are not examples of 'urges' to procreate and protect our young.
That's what the author now understands to be the case; however, my point is that people do believe that vestigial=useless, and that this view was expressed in the paper where the author did (past tense) believe as much because . . .
"Ernst Mayr confirmed my doctor's opinion that the human appendix is only an impediment on the species."
Thanks for posting that, it's very interesting.
Hmm, would that be manipulation by the male, or the mother thinking "if I have these babies he'll kill them anyway, so what's the point?"
Either way, sexual conflict is fascinating.
Considering the thrust of the issue, I saw the statement as embodying the notion. That you don't is, of course, your particular reading.I think you should have quoted this instead: "...vestigial structure. That is, "a deconstructed, nonfunctional characteristic that has been fully functional in a species' ancestor."(Mayr, 291)", since that's the only part of the article where it seems that the term vestigial is defined as being useless.
Am I the only one who laughed out loud at the monkeys/baby question?
Oh really?I've changed a lot of peoples minds on this, so I found it necessary.
Gliding.1 - What would be the purpose of a half wing?
You've answered your question.2 - What evidence do you have for the TRex being a meat eater? Don't say because of it's teeth. This is like finding the bones of a tall man and assuming he was a basketball player!
We eat, we sleep, we have an urge to procreate, we protect our young. This is a kind of a misleading question. You don't sneer at an lion for not behaving like an elephant.3 - If humans are animals, why don't we act like it?
The appendix has lost it's original function, digesting leaves that primitive humans ate.4 - If the appendix is 'vestigial', why is it part of the digestive system?
I could post a link, but people have already done that.5 - If we share a common ancestor with apes, how do they have two more chromosomes than we do. YES WE DO! Look it up yourselves. I've never gotten ANY explanation for this.
What "evolutionist" claims this?. Wanna see a transitional fossil? Look in the mirror.6 - ALL dead organisms leave behind dead bodies. So why do evolutionist claim that we only have like 100 transitional forms?
What?7 - Why don't Monkey's have babies today
For the same reason people claim to see ghosts, spirits and demons.8 - Why have so many humans claimed to have seen dinosaurs in the congo and Lockness?
Bzzt! Wrong, wrong, wrong.Evolution requires faith.
Pfft. Us "evolutionists" are so used to these questions, we could answer them in our dreams.I can't wait to see some of the struggling responses to this.
This character had 3 posts when he posted this nonsense and still has 3 posts. Definitely a post and run.I didn't want my first thread to be like this, but I've seen some others like it so I thought I would start one.
I've changed a lot of peoples minds on this, so I found it necessary.
1 - What would be the purpose of a half wing?
2 - What evidence do you have for the TRex being a meat eater? Don't say because of it's teeth. This is like finding the bones of a tall man and assuming he was a basketball player!
3 - If humans are animals, why don't we act like it?
4 - If the appendix is 'vestigial', why is it part of the digestive system?
5 - If we share a common ancestor with apes, how do they have two more chromosomes than we do. YES WE DO! Look it up yourselves. I've never gotten ANY explanation for this.
6 - ALL dead organisms leave behind dead bodies. So why do evolutionist claim that we only have like 100 transitional forms?
7 - Why don't Monkey's have babies today?
8 - Why have so many humans claimed to have seen dinosaurs in the congo and Lockness?
Evolution requires faith.
I can't wait to see some of the struggling responses to this.
Forgive me but these questions are pathetic.I didn't want my first thread to be like this, but I've seen some others like it so I thought I would start one.
I've changed a lot of peoples minds on this, so I found it necessary.
1 - What would be the purpose of a half wing?
2 - What evidence do you have for the TRex being a meat eater? Don't say because of it's teeth. This is like finding the bones of a tall man and assuming he was a basketball player!
3 - If humans are animals, why don't we act like it?
4 - If the appendix is 'vestigial', why is it part of the digestive system?
5 - If we share a common ancestor with apes, how do they have two more chromosomes than we do. YES WE DO! Look it up yourselves. I've never gotten ANY explanation for this.
6 - ALL dead organisms leave behind dead bodies. So why do evolutionist claim that we only have like 100 transitional forms?
7 - Why don't Monkey's have babies today?
8 - Why have so many humans claimed to have seen dinosaurs in the congo and Lockness?
Evolution requires faith.
I can't wait to see some of the struggling responses to this.
Then quit complaining and give pathetic answers.Forgive me but these questions are pathetic.
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