Questions for Certain Pro-Choicers

[Marek]

I understand those who feel that abortion should be morally acceptable in all cases and those who feel that it should be unacceptable in all cases, but it is the people that lie somewhere in between that confuse me. I have a few questions for them so that I can further understand their views.

For those that feel abortion should be legal, but would never get one in the case that they got pregnant even if they had to put the child up for adoption:
What are your reasons for not getting an abortion?
Why aren't these reasons ground for making abortion illegal?

Those who feel abortion should only be legal before a certain point in the pregnancy, but illegal afterwards (example: legal in 1st trimester, illegal in 2nd and 3rd trimester):
What are your reasons for this division?
Why should a 6 month old fetus have more value than a 2 month old fetus? (and don't just say because a 6 month old fetus has brainwaves or a human form, etc. Please explain why these features make the life of the fetus more valuable)

 

[The Seeker]

Personally, I think that abortion should be freely available, but I don't think that it is always morally right to abort. For example, I would not personally approve of a woman choosing to abort a pregnancy at 8 month because she changed her mind (a cesarian would make more sense), however, I think that this is very unlikely, since by and large most women only have an abortion for very good reasons, so it is best to make abortion freely available, to make things easier on women who are forced by circumstance to make this very difficult choice. I do, however, think that a late term abortion is a very serious procedure and should be carefully discussed between a woman and her doctor before it is carried out.

Those who feel abortion should only be legal before a certain point in the pregnancy, but illegal afterwards (example: legal in 1st trimester, illegal in 2nd and 3rd trimester):
What are your reasons for this division?
Why should a 6 month old fetus have more value than a 2 month old fetus? (and don't just say because a 6 month old fetus has brainwaves or a human form, etc. Please explain why these features make the life of the fetus more valuable)

Firstly, a 2 month old fetus is not a viable living creature, not is is sentient or capable of feeling pain. IIRC, at around 24 weeks, the brain starts to properly develop, IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb).

 

[sanaa]

i am someone who will probably never get an abortion myself but the reason i am pro choice is that i dont feel its right to impose my views on other women , i have no idea what their lives are like and why they are choosing abortion . yes am against abortion as a form of birth control and i would love the abortion rates to come down so i would probably like to work for that in the future . also people must understand that the majority does not see the featus as a human being so the murder arguement is not going to work

 

[Marek]

Firstly, a 2 month old fetus is not a viable living creature, not is is sentient or capable of feeling pain. IIRC, at around 24 weeks, the brain starts to properly develop, IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb).

Yes, I realize all this, but you didn't answer my question. Why is the value of life lower for an earlier stage fetus? What is it about these traits that make its life more or less valuable? A human in a coma very well might exhibit all of these traits, yet their life is still of value. What is the difference?

 

[Marek]

i am someone who will probably never get an abortion myself but the reason i am pro choice is that i dont feel its right to impose my views on other women , i have no idea what their lives are like and why they are choosing abortion . yes am against abortion as a form of birth control and i would love the abortion rates to come down so i would probably like to work for that in the future . also people must understand that the majority does not see the featus as a human being so the murder arguement is not going to work

Okay, but you didn't answer my question. Why wouldn't you get an abortion?

 

[Spinrad]

I wouldn't get an abortion because I am male.

 

[The Seeker]

Yes, I realize all this, but you didn't answer my question. Why is the value of life lower for an earlier stage fetus? What is it about these traits that make its life more or less valuable?

IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb)

A human in a coma very well might exhibit all of these traits, yet their life is still of value.

I disagree, once you're brain dead, that's it anyway, no point causing the departed's family further grief and wasting resources by keeping what is essentially an empty shell alive.

 

[butterfoot]

Personally, I think that abortion should be freely available, but I don't think that it is always morally right to abort. For example, I would not personally approve of a woman choosing to abort a pregnancy at 8 month because she changed her mind (a cesarian would make more sense), however, I think that this is very unlikely, since by and large most women only have an abortion for very good reasons, so it is best to make abortion freely available, to make things easier on women who are forced by circumstance to make this very difficult choice. I do, however, think that a late term abortion is a very serious procedure and should be carefully discussed between a woman and her doctor before it is carried out.


Firstly, a 2 month old fetus is not a viable living creature, not is is sentient or capable of feeling pain. IIRC, at around 24 weeks, the brain starts to properly develop, IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb).

You say that a 2 month old does not feel pain. How do you know this and do you have proof?

-cw

 

[Marek]

IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb)

Okay - You are describing traits of a young fetus. Why do these traits lessen the value of life of the fetus?

I disagree, once you're brain dead, that's it anyway, no point causing the departed's family further grief and wasting resources by keeping what is essentially an empty shell alive.

A person in a coma is not necessarily brain dead. Assuming that they will recover, they are temporarily unable to feel pain, think, etc. A fetus is temporarily unable to feel pain, think, etc. I'm just curious as to what the difference is and why we are able to kill one but not the other.

 

[sanaa]

Okay, but you didn't answer my question. Why wouldn't you get an abortion?

because it goes against my beliefs and hopefully i wont get myself in a situation where id need one

 

[Marek]

because it goes against my beliefs and hopefully i wont get myself in a situation where id need one

Sorry to ask, but what are your beliefs? I'm merely curious. Are your beliefs in line with the Hindu teachings? I'm unfamiliar with these. Thanks.

 

[Rochir]

There are circumstances which do justify an abortion - rape, incest, a child with severe genetic defects or when the mother's health is in serious danger. I also would count social reason as valid for an abortion. Sometimes even when using contraceptives and/or condomes, pregnancies happen, and in such cases can cause the financial ruin of a woman. Then, abortion should be a choice.

I myself would limit abortions in only one aspect - the time when they can be justifiably be done. Up to 3 months after conception is my personal limit. Everything beyond that time frame become harder for me to accept, especially if social reasons are brought forth.

However, in the end it should be a woman's choice! No one elses!

 

[sanaa]

Sorry to ask, but what are your beliefs? I'm merely curious. Are your beliefs in line with the Hindu teachings? I'm unfamiliar with these. Thanks.

the hindu belief is that life begins at conception , my personal belief is that the rights of the mother supercede the rights of the unborn child i dont know if thats in line with the hindu beliefs . also the hindu belief is that the unborn child will be reincarnated anyway

 

[ptgd1st]

Personally, I think that abortion should be freely available, but I don't think that it is always morally right to abort. For example, I would not personally approve of a woman choosing to abort a pregnancy at 8 month because she changed her mind (a cesarian would make more sense), however, I think that this is very unlikely, since by and large most women only have an abortion for very good reasons, so it is best to make abortion freely available, to make things easier on women who are forced by circumstance to make this very difficult choice. I do, however, think that a late term abortion is a very serious procedure and should be carefully discussed between a woman and her doctor before it is carried out.


Firstly, a 2 month old fetus is not a viable living creature, not is is sentient or capable of feeling pain. IIRC, at around 24 weeks, the brain starts to properly develop, IMO before that point the fetus is not a person in the true sense of the word (no capacity for thought or feeling, no ability to survive outside of the womb).

I like how you say that most women only choose abortion for "good reasons." I would actually like to see a statistic showing abortion reasons. It seems to me most women who have abortions have them because they do not want a baby. That is not a good enough reason for me. If you did not want a baby you should not have had sex. What do you define as a good reason? I disagree with abortion 100% but if i was playing devils advocate, i would say only in life threatening cases would an abortion be justified. Can you show me statistically that most women have abortions with good reasons?

 

[Seeking...]

Well, I guess I am one of those certain people.
First off, I believe a woman's right to exhibilt control over her own body is tantamount. Second, I consider a fetus to be a part of a woman's body until the child is viable. A non-viable fetus is just a part of the woman and has no rights at all. A viable fetus has a basic right to not be actively killed. The difference is that 1 cannot live without its host (which it has no rights to) and the other can live without the host. I believe that abortions for covenience are likely immoral, but I would not criminalize them. I consider it to be immoral in the same way that self-mutilation is - by shirking reality a person is harming themselves unneccesarily. I fully support a woman's choice to abort in any case, though it is most understandable in the case of rape, incest, and/or medical neccesity. I would not consider having an abortion unless it were medically necessary or the result of a non-consensual act. It is a medical procedure that ends a life and can have lasting complications for the woman. It is something I consider to be occaisionally necessary - but a sad thing just the same.

 

[Chrysalis Kat]

For those that feel abortion should be legal, but would never get one in the case that they got pregnant even if they had to put the child up for adoption:
What are your reasons for not getting an abortion?
Why aren't these reasons ground for making abortion illegal?)

That's an easy one.

There are people that do not want the goverment making these types of personal choices for it's citizens. There are people that do not want the goverment to have this type of control over women and their bodies.
There are many things that are not 'right' for me to do but this doesn't lead to legislate the actions of others. There are people that believe that any abortion is immoral yet would not support goverment involvement in this matter.

 

[hernyaccent]

I personally wouldn't have an abortion for the fact that I would want my child to live and be willing to take on the responsiblity of another human being. This is not grounds me to be pro-life because I realize not everyone thinks nor feels the same way I do about the situation. What right is it of mine to impose my views on the situation on ALL women & men?

 

[JustJack!]

A person in a coma is not necessarily brain dead. Assuming that they will recover, they are temporarily unable to feel pain, think, etc. A fetus is temporarily unable to feel pain, think, etc. I'm just curious as to what the difference is and why we are able to kill one but not the other.

If a coma patient had a chance to recover and gain what they had lost, then that chance should be exploited. A fetus can not miss what it never had.

Be honest, if a man was holding a gun to the head of a coma patient, and one to the head of a healthy, conscience man, and told you to choose which one would live, who would you pick? Honestly?

 

[Ninja Turtles]

You say that a 2 month old does not feel pain. How do you know this and do you have proof?

-cw

But because there's a particular system that defines response to pain. Action potentials do not denote thoughts or pain.

 

[Phred]

A woman is under no obligation to give blood, even if her refusal to do so results in the death of another person.

A woman is under no obligation to give a kidney, or other parts of herself, even if it means the death of another person.

Thus, a woman in under no obligation to allow a pregnancy to continue in her body if she doesn't wish to do so. That's the only "good reason" a person needs.

Otherwise, what we're talking about here is enforced maternity.

.
​