• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Questions for adherents of the Bible alone.

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sort by date Sort by votes

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
eleos1954 said:
Amen and Amen

God Bless
Click to expand...

Bless you my friend! When we as sinners forsake the written Word of God for the words of other sinners, we have entered into the realm of the "Twilight Zone" where the thoughts and imaginations of other sinners are more important that is God.
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
#1. Alter Call.
Click to expand...

Well...... let's see Maj1. It may take me a couple of posts, but I'll show why these practices are unbiblical and nothing more that man-made traditions (lower case t) within Protestant/non-denominational churches and sects.


First off, nowhere in these passages do I explicitly see reference to the "Altar Call." Secondly, would you not agree your interpretation of these passages are nothing more than your personal, fallible, non-authoritative opinions which are subject to error? Which we could dare say.....the word of Major1?


And lastly, if it is your belief that the "Altar Call" is indeed biblical, why is it not all Christian, or even Evangelical churches, use altar calls? For example, Google "Why We Don't Use The Altar Call - Victory Baptist Church." I'll give you an excerpts:

"Why We Don't Use The Altar Call --- By Laurence A. Justice.


So firmly entrenched has the altar call become in our modern churches that I have had people ask me on several occasions, How can people be saved if you don’t give an invitation? Preachers who do not give altar calls are often criticized as not being evangelistic.

We do not have an altar call in the services of our church! We do not extend an invitation at the close of our services for people to make some kind of physical demonstration that they are trusting Christ. What I shall do in this sermon is explain just why we don’t! First of all we do not do it

Because God's Word Does Not Teach the Altar Call.

It is vitally important in this practice as in all others that we look closely at the scriptures to find what they teach about this practice. As we do we find that the invitation is never commanded in God’s word. Search the scriptures as you will, there is no command in any scripture for us to use this method. Not only this, there is no precedent in scripture for using the altar call. The Lord Jesus never in his earthly ministry gave an invitation. The apostles of our Lord never in all their ministries used the altar call.

In Acts 2:36-37 we are told that at Pentecost 3,000 people were saved but no altar call was used. The saving of those 3,000 was the work of the Holy Spirit of God and not of clever emotional appeals to come to the front of the meeting place. Whatever reasons one may give for using the altar call, it is a fact that it cannot be supported from the word of God.

As we have already pointed out, some people believe and teach that if one does not give an invitation in connection with his sermon he is not evangelistic. But we cannot be more evangelistic than the New Testament and the altar call or invitation system is not to be found in the pages of the New Testament. Actually having an altar call is a departure from scriptural requirements and practice."

For you and other who'd like to read the whole article, go to www.victorybaptist.us/show.wc?msgaltarcall


Now my question to you Maj1 is, what would be your argument in opposition to Pastor Justice's belief against the Altar Call being he too is a adhereant to The Bible Alone? If both you and he are being guided by the Holy Spirit in your beleifs for and against the practice of the Altar Call, which of you two is correct, and who is in error? One of you has to be in error for the Holy Spirit cannot teach error, correct? So which is it, you or he?


Have a Blessed day my friend




I will address the "sinners prayer" in my next post to you.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Make sure you understand me. I do not care what is thought of me or what I say.

I do not care what Mr. Justice says.

I care only what the Scriptures say and that is posted in ………

#1. Alter Call.
Matthew 4:19……….
"And Jesus said to them, Follow Me and I will make you fishers of men, and immediately they left their nets an followed Him".

Matthew 10:32...….
"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven."

Those words speak to me personally and answer YOUR question on what and When was an Alter Call found in the Scriptures. If you do not want to accept them...…….
I really do not care.

An emphasis on "going public" with one's decision when it is made, telling all people about the decision to become a Christian has always been the accepted way of coming to Christ.

While there is certainly nothing wrong with "coming forward" to publicly tell people about your commitment to Jesus Christ, it is also not a requirement. Instead, a person comes to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9). Responding to an altar call can be used to make this decision or share it with others, but does not save a person any more than being baptized does.

You asked WHERE it was in the Scriptures and I showed you. You reject those Scriptures and that is certainly your choice to do so.
 
Reactions: Phil 1:21
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
You said...………
"Baptism is the initial means by which we receive the grace of God which saves – confession, or the Sacrament of Reconciliation, is where we receive the grace we’ve lost through sin after baptism".
Click to expand...

First off my dear friend, I didn't say that. If you would have read my post in it's entirety you would have seen I was quoting Catholic Apologist Matt Nelson in which I agree with.

Secondly, and once again, if you are going to use what I post as part of your argument, please post the quote in it's entirety, and not cherry pick. By not do so, you are taking the quote out of context, and could be construed as being deceitful., and we don't want that now do we?

That is Catholic dogma and NOT Bible truth.
Click to expand...

Back on my post #45 Maj1, I asked you......

"p.s. you do know the differences between Catholic Doctrine, Discipline and Dogma, right?

Or the difference between the Sacraments and Sacramentals? If so, please give your definition."

In which you unsurprisedly failed to address. Here's a second chance.


[Ephesians 2:8-9.clearly reject that comment.
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."[/quote]

Except for a couple of big problems Maj1. The problems being, 1. Is the fact that the word "alone" is absent from this passage. Oops! However, the only passage where the word "alone" does appear is in James 2:24. Double Oops...Oops!!

"See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

2. you left out verse ten.

"Eph. 2:10. For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them."

Triple Oops,Oops,Oops!

Intrestling enough, this past Sunday, James 2:14-26 was the second reading at Mass, imagine that! I highly suggest you take a look at these passages my friend. Though they all are of the most importance, pay special attention to 14,17,18,22, and 26.


Say's who?


Really Maj1, gotquestions.com as your source? Good luck with that!

Have a Blessed Day my friend
 
Reactions: thecolorsblend
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private

First off my dear friend, this is simply not true, for I said no such thing in post #73, that was your post.

Secondly, the post you quoted from was post #62, and I was speaking of Apostolic Succession. But that's okay friend, I've made plenty of silly mistakes like this myself.

That is not about disunity at all.
Click to expand...

It's not? Then why do so many other believers of the Bible Alone disagree with you about the Rapture (as the Baptist Pastor I quoted) as well as many other beliefs?

It was about believing something which is not found expressly printed in the Scriptures so as to allow you as a Catholic to continue to worship the Rosary, Purgatory, and many other NON Biblical practices of the Catholic church.
Click to expand...

More myths and fallacies. Did you get this information from your favorite anti-Catholic web-site gotquestions.com or from a Jack Chick pamphlet? Please show me where in the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it say's we are to worship the Rosary, Purgatory, and anything else other than God? You really need forget these Catholic bashing sites my friend if you really seek the truth on what the Catholic Church teaches. Like you, before my conversion to the Catholic Church believed and spread these untruths. That is until the Holy Spirit led me to the truths of the Catholic Church, and her teachings. Thanks be to God!

The thinking IMO from your post was YOU protestants accept the Rapture and it is not in the Bible hence you are arguing against Sola Scripture.
Click to expand...

As I have proven, not 'all' Protestants accept the Rapture as biblical.

BUT as I said, you as a Catholic practice the Rosary and believe in the Trinity so what is your point??
Click to expand...

FYI, many non-Catholics pray, (not practice) the Rosary and believe in the Trinity. So what's your point?

CBS is YOUR source of information. A worldly news organization???
Click to expand...

Once again my friend, that's not what I said. What I did say to Albion on post #65 was. (read it carefully)

"Here is an article from the Protestant news scource CBNNEWS.COM that might be of an interest:

Large Number of Pastors Don't Believe in the Rapture (04-27-2016)"

Then I proceded to show the article. Now can you see your error Maj1? If not, get back to me and I will point it out to you. Man..... it seems as if I've been correcting you a lot here lately. But thats okay, I'm happy to help out a friend!

And may I say that the number of people who are so called Christians are probably higher than 50% who do not believe that Jesus is the Christ.
Click to expand...

And you get this info from who???

I would say that 75% of all RCC members do not accept the salvation of God through faith only so Once again what is the point of your comment.
Click to expand...

Let me guess, you got this statistic from gotquestions.com? If not, from who?

You said...…..asked actually...…………"Please show where the Bible says it is all we need as a sole rule of faith. Book, Chapter, and verse?"
Click to expand...

Well?

My 1st thought is WHY? You do not accept the Bible as the written Word of God, why do you then ask me to post something that you will not receive????
Click to expand...

Your kidding right? Why would I not accept the Bible as the written Word of God when it was the Catholic Church that compiled the Word of God that is the Bible! And you have yet to show where in scripture does it say that it must first be written in scripture before it is to be believed.

2 Timothy 3:16 ..........."the entire Bible is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Click to expand...

Sorry.... Maj1, St. Paul is not here, nor anywhere else, teaching the notion that the “bible alone” is the sole rule of faith, and the only authority for the believer.


Really? God’s declaration in Scripture is that it and it alone, is this final authority in all matters of faith and morals? I fail to see where in 2Pet 1:20-21......."

20 Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,21,for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."

Or Jn.10;35 where it say's....."If it calls them gods to whom the word of God came, and scripture cannot be set aside,"

So please my friend where in these two passages (or 2Tim.3:16) does it explicitly say's God’s declaration in Scripture is that it and it alone, is this final authority in all matters of faith and morals.

Well my friend, this post is getting a bit lengthy, so I will continue it on where you quoted Rev. 22:18-19 on a future post.

Have a Blessed evening
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private

I'll let Catholic Apologist Joe McClane explain 2Tim.3: 16-17 and Sola Scriptura:

"2 Timothy 3:10–17 (RSVCE) 10 Now you have observed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11 my persecutions, my sufferings, what befell me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra, what persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12 Indeed all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13 while evil men and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceivers and deceived. 14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:1–2 (RSVCE) 1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word, be urgent in season and out of season, convince, rebuke, and exhort, be unfailing in patience and in teaching.

To start, the very notion that the “bible” was the only authority for the Christian believer would be absolutely foreign to St. Paul. For instance, do we really think that St. Paul would have considered his own writings as “sacred scripture?” No, of course not. Look at verse 15; notice that St. Paul reminds Timothy that he has known the “sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation” from his childhood. Question, was the New Testament written when Timothy was a child? Maybe some portions, like say the Gospel of Mark for instance, but, certainly NOT any of St. Paul’s writings. So, clearly, St. Paul is not here referring to any of his own letters, which make up the majority of the New Testament, furthermore, he’s not likely even referring to anything other than the Old Testament in this exhortation to the young Bishop.

This of course should then raise a valid question in our minds … if St. Paul is only referring to the Old Testament, or even to a portion of the New Testament, and he was teaching the idea of “Sola Scriptura”, how is it that any new books were added at some later date to the canon of scripture? After all, If the “sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation” were “sufficient”, or even “perfect”, as the non-Catholic seems to think verses 16 & 17 suggest they are, and therefore doesn’t need anything else to build up the “man of God”, then how dare anyone add to it at any point in the future (or even take away from it like Martin Luther did)? Its easy to see how this line of reasoning fails the common sense test, therefore the verse can not be teaching something that would have been a strange concept to St. Paul. Clearly, the canon of the New Testament was still under construction and would be debated for four hundred years before the North African councils will establish the list of the books of the New Testament canon, and not until the Council of Trent, in the 1540’s, before the Canon of scripture would be dogmatically defined (a response to Martin Luther removing books that had been considered inspired by God from the earliest days of the Church).

Secondly, simply look at the context of this letter and you will see that St. Paul, like a good father, is preparing his son Timothy to carry on after he is gone. St. Paul was under arrest in Rome and nearing his final day on earth, (Chapter 4:6 – “For I am already on the point of being sacrificed; the time of my departure has come”), and was exhorting Timothy to be the “man of God”, to be equipped and ready for “every good work”, that Timothy will “…always be steady, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil your ministry (ch. 4:5)!” So, the context was NOT, “hey, the bible is the sole rule of faith and is all you need!”, but, rather, “hey, buck up… soon I will be dead and you need to carry on the work of evangelization, the work of your office as Bishop, so prepare yourself!”

Now, you might say, “sure, ‘Sola Scriptura’ is not the main focus of the letter, but, he is insinuating to Timothy that the bible is the only perfect source to prepare him for his work of evangelization.” Is this true? No, of course not! Nowhere does St. Paul say that the bible is the only source for preparing the “man of God” for “every good work!” For instance, back up to chapter 2, and you will see how St. Paul instructs Timothy to live out his duty as a Bishop, as a Catholic Christian, one whom St. Paul had laid hands on and prayed over (chapter 1:6) in his ordiantion.

2 Timothy 2:20–26 (RSVCE) 20 In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and earthenware, and some for noble use, some for ignoble. 21 If any one purifies himself from what is ignoble, then he will be a vessel for noble use, consecrated and useful to the master of the house, ready for any good work. 22 So shun youthful passions and aim at righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart. 23 Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. 24 And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, forbearing, 25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth, 26 and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Now, if in fact St. Paul believed in “Sola Scriptura”, don’t you think there would have been an emphasis on “reading” from it as the only means by which to be equipped for his work as Bishop? Yet, instead of saying something like, “read scripture, and learn its lessons and apply them, then pass out scripture for others to read as well!”, he says rather,“You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, 2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also” (vs.1&2), “shun youthful passions” (vs. 22), “Have nothing to do with stupid, senseless controversies” (vs. 23), and, not to mention, “Avoid such godless chatter” (vs. 16). In a nutshell, St. Paul exhorts Timothy to seek holiness, to live holiness and “present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth (vs. 15).”

If you were St. Paul, and you really wanted to teach the world the doctrine of “Sola Scriptura”, would you have written these verses in this vague, “beat around the bush” kind of way? No! Its more likely you would have chosen stronger language to express so fundamental a “doctrine” as “Sola Scriptura”. Maybe, just maybe, that language doesn’t exist because St. Paul doesn’t actually believe in “Sola Scriptura”! Maybe this could explain why he NEVER says anywhere, let alone in this letter, that the bible is the sole rule of faith for the believer. It would seem that St. Paul thinks of scripture as one tool in the toolbox of holiness, and not the only tool!

So, this reasoning too, fails the common sense test, clearly St. Paul has listed many other things in which Timothy, let alone others, MUST DO to be perfect in the faith, other than just reading the bible, to be equipped for “every good work!” St. Paul will also make this point in Ephesians 6:11, “Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.” He goes on to explain how the various parts of the armor represent the various aspects of the faith that we MUST “put on” to combat the devil… “the sword of the Spirit, the word of God”, is only one of those “must have” items! In fact, the sword is listed last, and we must put on the whole armor of God, not just take up the word of God!

Thirdly, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 it’s easy to read it through too quickly and misunderstand what St. Paul is trying to say. For instance, who is “perfect”? Is he referring here to Scripture? Or is he referring to the “man of God?” On our first pass, we said it was scripture that was perfect, but, is that true? Let’s read it again, only this time, lets pay closer attention.

2 Timothy 3:16–17 (RSVCE) 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

As it turns out, it’s NOT scripture that is “complete”, “sufficient”, or even “perfect”, but, rather, it is the “man of God” that enjoys this adjective of “completeness” (ἄρτιος – artios). In fact, notice what adjective St. Paul uses to describe scripture in verse 16, ὠφέλιμος (ophelimos), which means “useful”, “beneficial”, or “profitable”. The contrast between these two words could not be greater. The “man of God” is artios, perfect, and scripture is ophelimos, merely profitable and NOT perfect. “Hold on!” you might say, “sure, but, its the scriptures that make the ‘man of God’ perfect, therefore scripture too is perfect!” Is this true? No! That’s not what St. Paul said! Does this somehow mean that scripture is not important? No! Of course not! It is, after all, inspired by God, and one of the chief components of the armor of God, used in conjunction with the other items, the FULL armor of God, to make the “man of God” perfect, complete for “every good work!” Scripture, as the Church reaffirmed at the Council of Trent holds a pride of place in the Christian faith, however, Scripture is still just one of the many components necessary. Therefore this reasoning too fails the common sense test.

Fourthly, did you notice what St. Paul says scripture is “profitable” for? He says its good for “… teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness…” in verse 16. If St. Paul truly did believe in “Sola Scriptura”, don’t you think he would have added a few more items to this list? Maybe something like “for settling all disputes over doctrine, for establishing every aspect of worship, for absolute authority for every believer, etc. etc. etc.” Clearly, St. Paul doesn’t say anything of the like, rather it would seem that St. Paul see’s scripture as a divinely inspire tool for, well, exactly what he said… “for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness!” To what end? To settle all debates among believers over doctrine? No! To prepare the “man of God” for every good work! In other words, to complete the Bishop for his role as “overseer” in the flock of Jesus Christ! If St. Paul is insinuating anything about absolute authority in this verse, its not scripture, but, rather, the Bishop who posses it.

Lastly, if this verse truly is an example of St. Paul teaching “Sola Scriptura”, then it should certainly not contradict anything else that St. Paul has written (let alone the rest of scripture). The question is then, are there any contradictions in his writings? As I said above, “Sola Scriptura” is the protestant teaching that the bible alone is the sole rule of authority for the believer. If St. Paul did believe this doctrine, then why did he say, “stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter” in 2 Thessalonians 2:15? It seems rather strange for him to “apparently” teach in one letter the “bible alone” is the only authority, then in another letter “traditions” passed on by “word of mouth” are equal to the written text. Don’t you think? Why would St. Paul introduce such confusion to the believer who might read his letter IF, in fact, he did believe in “Sola Scriptura?” After all, isn’t his letter divinely inspired?

The answer is, yes! His letter is divinely inspired, and it, in fact, does NOT teach the false notion of “Sola Scriptura” as many would like it to. St. Paul was a master at using the scriptures for “…teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness”, and yet it was not scripture that he taught was the “pillar and foundation of Truth”, but, rather, it was the Church!

1 Timothy 3:14–15 (RSVCE) 14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, 15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

Notice what he says in verse 14… he hopes to come to them, to teach them in person. St. Paul only writes the letter because he can not be there in person. The letter is clearly a secondary intention and will “just have to do” in his absence. And what is it that he is desperate to communicate to them? That the Church, the household of God, is the “pillar and bulwark” of truth (the inference is that if it’s the Church, then it’s NOT scripture). In fact, St. Paul holds the Church in so high a regard that in Ephesians 3:10, he teaches that it is the Church, not scripture, that teaches the “manifold wisdom of God”, even to the Angeles! So, this reasoning too fails the common sense test. St. Paul could not have been teaching “Sola Scriptura” in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, or anywhere else, as it would utterly violate his teaching is many other places.

The proponents of the false doctrine of “Sola Scriptura” can’t imagine a Christianity where they would have to submit their will to those they perceive to be “false shepherds”, the Bishops of the Catholic Church. As difficult as that truly is, it is, nonetheless, exactly what is called for. Too often we talk of faith, but, rarely, do we exercise it in this way. It is God who has placed fallible men over us. It is God who uses the weak to confound the wise. It is God who, took upon flesh, dwelt among men, called his twelve to himself, ordained them Priests and Bishops in the upper room, breathed upon them the Holy Spirit to send them to do what He was sent by the Father to do. It was that God-Man who said in Matthew 18:17, “…and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” So, let us die to self, take up our cross, step out in faith, and follow the Church Jesus established, and the Shepherd’s He set over it and us(John 21:20)."


Hope this article helps.
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
Make sure you understand me. I do not care what is thought of me or what I say.
Click to expand...

So are you denying your interpretation of these passages are nothing more than your personal, fallible, non-authoritative opinions which are subject to error?

I do not care what Mr. Justice says.
Click to expand...

That's not what was asked. What I asked was.... if it is your belief that the "Altar Call" is indeed biblical, why is it not all Christian, or even Evangelical churches, use altar calls? And, If you and Pastor Justice are being guided by the Holy Spirit in your beliefs for and against the practice of the Altar Call, which of you two is correct, and who is in error? One of you has to be in error for the Holy Spirit cannot teach error, correct? So which is it, you or he?



But when they (those words) speak to another Protestant like Pastor Justice not supporting the Rapture, and you both claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit in your beleifs for and against the practice of the Altar Call, which of you two is correct, and who is in error? One of you has to be in error for the Holy Spirit cannot teach error, correct? So which is it, you or he? It is your belief Maj1 that the words being spoke to you are under the guidence of the Holy Spirit..... correct?

If you do not want to accept them...…….I really do not care.
Click to expand...

Okay

An emphasis on "going public" with one's decision when it is made, telling all people about the decision to become a Christian has always been the accepted way of coming to Christ.
Click to expand...

I'm cool with that, I'm just saying the passages you quoted don't explicitly say it must be done in the form of an "Altar Call."

While there is certainly nothing wrong with "coming forward" to publicly tell people about your commitment to Jesus Christ, it is also not a requirement. Instead, a person comes to salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Click to expand...

And Eph. 2:10? "For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them?

You asked WHERE it was in the Scriptures and I showed you.
Click to expand...

You did? Hmmmm....


You reject those Scriptures and that is certainly your choice to do so.
Click to expand...

No my friend, I do not reject Scripture, just your personal, fallible, and non-authoritative version of it, which is subject to error.


Have a Blessed Day my friend!
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private


I'll let Catholic Apologist Father Bob Levis explain this passage to ya

"St. Paul, in his Epistle to the Romans, concentrated on the necessity of Faith, as opposed to the works of the Law. The whole first part of that Epistle is on Faith as critically essential to salvation which is quite contrary to the opinion of the Scribes and Pharisees and other Judaizers, who insisted on the necessity of keeping all the Law to be saved. So Rom.10:9 is a kind of summary statement of what Paul wrote before. It should not be read by itself independently of what preceded it. In short, don't take things out of context."

Besides, you'd be hard pressed to find St. Paul or St. Peter supporting such a prayer (see below) in Scripture on the day of Pentecost or any where else in the Bible.


"God, I know that I am a sinner. I know that I deserve the consequences of my sin. However, I am trusting in Jesus Christ as my Savior. I believe that His death and resurrection provided for my forgiveness. I trust in Jesus and Jesus alone as my personal Lord and Savior. Thank you Lord, for saving me and forgiving me! Amen!"


However, Scripture does say in Acts 2:28....“And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

And in Acts 22:16....“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized and wash away thy sins, calling on his name."
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
#3. Seperating young people during church services.
I have NO idea what you are referring to on this one.
Click to expand...

You mean to tell me you've never heard of any Protestant/non-denominational church or sect
sending young people off to their own “youth room,” often removing them from adult worship, for their own separate program outside of the ministry of the church? Or how about sending children off to Sunday school, away from adult worship?
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Do you believe that children, say 5 or 6 years old actually understand/comprehend the things said and done in a worship service or have you not seen that most of them fall asleep????

Why would you even question a process of an adult teaching children the Bible on a level that they can understand"

Oh...….there it is. You do not want the children taught the Bible.

Most all churches have "Youth" time. Always lead by adults but it is not in replacement of worship services but in addition to them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

I could choose any of literally a 100 Christian apologists to respond to your Catholic friend but I will simply use Barnes' Notes on the Bible...…….

"And wash away thy sins - Receive baptism as emblematic of the washing away of sins. It cannot be intended that the external rite of baptism was sufficient to make the soul pure, but that it was an ordinance divinely appointed as expressive of the washing away of sins, or of purifying the heart. Compare Hebrews 10:22. Sinners are represented in the Scriptures as defiled or polluted by sin.
"To wash away the sins" denotes "the purifying of the soul from this polluted influence," 1 Corinthians 6:11; Revelation 1:5; Revelation 7:14; Isaiah 1:16; Psalm 51:2, Psalm 51:7.

You are welcome to believe your Catholic friend and I will continue to believe the Bible.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

You said...……….
No my friend, I do not reject Scripture, just your personal, fallible, and non-authoritative version of it, which is subject to error.


And as I have said about 100 times to you...……...I am not infallible, I am not authoritive of anything except my wife and dog and I am subject to error.

I am nothing more than an old country boy who reads the Bible and tries to explain it as best he can.

If you do not agree with me...…….WONDERFUL! As I have said---- I do not care!

If you would like to discuss any Bible Scripture or you would like my understanding of one, please post it.

If you would like to discuss any Catholic teaching that IS NOT IN THE BIBLE such as Purgatory or the Rosary, or calling men FATHET or the inability of the laity to marry, please ask me and I will be glad to give you the Bible response.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

2 Timothy 3:16 explains that the entire Bible is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. Though this does not say that the Bible is the sole rule of faith, it is clear that it will thoroughly equip a person with faith which results in every good work. Thus, there is no need to find other books or people to give us a rule of faith for it has all been provided in the Bible. Furthermore the Bible warns against accepting rules taught by men and gospels other than those preached in the Bible. (Mark 7:6-8; 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galations 1:6-9)
Is the Bible a sole rule of faith (sola scriptura)? | Bibleinfo.com

2 Timothy 3:15-16 is a key passage that establishes this distinctive. Scripture is said to be “inspired” (theopneustos, “God-breathed”). God is the source of Scripture. While each book has a human author, God superintended them all by inspiration. Peter sheds more light on the human side of the equation: Scripture came not “by the will of man, but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21). God is the author of revelation and the Holy Spirit is the agent of inspiration whereby godly human instruments received and recorded revelation (1 Corinthians 2:10-13). The fact of Scripture’s divine origin yields a profound implication for its authority. Because of inspiration, Scripture is necessarily infallible (without error) and inerrant (incapable of error).

Scripture itself testifies to its own infallibility. Every Word of God is pure (Psalm 12:6; 119:40; Proverbs 30:5). In Psalm 19, God’s Word is “sure,” “right,” “pure,” “clean,” “true,” .

It is as are all other things………...your choice.
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Eph. 2:10. ......…
"For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them."

You say...……..
"Hey you missed that verse out."

However by looking at it closer, it does not.

Ephesians 2:8-10 says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Re-examining the whole passage with CONTEXT, it can be summarized as this-
salvation is NEVER by works that means it's not earned or even maintained by salvation otherwise that would be self-righteousness.

Instead, Ephesians 2:10 says that the Christian life is meant for good works as a result of salvation. It's the same as what Titus 2:11-15 which says.....
"For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

Thanks for the Scripture and If I can help you any more in understanding the Scriptures please do not hesitate to ask.

God bless my friend.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
Do you believe that children, say 5 or 6 years old actually understand/comprehend the things said and done in a worship service or have you not seen that most of them fall asleep????
Click to expand...


Yes I do, a child's mind at that age is very eager to learn.

Why would you even question a process of an adult teaching children the Bible on a level that they can understand"
Click to expand...

So is it your belief in the time of Jesus and the Apostles, Jesus sent the children away when He too was teaching Scripture?

Oh...….there it is. You do not want the children taught the Bible.
Click to expand...

Wow! When did you receive this gift of knowing what's in the heart's and mind's of other people?

Most all churches have "Youth" time. Always lead by adults but it is not in replacement of worship services but in addition to them.
Click to expand...

And that's all fine and dandy my friend. The reason I put this subject on my list was for you,,,,, a believer of the Bible Alone being the sole authority, to show where in the Bible it teaches to segregate children from the adult worship service. And if you cannot, admit it is nothing more than a man-made tradition. So........ which is it?


p.s. I also noticed once again my friend you failed to address my question reguarding the Rapture, so I'll post it again in the hope you will. Thanks in advance.

"But when they (those words) speak to another Protestant like Pastor Justice not supporting the Rapture, and you both claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit in your beleifs for and against the practice of the Altar Call, which of you two is correct, and who is in error? One of you has to be in error for the Holy Spirit cannot teach error, correct? So which is it, you or he? It is your belief Maj1 that the words being spoke to you are under the guidence of the Holy Spirit..... correct?"


Have a Blessed day my friend
 
Upvote 0
F

Fidelibus

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2017
1,191
304
69
U.S.A.
✟81,573.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Major1 said:
I could choose any of literally a 100 Christian apologists to respond to your Catholic friend but I will simply use Barnes' Notes on the Bible...…….
Click to expand...

That is your prerogative


Soooo..... are you suggesting we are to disreguard Acts 2:28, and Acts 22:16?


You are welcome to believe your Catholic friend and I will continue to believe the Bible.
Click to expand...

Oh.... you mean the Bible the Catholic Church compiled for you?
 
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Fidelibus said:
That is your prerogative



Soooo..... are you suggesting we are to disreguard Acts 2:28, and Acts 22:16?




Oh.... you mean the Bible the Catholic Church compiled for you?
Click to expand...

Oh I see. YOU have the ability to reject Christian sites such as "Got Questions" and Barnes' Notes on the Bible...……but those that represent the Catholic point of view are OK with you.

Did I say I rejected Acts 2:28?
"YOU HAVE MADE KNOWN TO ME THE WAYS OF LIFE; YOU WILL MAKE ME FULL OF GLADNESS WITH YOUR PRESENCE."

How did anything I said reject that Scripture my friend? I believe every Christian would agree with me that the versemeans the path to life; as we say, the road to preferment or honor; the path to happiness; the highway to ruin, etc. Take the time to read Proverbs 7:26-27.

It means, In my OPINION that God will make known to me life itself, that is, thou HE will restore me to life. The expressions in the Psalm are capable of this interpretation without doing any violence to the text; and if the preceding verses refer to the death and burial of the Messiah, then the natural and proper meaning of this is, that he would be restored to life again.

Now you asked about Acts 22:16. ………
"Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'

Thank you for asking for clarification of the Scriptures.
Vine's Greek Dictionary, as well as most all Christian commentators, has given the meaning of this as "Get yourself baptized and your sins washed away."

First of, mu opinion is the The verse actually is rejecting the practice of "SPRINKLING" in favor of IMMERSION.

It is possible, as in Acts 2:38, to take these words as teaching baptismal remission or salvation by means of baptism, but to do so is in my opinion a complete subversion of Paul‘s vivid and picturesque language. As in Romans 6:4-6 where baptism is the picture of death, burial and resurrection, so here baptism pictures the change that had already taken place when Paul surrendered to Jesus on the way (Acts 22:10). Baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ.

Then you posted...…..
"Oh.... you mean the Bible the Catholic Church compiled for you? "

Such a statement weakens the authority of the Bible and places the Roman Catholic Church in a position superior to Scripture. If the Word of YAH is holy only because the pope declares it to be so, that places the pope in a more important position than Yahuwah Himself, the divine Author.

When viewed in the light of the documented facts of history, such bold claims are revealed to be nothing more than audacious, deceptive boasts.

The claim is made about the “Catholic Church” not the “Roman Catholic Church” as most readers would assume. The word “catholic” simply means “universal.” So in that sense, it could be argued that the writers of the New Testament were of the “universal” body of believers which did, in fact, exist, before New Testament times.

However, the implication that it is only the declaration of the Roman Catholic Church “that the books of the New Testament are all inspired by God constitutes the sole authority for the universal belief of both Catholics and Protestants in their inspired character” is both incorrect and blasphemous.
Did the Roman Catholic Church Really Give Us the Bible?

I am blessed to be able to answer you questions on Scriptures and I look forward to more.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
11,018
6,441
Utah
✟853,083.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Fidelibus said:
I'll let Catholic Apologist Joe McClane explain 2Tim.3: 16-17 and Sola Scriptura:
Click to expand...
Hope this article helps.[/QUOTE]

Some people think there is an earthly organization that is the one true church as if a collection of people, church structures, and authority designates that it is the one true church on earth. The true Church is not an earthly organization. It is not a series of buildings and ceremonies rooted in ancient tradition. Instead, the church is the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate (reborn); that is, it consists of those who are "the called," the true Christians.

Rom. 1:6, "among whom you also are the called (klaytos) of Jesus Christ."

1 Cor. 1:24, "but to those who are the called (klaytos), both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

Jude 1, "Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are the called (klaytos), beloved in God the Father, and kept for Jesus Christ."

Rev. 17:14, "These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called (klaytos) and chosen (eklektos) and faithful."

The Greek word "klaytos" means "call, invited, divinely selected and appointed."1 The Greek word for "church" is ekklesia and is formed from a compound of the word "ek" (out of) and "kaleo" (call). Therefore, the church is the "called out ones." "Eklektos" in Rev. 17:14 above means simply means "chosen" and comes from the verb "eklegomai" which means to choose, to choose out. Therefore, the church, the ekklesia, is the "called out ones."

Gods people "the called are everywhere within church organizations and outside of them.

Either one believes the Holy Bible in it's entirety OT and NT is absolute truth or not. Lots of ideas, opinions, interpretations. All seek to understand and that is good.

So, you are Catholic and the teachings are acceptable to you. That's ok. That's your truth.

Some teachings of the Catholic church and/or other organized earthly religions are not acceptable to me. Yes, I rely on the bible only and my best understanding of it thus far. Thus far because my personal study of it is life-long. This is also ok. That's my truth.

Atheism - that's what they believe, their truth, also ok.

Truth defined:

a fact or belief that is accepted as true.

Beliefs are personal, and each of us own their personal beliefs.

In relation to Gods word, each of us are responsible for what we believe and each of us are free to believe what we want and that's ok. We discuss these different beliefs and put forth our reasons why we believe what we believe ... and that's ok and is good.

In the very end ... all will be held accountable for what each of us personally believe/believed ... and accepted as truth.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any double-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul and spirit, joints and marrow, as it judges the thoughts and purposes of the heart.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.

Personally I believe the Holy Bible is absolute truth ... and I seek understanding. I'm a seeker and always will be.

Acts 4

And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

John 1:14

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Word of God lives and is active! Amen.

Thank you Jesus for showing me you ARE the Word.

May God Bless you through His Word. Amen

Hope this helps.
 
Reactions: Major1
Upvote 0

Major1

Well-Known Member
Sep 17, 2016
10,551
2,837
Deland, Florida
✟211,285.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

You did not post a Scripture which is why I did not respond. I am not going to spend the time entertaining your thoughts of why this and why that as all it leads to is confrontation.

Titus 3:9...……
"But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

But just for you I will answer your question of...……………..
""But when they (those words) speak to another Protestant like Pastor Justice not supporting the Rapture, and you both claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit in your beleifs for and against the practice of the Altar Call, which of you two is correct, and who is in error? One of you has to be in error for the Holy Spirit cannot teach error, correct? So which is it, you or he? It is your belief Maj1 that the words being spoke to you are under the guidence of the Holy Spirit..... correct?"

As is seen here on this web site, people claiming to be Christians come to different opinions about ethical and other matters because of: differing views on biblical inspiration, different hermeneutics, different exegesis, and the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, who helps illuminate one’s mind to ‘truth.’

1. Differing Views of Inspiration.
If one is a believer in Christ OR if one has come to believe that the Holy Bible is from God and that it articulates God’s perspective and, literally, “truth,” then that person would hold a high view of scripture. Such people naturally believe that God is our ultimate authority, so they want to know exactly what He says. In addition, those people believe that God knows everything– so learning from Him and seeking to live consistently with scriptural teachings– is a way to live a blessed life and one with great meaning, regardless of how much pain life may or may not deal out. In this view, pain doesn’t imply God’s disfavor– what matters is devotion to God, obedience to His Word, and seeking His perspective in order to gain meaning in life.

2. Different Hermeneutical Methods
Hermeneutics is concerned with understanding how the human author of a particular Bible book should relate to the content being presented, and how that should relate to the original readers of the biblical passage and to those who read those same verses of scripture today. So that is the so-called “hermeneutical bridge”– namely, what did it mean in the mind of the writer as that person understood the mind of God, and what did that mean to the people to whom it was addressed… and what application does that timeless truth have for us today? That is the job of hermeneutics– and that is the job of every person who teaches the Bible or seeks to properly interpret the Bible.

3. Different Approaches to Exegesis
Exegesis is the process of seeking to understand what a text means or communicates in its unretouched, unfiltered original meaning. In other words, good exegesis seeks to provide the plain sense of what a particular portion of scripture (verse/verses) means. Metaphorically, it implies looking closely at the scriptures with spiritual glasses that have exacting and accurate lens that are able to view the accurate meaning of the original author. Exegesis is concerned with telling us what the original author meant– as opposed to simply telling us “what it means TO US.”

4. The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, who helps illuminate one’s mind to ‘truth.’
1 Corinthians 1:18-through chapter 2 in the New Testament talks a lot about this. In short, it simply means that people who profess to be Christians but who do not possess the presence of God within them, through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, may be religionists or socially religious practitioners, but they fail to meet the biblical description of a person who is a biblical or born-again Christian (1 John, chapters 4-5), especially 1 John 4:13-17.
Why People Interpret the Bible Differently and Why It Matters

Thanks for the question but in the future please post a Bible Scripture you would like to discuss.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Why are some Catholics scared of studying the Bible themselves?
Replies
20
Views
952
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Valletta
Documentary on 'the most transformative book in all of human history' looks at rise of Bible lessons in public schools
Replies
0
Views
162
Current News & Events (Articles Required)
Michie
How to answer tough questions as a Catholic
Replies
0
Views
181
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
The Bible, Age of the Earth and Evolution
Replies
4
Views
930
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
FaithT
The Unfolding of Your Words
Replies
2
Views
250
Deeper Fellowship
Christsfreeservant
Menu
Log in
Register