Questions about "The Queen of Heaven"

[RINO 72]

Last night I come home from work and notice the wife getting worked up (emotionally) about something on T.V.It was Nightline:Miracles from the Virgin Mary.It was basically about the shrines to Mary, where she has been sighted and the healing power to those that make the pilgrimage.It seems 30 years ago Mary appeared on a hill in Mejdugorje,Yugoslavia/Bosnia, and has been appearing (to Roman Catholics) ever since.

My wife is a Christian but she is not a "wake up early,make coffee,read some scripture before work" kinda person as i am.When my wife sees hundreds of thousands of people lining up just to get near this woman who saw Mary and hears the stories of healings,I can tell it made her think "why doesnt our church ever bring up Mary outside of the virgin birth ?" I have never been to Mass,I have no understanding of Mary's place in the Catholic church.
So I am coming to you guys instead of going on a full fledged internet search that will turn up claims such as "the only way to Christ is through Mary" or others that will say "Mary is the antichrist."(yes,Ive done this already)
I know the New testament,Mary is a very blessed woman.However there is absolutely nothing in scripture to suggest she be worshiped.
Does the Catholic Church worship Mary? I live in Texas where there are a whole lotta Southern Baptist and a whole lotta Catholics (Hispanic community).A few weeks ago I saw a black truck with John 3:16 on the back window,I thought that was cool and then noticed underneath that was an image of Mary.It made no sense.
Has Mary always played this large of a role in the Catholic Church?
There is NOTHING in scripture to elevate Mary to the level many Catholics put her on,has this been something that has increased over the centuries?
How do Catholics sidestep the fact that the Bible tells us that Jesus had many brothers and sisters?To show you guys (we say yall) how little I know about the subject,when I heard the term "Immaculate Conception" I always assumed it referred to Christ.Mary was born without sin and lived a sinless life to the point that she never had sex?How is this possible when two of His younger brothers were Apostles?
Thanks

 

[NOTurTypical]

To Catholics, church doctrine and tradition is the same as scripture. So where church doctrine and tradition conflicts with scripture they always go with what the church and pope says.

 

[Winter]

Hi Rino,

If you'd like those questions answered, I'd suggest you bring them to OBOB so that you get clear and accurate answers. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misunderstanding about Catholics and Mary and you will get wrong answers if you post your questions elsewhere. Just saying. Its up to you. God bless.

 

[largeli]

I saw part of that show last night....I dont intend to disrespect anyone or anything toward the catholic church, but *in my opinion* The devil is satisfied whenever we are distracted and lead away from giving ALL the glory to Jesus Christ. ALL the glory belongs to Him and He will not share His glory with another.

Im not very familiar with catholic doctrine and so I wont debate it but I believe that Mary was a young woman who was a sinner in need of a saviour as are all of us. I do not know if catholics would agree with this though.

 

[FriendlyJosh]

I'm not officially a Catholic yet, and I didn't want to share my opinion because I don't feel I give due justice to the subject, but i'll share anyway. In the book "The way of divine Love" Jesus came down in the 1920's and had a Saint write down everything he told her, he talked about his infinite love and mercy, allowed the Devil to take the saint to hell various times and in this book(which really happened, although a private revelation the Pope at the time said in his opinion it was 100% authentic, if you read it you'll know it's true, i've wrote a much longer post on it here before i'll try and find) anyway in this book Jesus says himself Mary is the queen of heaven, she definitely heard this saints prayers and appeared to her numerous times.

Now I know you guys aren't catholic, but let me explain this to you how I understand it, logically. We all know that The Lords love is infinite, as is his mercy, we know this because he's said so himself and has shown it throughout the bible. In the bible the Lord blessed many people, from soloman to everyone else, all of whom are wretched sinners like you and me. Now God The Father chose a woman(Mary) to bare his Son, The Son of God, think about how incredible and important that is...clearly The Lord wouldn't just choose anyone. In the book The Way Of Divine Love Jesus say she was choosen because of how uh, sorry I can't remember the exact words but basically how amazing and good she was, she was as close to sinless as a human can be I believe. Not only that but The Lord said he loved her more than angels because she, unlike angels had to endure all the miseries of life and still was amazing in her goodness etc...(sorry I can't remember the beautiful exact words he used) Now you have to ask yourself if the Lord blessed wretched sinners the way he did, how do you think he would bless The Mother he loves so much? The Mother who's brought much glory to his name. I assure you, she IS the queen of heaven, and she absolutely without a doubt deserves your utmost respect and appreciation, and by doing so you not only honor her but you honor The Lord as well. I seen a video of a priest who died and was before Jesus for judgement and Jesus after looking over his life sentenced him to hell, however Mary was there as well and asked her son to give him graces etc...and another chance, so Jesus agreed and sent him back to earth.

‪PRIEST SENTENCED TO HELL BY JESUS!!!‬‏ - YouTube

when you pray to saints, you're praying so they'll intercede for you to The Lord. If you remember in the Old Testament this existed, with people bringing their burnt offerings to the levites(who were the only ones allowed in the tabernacle) to burn them on their behalf to The Lord. I pray we don't allow pride or hate cloud of views or our hearts, God Bless you all

 

[Rhamiel]

interesting questions

 

[Vendetta]

I'll also help poach. Come to the OBOB (One Bread, One Body) subforum that appears directly to the right of the non-denom subforum on the main page and you can have Catholics answer your questions. We can't debate/answer you in here without strict limitations, if at all. As long as you're truly seeking our justification for doing it, then we'll be more than happy to help you. Otherwise, you'll get a lot of people here who have varying grasps on the subject, for better or worse. After all, I wouldn't ask OBOB why the Calvinists think God denies free will. It wouldn't garner me very many properly informed responses.

 

[largeli]

Friendly Josh,

The bible says that we are not to add or take away anything from the bible, so how is it that there was a new revelation in the 1920's? Also the bible says that we are not to accept any "new" teachings but only the gospels of the bible....it even says that it doesnt matter if angels appear to you to give you revelations! It is not to be accepted. It also warns that the devil will mascarade as a holy being...To me this is all I would need to disguard the new revelation from 1920.

Also Mary being holy or close to sinless just doesnt line up with what we know of God. Go consistantly chose "the least of these" to do His work. He consistantly chose and chooses people who are the smallest, weakest, unworthy, to do His work....Lets look at David. There were many wives of David and God ccould have chosen any one of those wives to continue in the blood line that would bring Jesus...but God used Bethsheba to continue His plan of bringing Jesus. Bethsheba who was the object of Davis lust and greatest sin! God uses the un spectacular or even worse to bring forth His beauty!

The entire circumstances of His birth dont line up with the belief that Mary was sinless or "good". Born in a manger and sharing a bed with animals. Everything about His birth and the circumstances surrounding it were humble and low. He was despised, rejected, put to a shamefull death, everything about His life was filled with humility. He washed feet. He was spit on. Everything about Jesus was humble. Why would Mary be different?

Lastly you mentioned the OT praying for intercession....in the NT at Christs death the veil was torn. The veil was torn. Think about that. In the OT moses interceded for the people. Moses spoke directly to God. The saints do not interced for us. Jesus intercedes for us.

The veil was torn and Jesus is our mediator to God. We have an open door to God through Jesus.

 

[FriendlyJosh]

Friendly Josh,

The bible says that we are not to add or take away anything from the bible, so how is it that there was a new revelation in the 1920's? Also the bible says that we are not to accept any "new" teachings but only the gospels of the bible....it even says that it doesnt matter if angels appear to you to give you revelations! It is not to be accepted. It also warns that the devil will mascarade as a holy being...To me this is all I would need to disguard the new revelation from 1920.

i'm not familiar with where it says that, I am aware it warns of false prophets, but I will say this, God is The God of love, being in hell is being separated from God, and I believe in the book it said no one in hell can love anymore. So the beautiful things Jesus said in this book couldn't of been by the devil, because he's not capable of loving, infact why would he write a book about how loving and merciful The Lord is? makes absolutely no sense, i'd imagine he'd want the complete opposite, for people to believe he nor The Lord exists so that it's easier for him to draw them towards sin and darkness. Honestly I think you're just trying to find any excuse to deny, which is unfortunate.

Also Mary being holy or close to sinless just doesnt line up with what we know of God. Go consistantly chose "the least of these" to do His work. He consistantly chose and chooses people who are the smallest, weakest, unworthy, to do His work....Lets look at David. There were many wives of David and God ccould have chosen any one of those wives to continue in the blood line that would bring Jesus...but God used Bethsheba to continue His plan of bringing Jesus. Bethsheba who was the object of Davis lust and greatest sin! God uses the un spectacular or even worse to bring forth His beauty!

The entire circumstances of His birth dont line up with the belief that Mary was sinless or "good". Born in a manger and sharing a bed with animals. Everything about His birth and the circumstances surrounding it were humble and low. He was despised, rejected, put to a shamefull death, everything about His life was filled with humility. He washed feet. He was spit on. Everything about Jesus was humble. Why would Mary be different?

I don't understand? I think it's made clear by The Lord many times that humbleness, kindness, love and similar qualities are what pleases him, Mary being poor was probably very humble, so why don't you think it adds up?

Lastly you mentioned the OT praying for intercession....in the NT at Christs death the veil was torn. The veil was torn. Think about that. In the OT moses interceded for the people. Moses spoke directly to God. The saints do not interced for us. Jesus intercedes for us.

The veil was torn and Jesus is our mediator to God. We have an open door to God through Jesus.

I'm not saying you can't pray to The Lord directly, ofcourse you can! is a great blessing The Lord gives us, but I think the thought of not honoring The Lord by praying to saints to intercede for us as well is the stuff of pride. The Lord made it very clear he wants us to love one another, and by praying to saints you're not worshiping them, you're still worshiping The Lord through them. Saints are people The Lord chooses, so clearly they are special, regardless of what you may think,they ARE special because of the simple fact The Lord choose them. Remember when anyone but the levites would touch the Ark Of The Convenant? They would die. Also remember that people could pray directly to The Lord during this time as well, and in the book I mentioned before Jesus says himself he gives priests the power to forgive sin on his behalf and that when they call he comes down I believe. I want you to think of the implications of Priests saying they can forgive sin, imagine they were wrong, all of them? How do you think The Lord would react? clearly to me that's a very serious thing, because they're Holy people...yet what do we see? Priests(exorcists) healing people under demonic influence via calling on The Lord,and all kinds of miracles and amazing things. If they were lieing I don't think this would be the case, I know they're not lieing, for people to deny based on simple misunderstandings of biblical text when similar or exact examples were in the bible to me is just of pride. If I told you I was smarter than you, your immediately reaction would probably be yeah right, even if I was or weren't(which i'm probably not ) my point is I don't know why but most people feel entitled and are much faster to doubt and jump to the negative than to the positive,this can be good I guess, or it can be very bad.

 

[largeli]

FreindlyJosh

Here are the scriptures I was reffering to..

2 Cor 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

Gal 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

Rev 22:18, 19
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Its not that Im looking for any excuse not to believe what you are saying. Its that every teaching and instruction is to be examined and tested with scripture to see if it stands up against the light of scripture..

Acts 17:11
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Just because a spirit appears to someone and claims to be Jesus doesnt make it so. You have to take whatever revelation you receive or whatever teaching you receive whether its from a man or a spirit, and you must test it against the scriptures. Then you can decide whether or not to accept it.

As far as the devil wanting us to all be atheists, I dont think he cares what we believe as long as it takes our focus of Jesus as the only way, truth, and the light. It is by His blood we are saved. Its not by the prayers and petitioning of saints.

 

[FriendlyJosh]

thankyou largeli, thinking about the book it doesn't go against the bible at all, infact Jesus gives details about events in the bible, like what happened before his crucifixion, his words are truly beautiful and I have no doubt they were from The Lord to give you some examples.

“It is My intention also, to show souls that I never refuse grace, even to those who are guilty of grave sin; nor do I separate them from the good souls whom I love with predilection. I keep them all in My Heart, that all may receive the help needed for their state of soul.” -Jesus to Sr. Josefa Menendez

“I would like these [those living with sin] to understand that it is not the fact of being in sin that ought to keep them from Me. They must never think that there is no remedy for them, nor that they have forfeited for ever the love that once was theirs.... No, poor souls, the God who has shed all His Blood for you has no such feelings for you!”

“Come all of you to Me and fear not, for I Love you all... I will wash you in My Blood and you shall be made whiter than snow. All of your offences will be submerged in the waters in which I myself shall wash you, nor shall anything whatsoever be able to tear from My Heart its Love for you."


the white than snow comment was said in the bible too I believe

"Oh, all you who are steeped in sin, and who for a time more or less long have lived as wanderers and fugitives because of your crimes ... if the offences of which you have been guilty have hardened and blinded your hearts . . . if to grant satisfaction to one or other of your passions you have sunk into evil ways ... Ah! when the motives or accomplices of your sin have forsaken you, and you realize the state of your soul, oh then, do not yield to despair! For as long as a breath of life remains a man may have recourse to mercy and ask for pardon.

more at Mystics of the Church: Sister Josefa Menendez The Way of Divine Love

God Bless you brother

 

[Jerushabelle]

Brother Eucharisted posted this over in GT. Although the rest of the thread isn't worth the time to review because a lot of the replies are disrespectful to our Catholic Brothers and Sisters, I found Brother Eucharisted's OP very informative and helpful to me. Perhaps you all will also.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7440141/#post54112363

 

[Mr. Donut]

Hi Rino,

If you'd like those questions answered, I'd suggest you bring them to OBOB so that you get clear and accurate answers. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misunderstanding about Catholics and Mary and you will get wrong answers if you post your questions elsewhere. Just saying. Its up to you. God bless.

interesting questions

I'll also help poach. Come to the OBOB (One Bread, One Body) subforum that appears directly to the right of the non-denom subforum on the main page and you can have Catholics answer your questions. We can't debate/answer you in here without strict limitations, if at all. As long as you're truly seeking our justification for doing it, then we'll be more than happy to help you. Otherwise, you'll get a lot of people here who have varying grasps on the subject, for better or worse. After all, I wouldn't ask OBOB why the Calvinists think God denies free will. It wouldn't garner me very many properly informed responses.

Hey, jump in and give answers!
The forum rules say that we are to respect each other, not shield ourselves from one another!
I promise not to spit on you if you don't spit on me, ok?

 

[Vendetta]

Hey, jump in and give answers!
The forum rules say that we are to respect each other, not shield ourselves from one another!
I promise not to spit on you if you don't spit on me, ok?

Indeed, but we're strictly following the rule against teaching our faith in other subforums. No worries about me spitting on you guys as I was non-denominational until I converted to Catholicism this past Easter. It's just a lot easier to have it in our forum. OP has been reposted over there, so if you guys are interested in this thread then here's the copy in ours. http://www.christianforums.com/t7577123/

Pax

 

[largeli]

thankyou largeli, thinking about the book it doesn't go against the bible at all, infact Jesus gives details about events in the bible, like what happened before his crucifixion, his words are truly beautiful and I have no doubt they were from The Lord to give you some examples.

“It is My intention also, to show souls that I never refuse grace, even to those who are guilty of grave sin; nor do I separate them from the good souls whom I love with predilection. I keep them all in My Heart, that all may receive the help needed for their state of soul.” -Jesus to Sr. Josefa Menendez

“I would like these [those living with sin] to understand that it is not the fact of being in sin that ought to keep them from Me. They must never think that there is no remedy for them, nor that they have forfeited for ever the love that once was theirs.... No, poor souls, the God who has shed all His Blood for you has no such feelings for you!”

“Come all of you to Me and fear not, for I Love you all... I will wash you in My Blood and you shall be made whiter than snow. All of your offences will be submerged in the waters in which I myself shall wash you, nor shall anything whatsoever be able to tear from My Heart its Love for you."


the white than snow comment was said in the bible too I believe

"Oh, all you who are steeped in sin, and who for a time more or less long have lived as wanderers and fugitives because of your crimes ... if the offences of which you have been guilty have hardened and blinded your hearts . . . if to grant satisfaction to one or other of your passions you have sunk into evil ways ... Ah! when the motives or accomplices of your sin have forsaken you, and you realize the state of your soul, oh then, do not yield to despair! For as long as a breath of life remains a man may have recourse to mercy and ask for pardon.

more at Mystics of the Church: Sister Josefa Menendez The Way of Divine Love

God Bless you brother

God Bless You too.

 

[Rhamiel]

Hey, jump in and give answers!
The forum rules say that we are to respect each other, not shield ourselves from one another!
I promise not to spit on you if you don't spit on me, ok?

I did not want to disrespect you guys by trying to teach in your subforum

 

[Rhamiel]

Friendly Josh,

The bible says that we are not to add or take away anything from the bible, so how is it that there was a new revelation in the 1920's? Also the bible says that we are not to accept any "new" teachings but only the gospels of the bible....it even says that it doesnt matter if angels appear to you to give you revelations! It is not to be accepted. It also warns that the devil will mascarade as a holy being...To me this is all I would need to disguard the new revelation from 1920.

Catholics also believe that this is is true
no new teachings
if any vision gives a message that is new then we know it is not a vision from God
all of the visions from angels or saints only encourage the gospel message

 

[RINO 72]

I have to say that thus far,I'm a little embarrassed about the lack of knowledge I had (or have) about the Catholic faith.It seems we are very far apart on some key issues(this just in).Most notably may be the understanding of how one gets saved.It seems their notion of salvation is very much "works" based.

 

[Incariol]

Pointing out that St. Jerome wrote a defense of the perpetual virginity of Mary, Against Helvidius.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/helvidiu.htm

"
1. I was requested by certain of the brethren not long ago to reply to a pamphlet written by one Helvidius. I have deferred doing so, not because it is a difficult matter to maintain the truth and refute an ignorant boor who has scarce known the first glimmer of learning, but because I was afraid my reply might make him appear worth defeating.



There was the further consideration that a turbulent fellow (the only individual in the world who thinks himself both priest and layman, one who, as has been said, thinks that eloquence consists in wordiness and considers speaking ill of anyone to be the witness of a good conscience), would begin to blaspheme worse than ever if opportunity of discussion were afforded him. He would stand as it were on a pedestal, and would publish his views far and wide.



There was reason also to fear that when truth failed him he would assail his opponents with the weapon of abuse.



But all these motives for silence, though just, have more justly ceased to influence me, because of the scandal caused to the brethren who were disgusted at his ravings. The axe of the Gospel must therefore be now laid to the root of the barren tree, and both it and its fruitless foliage cast into the fire, so that Helvidius -- who has never learnt to speak -- may at length learn to hold his tongue.


2. I must call upon the Holy Spirit to express His meaning by my mouth and defend the virginity of Blessed Mary. I must call upon the Lord Jesus to guard the sacred lodging of the womb in which He abode for ten months from all suspicion of sexual intercourse. And I must also entreat God the Father to show that the mother of His Son, who was a mother before she was a bride, continued a virgin after her son was born."

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Does the Catholic Church worship Mary?"

They SAY they don't, and "Officially" they "don't" - but they do. Simple as that.

"Has Mary always played this large of a role in the Catholic Church?"

She's been "In Development" for many years as the heresy builds on itself.

The Orthodox tend to have a MORE reasonable attitude toward her - only ascribing "perpetual virginity", and "sinlessness" - which is, of course, the START of the errors.

Romanists have her "Immaculately conceived" (Without original sin), totally sinless during her entire life, Perpetually virgin, AND "Assumed into heaven", the "Heavenly function" of mediatrix, "Queen of heaven" and they're WORKING on giving her the title of CO-Redemptorix with Jesus. Different denominations within Catholicism (They call 'em "Orders") place more or less emphasis on Marian things.

"How do Catholics sidestep the fact that the Bible tells us that Jesus had many brothers and sisters?"

They play "Word games" - Joseph was an old widower, and other kids were his from an earlier marriage, or the kids were not biological children - just cousins - etc. there are all sorts of fantasies/rationalizations.

"How is this possible when two of His younger brothers were Apostles?"

Rome has built their "Tradition" walls HIGH and STRONG, and there are ALL SORTS of things that are taught as "Holy Tradition", that are nothing but folklore, and superstition. Rome won't be listening to ANYBODY any time soon, though. The BEST course is NEVER argue theology with a Romanist - because you're get NOWHERE with intellectual reasoning AND you generally don't really know the "Terminology" well enough to communicate.

Give them YOUR testimony of what the Lord has done FOR YOU, and tell them what you believe - and LEAVE IT THERE!!!!! The Holy Spirit can punch a hole in their beliefs easily, and lead 'em to the truth. He's the ONLY one who can.