QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEPHILIM...Genesis 6: 1-4

[freespirit2001]

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEPHILIM....


" ...the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such as them as they chose."...." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of god came in to the daughters, and children were born unto them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men reknown." Genesis 6: 2, 4

I am very curious about this passage and how people view the understanding of this passage in modern day terms...I had a bible study question about the wonder of this passage and was told these angels actually did exist and later they became the myths of the greek and roman gods and goddesses...I would like to hear all information that can be gathered on the Nephilim...I know being so much closer to the origins of the Garden of Eden---"Closer to the Age of Perfection"...people lived closer to perfection with their birth origins at the beginning of time and had longer life times...or possibly aged more slowly (?)

" And the angels that did not keep their own position but left their proper dwelling have been kept by him in eternal chains in the nether gloom until the judgement of the great day." Jude 1: 6


I believe this passage in Jude also refers to the Nephilim.

Somehow I am also wondering if and how these angels could have existed from a scientific explanation...considering all the technology we have in our space and medical and military sciences...will we one day have the science that could exemplify the capabilites of the Nephilim?


" For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous and the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah...." I Peter 3: 18-20

" For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God." I peter 4: 6

Will someday, some of these Nephilim be allowed by God to be freed from their chains...(?) and be allowed to continue using their abilites to the Glory of God, through grace and salvation of Christ Jesus ? ???

 

[JohnStevenson]

Two basic interpretations have been offered to the Nephilim of Genesis 6.

The first is that it refers to fallen angels. This is the view held by the translators of the Septuagint as well as by Josephus. It says that certain angels sinned by entering into physical relations with humans (Jude 6; I Peter 3:19-20; II Peter 2:4).

The Hebrew phrase used here for "sons of God" is only found three other times in the rest of the Old Testament (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7). In each of those instances, it seems to refer to angels.

It is suggested that this phrase denotes a direct creation from God. Such were the angels and such was Adam (Luke 3:38). However, Adam's natural descendants are not the special creation of God and can only become "sons of God" through a new birth.

Some have argued that angels do not marry and are not given in marriage, but this is only said to be true of the elect angels who are in heaven (Matthew 22:30).

On the other hand, the Scriptures indicate that angels often appear to be undistinguishable from men (case of Lot entertaining angels in Sodom).

The major problem with this view is the context - up to this point there has been no mention made of angels, fallen or unfallen.

I lean instead toward the view that the "sons of God" are a reference to the line of Seth.

- The previous two chapters which form the context of these verses are taken up in detailing a contrast between the two lines of Cain and Seth.

- Genesis 4:26 says that after Seth began his line "men began to call upon the name of the Lord."

- Warnings against marriage between believers and unbelievers is a common theme in Genesis (24:3-4; 27:46; 28:1-3).

- In Genesis 6:3 and 5 it is the wickedness of MEN which brought about the judgment of the flood. Nothing further is said about angels or the sons of God being judged.

An interesting spin on this view comes from Meredith Kline who suggests that these are dynastic rulers. He points out that magistrates and administrators of justice are called ELOHIM in Exodus 21:6; 22:8, 9, 28, and in Psalm 82:1 and 6. He also shows how this same sort of phrasing was regularly used in Sumerian and Babylonian writings (see Meredith G. Kline, "Divine Kingship and Genesis 6:1-4," Westminster Theological Journal 24, 1962).

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE NEPHILIM....


" ...the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were fair; and they took to wife such as them as they chose."...." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of god came in to the daughters, and children were born unto them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men reknown." Genesis 6: 2, 4

I am very curious about this passage and how people view the understanding of this passage in modern day terms...I had a bible study question about the wonder of this passage and was told these angels actually did exist and later they became the myths of the greek and roman gods and goddesses...I would like to hear all information that can be gathered on the Nephilim...I know being so much closer to the origins of the Garden of Eden---"Closer to the Age of Perfection"...people lived closer to perfection with their birth origins at the beginning of time and had longer life times...or possibly aged more slowly (?)

" And the angels that did not keep their own position but left their proper dwelling have been kept by him in eternal chains in the nether gloom until the judgement of the great day." Jude 1: 6


I believe this passage in Jude also refers to the Nephilim.

Somehow I am also wondering if and how these angels could have existed from a scientific explanation...considering all the technology we have in our space and medical and military sciences...will we one day have the science that could exemplify the capabilites of the Nephilim?


" For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous and the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; in which he went and preached to spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah...." I Peter 3: 18-20

" For this is why the gospel was preached even to the dead, that though judged in the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like God." I peter 4: 6

Will someday, some of these Nephilim be allowed by God to be freed from their chains...(?) and be allowed to continue using their abilites to the Glory of God, through grace and salvation of Christ Jesus ? ???

Nephilim are half human and half angel thus they were Gaints

these evil angels also tried to ruin God creation by doing this to animals, birds, insects, ect

 

[JohnStevenson]

Nephilim are half human and half angel thus they were Gaints

Interestingly, we see "Nephilim" later on in the Bible. Numbers 13:33 tells us that the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim.

The word seems to come from NEPHAL which describes "fallen ones" (we speak of the "Niph'al stem" in Hebrew which is the passive or "fallen" stem.

these evil angels also tried to ruin God creation by doing this to animals, birds, insects, ect

Sounds to me like a flight of fancy. Nothing in the Bible even hints of such a thing.

 

[theseed]

All I have heard is that this is where the giants come in, and Goliath of Gath was left over from these "sons of God"

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Nephilim are half human and half angel thus they were Gaints

these evil angels also tried to ruin God creation by doing this to animals, birds, insects, ect

gen 6:12 for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth

all flesh??? verse?

how about 1 cor 15:39

1 peter 3:19-20 angels that left first estate are preached too!
not all the demononic Angels

2 peter 2:4
jude 6-7

some but not all verses for doubting thomas

 

[JohnStevenson]

All I have heard is that this is where the giants come in, and Goliath of Gath was left over from these "sons of God"

The Genesis account is quite specific to say that all flesh was destroyed in the Flood except for those who were in the ark. And I venture to say that there were no giants in the ark.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

But there was different angels that where able to leave their first estate to pervert creation of God.

the angels that did this before the flood where put in prison and are not allowed out at all till sentencing of judgement

 

[TheScottsMen]

Satan was trying to defile the human line. Noah was the only person found without BLEMISH. His family history had not intermarrying between angels and women. Everyone else was killed in the flood. Satan again tried to defile the human line again but as we know, christ made it, now there was no reason for satan to mix angels and humans. The reason he was doing it had come.

 

[Quest4Truth]

This is a great question and one which I have likewise sought an answer to. While I don't know of a definitive answer, there are some intriguing details contained in the KJV and Young's Literal Trans. of the passage.

If you read the passage in the KJV and then Young's translation and the version you quoted(looks like the New Revised English Version) some interesting questions arise:

King James Ver

[1]And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Young's Literal Translation

And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[3] And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
[5] And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
[6] And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
[7] And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

and Finally the Translation you Quoted


1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives, whomsoever they chose. 3 And the LORD said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh; therefore shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.' 4 The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

5 And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart. 7 And the LORD said: 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and creeping thing, and fowl of the air; for it repenteth Me that I have made them.



Who were the sons of God (or should it be god)? Here I would have to say that I agree with those who interpret the phrase to be the fallen angles including Satan himself. This same reference is used in Job to the host that came before God as a description of angelic beings.

As a believer in Jesus being the "Only begotten Son" and from the Hebrew used I am even more convinced that this is a reference to angelic beings.

However, I do not believe the sons of God to be the Nephilim. If you look at verse 4 it says that the Nephilim(in your version) or the Giants(in the KJV), were in the world in that day and after that time. This is a statement that can stand on its own but happens to surround the "Oh-Bye-The-Way" comment containing the fact that the sons of God were having children with human wives that they chose or "stole".

These Nephilim were "People of Renown" where renown is phrased in a positive way as in they did "Great" things like David did "Great" things meaning Holy things... Not something God would have said about Satan and his crew.

What is most clear is that somehow Statan and demonic seed infiltrated the human race and because of this, humans, because they were "Flesh", were to be restricted to 120 years of life and the destruction would wipe out all of the earthly creations(those that are spoken into creation at the beginning of Genesis, NOT those creations that existed before The Creation....Possibly the Nephilim and sons of God).

Here are some other questions that arise from this discussion:

1. Was Caanan home to the Nephilim/Giants and were they at the time of Exodus then bad or just perceived as such due to their size?

2. Was Goliath a Nephilim/Giant or was he just an unusually large man for that time?

3. Do Nephilim and sons of God still roam the earth and do the sons of God still take humans for there wife or did God restrict them after the flood to a purely spiritual existence? If so where is the Biblical evidence for this?

4.....

Great Discussion topic. Thanks for bringing it up... And please overlook my grammar and spelling...

 

[Quest4Truth]

The Genesis account is quite specific to say that all flesh was destroyed in the Flood except for those who were in the ark. And I venture to say that there were no giants in the ark.

Does this mean that all God's creations are "Flesh"?

Not at all!!!

There are many creations that may appear to be "Flesh" but are spiritual or of a nature we do not understand, or have lost understanding of. What of the Cherubim and Seraphim how were there forms understood and do they not look like flesh while being of a spritual nature?

 

[Blessed2003]

Does this mean that all God's creations are "Flesh"?

Not at all!!!

There are many creations that may appear to be "Flesh" but are spiritual or of a nature we do not understand, or have lost understanding of. What of the Cherubim and Seraphim how were there forms understood and do they not look like flesh while being of a spritual nature?

 

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings,

Does this mean that all God's creations are "Flesh"?

Not at all!!!

There are many creations that may appear to be "Flesh" but are spiritual or of a nature we do not understand, or have lost understanding of. What of the Cherubim and Seraphim how were there forms understood and do they not look like flesh while being of a spritual nature?

Pending your reference source the explanations could vary to slight degree. Which is great preamble to disclaim that: what follows is mostly from memory...

Man, being mortal, is made from clay. Specifically red clay (adam/odom). Man is created of the earth (eretz) while the Seraphim were, if memory serves, created from light which is probably equivalent to smokeless fire*.

Drawing a blank on the cherubim at the moment.

What the various kinds of beings are created from/of is, I believe, also mentioned in the Koran. *The Djinn(?) were created from smokeless fire. Iblis (Koranic equivalent of Satan) would not bow down before Adam because he deemed him to be created from an inferior substance, namely clay/earth.

However this doesn't really address the issue of the Nephalim/Rephaim or the Anakim. Who were. . . wow, drawing a blank again.

I know, mythologically, the are sometimes considered the rough equivalent of the Anunnaki/Igigi (the latter of whom are the equivalent of the Grigori) . . . Who would be the Mighty Man/Iyr (Watcher) of the OT. . .

I'm wanting to say they were physical beings. Not 100% about that, though. I'll have to see if I can't scrounge up my old text files about this to refresh my memory.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius

 

[roborl]

Not really sure how far this topic can go; as the truth is we don't know.

The suggestion is in Gen 6:4 that the Flood didn't wipe them out.
"the Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterwards..."

And we see them mentioned,as already noted in later parts of the Old Testament. Whether or not they are around today i'm not sure.

The suggestion that Satan was part of this crew doesn't seem to fit with his casting out of heaven (Isa 14: 12-17 & Eze 28: 13-19)

I think it's worth noting, having seen the discusion move on to general talk on what's a spirtual being, that we are spirtual beings mearly having a physical existence. Just as Jesus Christ did.

---------------
Bob

 

[Quest4Truth]

Are we spiritual beings or are we beings that have souls?

The Bible is very clear that animals have spirits but I was always read and been taught that we have Souls... something entirely different. We were created and "Life" was breathed into us. G_d created animals but he did not "Breathe" "Life" into them.

So... Is there a difference and if so then can a creature be purely spirit but take on the form of a human as we know and understand form(a logical pattern of atoms that has substance and function)?

This is a great discussion because it goes to the root of why it is so hard for scientifically trained people to come to a Saving Knowledge of God through his Son Jesus.

 

[Kester Pelagius]

The suggestion is in Gen 6:4 that the Flood didn't wipe them out.
"the Nephilim were on the earth in those days - and also afterwards..."

And we see them mentioned,as already noted in later parts of the Old Testament. Whether or not they are around today i'm not sure.

The suggestion that Satan was part of this crew doesn't seem to fit with his casting out of heaven (Isa 14: 12-17 & Eze 28: 13-19)

To the first part.. It depends on how one interprets the passage. Viz, with Strong's reference #s in "()":

Genesis 6:4 There were giants (05303) in the earth (0776) in those days; and also after that, when the sons (01121) of God (0430) came in unto the daughters (01323) of men (0120), and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men (01368) which were of old (05769), men (0582) of renown (08034).

One possible alternate reading could be:

Nephilim were in eretz (the land) during that time; following after them came the ben-Elohim [sons of God] who fell upon bath-Adam [daughters of man], these same who did beget the gibbor (mighty men) which were as those from Olam, the men (enosh) of Shem.

As to the second part concerning "Satan ", this association probably derives largely from para-biblical and extra-canonical literature, such as 1 Enoch.

 

[nephilimiyr]

This is Appendix 25 from the Companion Bible;
Clicking onto appendix 23 you'll find helpful also

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] The progeny of the fallen angels with the daughters of Adam (see notes on Genesis 6, and Appendix 23 are called in Genesis 6, N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1] e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]-phil´-im, which means fallen ones (from naphal, to fall). What these beings were can be gathered only from Scripture. They were evidently great in size, as well as great in wickedness. They were superhuman, abnormal beings; and their destruction was necessary for the preservation of the human race, and for the faithfulness of Jehovah's Word (Genesis 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]15[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
This was why the Flood was brouhgt "upon the world of the ungodly" ([/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]2[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]Peter 2:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]) as prophesied by Enoch (Jude [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]14[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
But we read of the N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim again in Numbers 13:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]33[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] : "there we saw the N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim, the sons of Anak, which come of the N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim". How, it may be asked, could this be, if they were all destroyed in the Flood ? The answer is contained in Genesis 6:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]4[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], where we read: "There were N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim in the earth in those days (that is to say, in the days of Noah); and also AFTER THAT, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became [the] mighty men (Hebrew gibbor, the heroes) which were of old, men of renown" (literally, men of the name, that is to say, who got a name and were renowned for their ungodliness).
So that "after that", that is to say, after the Flood, there was a second irruption of these fallen angels, evidently smaller in number and more limited in area, for they were for the most part confined to Canaan, and were in fact known as "the nations of Canaan". It was for the destruction of these, that the sword of Israel was necessary, as the Flood had been before.
As to the date of this second irruption, it was evidently soon after it became known that the seed was to come through Abraham; for, when he came out from Haran (Genesis 12:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]6[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]) and entered Canaan, the significant fact is stated: "The Canaanite was then (that is to say, already) in the land." And in Genesis 14:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] they were already known as "Rephaim" and "Emim", and had established themselves as Ashteroth Karnaim and Shaveh Kiriathaim.
In chapter 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]18-21[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] they are enumerated and named among Canaanite Peoples: "Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Girga*****s, and the Jebusites" (Genesis 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]19-21[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; compare Exodus 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]8,17[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 23:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]23[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Deuteronomy 7; 20:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]17[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Joshua 12:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]8[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
These were to be cut off, and driven out, and utterly destroyed (Deuteronomy 20:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]17[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Joshua 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]10[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]). But Israel failed in this (Joshua 13:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]13[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]63[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 16:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]10[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 17:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]18[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Judges 1:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]19,20,28,29,30-36[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 2:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]1-5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]1-7[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]); and we know not how many got away to other countries to escape the general destruction. If this were recognized it would go far to solve many problems connected with Anthropology.
As to their other names, they were called Anakim, from one Anak which came of the N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim (Numbers 13:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]22,33[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]), and R[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim, from Rapha, another notable one among them.
From Deuteronomy 2:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]10[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], they were known by some as Emim, and Horim, and Zamzummim (verse [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]20,21[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]) and Avim, etc. [/size][/font]
[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1][/size][/font]

[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]

[/size][/font]

 

[nephilimiyr]

Cont...



As R[font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim they were well known, and are often mentioned: but, unfortunately, instead of this, their proper name, being preserved, it is variously translated as "dead", "deceased", or "giants". These R[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim are to have no resurrection. This fact is stated in Isaiah 26:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]14[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] (where the proper name is rendered "deceased", and verse [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]19[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], where it is rendered "the dead").
It is rendered "dead" seven times (Job 26:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Psalm 88:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]10[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Proverbs 2:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]18[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 9:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]18[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 21:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]16[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Isaiah 14:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]8[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 26:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]19[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
It is rendered "deceased" in Isaiah 26:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]14[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1].
It is retained as proper name "R[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim" ten times (two being in the margin). Genesis 14:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]20[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Joshua 12:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]15[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] (margin). [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]2[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]Samuel 5:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]18,22[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 23:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]13[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. [/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]1[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]Chronicles 11:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]15[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 14:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]9[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 20:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]4[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1] (margin). Isaiah 17:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1].
In all other places it is rendered "giants" , Genesis 6:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]4[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], Numbers 23:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]33[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], where it is N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim; and Job 16:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]14[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1], where it is gibbor (Appendix 14. iv).
By reading all these passages the Bible student may know all that can be known about these beings.
It is certain that the second irruption took place before Genesis 14, for there the R[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim were mixed up with the five nations or peoples, which included Sodom and Gomorrha, and were defeated by the four kings under Chedorlaomer. Their principal locality was evidently "Ashtaroth Karnaim"; while the Emim were in the plain of Kiriathaim (Genesis 14:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]5[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
Anak was a noted descendant of the N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim; and Rapha was another, giving their names respectively to different clans. Anak's father was Arba, the original builder of Hebron (Genesis 35:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]27[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. Joshau 15:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]13[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 21:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]11[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]); and this Palestine branch of the Anakim was not called Abrahim after him, but Anakim after Anak. They were great, mighty, and tall (Deuteronomy 2:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]10,11,21,22,23[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]; 9:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]2[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]), evidently inspiring the ten spies with great fear (Numbers 12:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]33[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]). Og king of Bashan is described in Deuteronomy 3:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]11[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]).
Their strength is seen in "the giant cities of Bashan" to-day; and we know not how far they may have been utilized by Egypt in the construction of buildings, which is still an unsolved problem.
Arba was rebuilt by the Khabiri or confederates seven years before Zoan was built by Egyptian Pharoahs of the nineteenth dynasty. See note on Numbers 13:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]22[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1].
If these N[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]philim, and their branch of R[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=-1]e[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]phaim, were associated with Egypt, we have an explanation of the problem which has for ages perplexed all engineers, as to how those huge stones and monuments were brought together. Why not in Egypt as well as in "the giant cities of Bashan" which exist, as such, to this day?
Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Genesis 6:[/size][/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman]4[/font][font=Aldine,Kuenst,Clarendon,Times New Roman][size=+1]. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.
Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Comogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorded in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.[/size][/font]

 

[Kester Pelagius]

Greetings,

Moreover, we have in these mighty men, the "men of renown," the explanation of the origin of the Greek mythology. That mythology was no mere invention of the human brain, but it grew out of the traditions, and memories, and legends of the doings of that mighty race of beings; and was gradually evolved out of the "heroes" of Genesis 6:4. The fact that they were supernatural in their origin formed an easy step to their being regarded as the demi-gods of the Greeks.

There's a relevant thread over here that touches on some of this. I've linked to a earlier post, to get some context of what is being discussed.

That said, this is interesting on many levels. 1) It is giving historical provenance to the Biblical text, and thus; 2) Saying all other works are derivative, if not blatant paraphrases of the Biblical text, and; 3) Attempts to do this by saying Greek myth is derivative, therefore all other myths must be derivative as well.*

Certainly Greco-Roman mythology oftens seem to be something of a hodge-podge of myths cobbled together from various cultures, not all of them Hellenic. However what about the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh?

Most scholars seem to agree these texts are probably amongt the oldest surivivng texts extant.

Thus the Babylonian "Creation Tablets", the Egyptian "Book of the dead", the Greek mythology, and heathen Comogonies, which by some are set on an equality with Scripture, or by others adduced in support of it, are all the corruption and perversion of primitive truths, distorded in proportion as their origin was forgotten, and their memories faded away.

Odd statement, but ok I'll run with it.

As to the "Book of the Dead" it mentions a group of beings/persons called the "Watchers". On the surface these would seem to be directly contemporaneous with the Biblical "Watcher" form Daniel and the para-Biblical Watchers (Grigori) found in certain pseudepigrapha.

However might there not exist another possiblity?

Aside from writting of all texts as derivative of some mystical "Q"-ala Star Trek, not referring the postulated "Q" source document for Genesis, attempting to be humorously facetious- source. What if these similarities are proof of a larger more profound fact, namely that these are histories, much like our own modern text books are histories, written from different perspectives?

Now, if that is a possiblity, then might we not uncover the "truth" by making a list of parallels between these documents?

Just a thought.


Kind Regards,

Kester Pelagius


(*)I mention this only because some may say this is a circular arguement. Still, it is an interesting question. Alas the question of which/what text should be given the greater provenence is a can of ugly wriggling worms unto itself.

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hi Kester!

I'm not sure if I want to get into all of this right now but I think you'll find this old thread very interesting. It's about the divine council in the Bible put into context with other ancient religions.

http://www.christianforums.com/t85124