questions about the mormans

[kidsagainstkows]

so the first fairly obvious question is 'are Mormons Christians?'. all Mormons who i know have said that they are a denomination, however many Christians claim that they are a different religion or cult all together.

most of my other questions would regard the origins of Mormonism such as,

does the fact that Joseph Smith jr. was a convicted con man hurt the religion in any way

does the fact that he tricked girls into marrying him by saying that her parents eternal lives were in peril if she did not.

does it bother you that if Joseph Smith actually found the book of mormon in gold plates that it would weigh about two tons. and that would be very hard to find.

when a person speaks "off the cuff" many times they use filler words such as "like", "um", or in the case of my old boy scout master "and stuff like that". that said, does it lower the book of mormon's credibility that that book uses the phrase "it came to pass" thousands of times in a relatively short text.

 

[Bryanfromiowa]

Mormons do not believe in the trinity they do not believe that jesus is god and that he died on the cross for our sins and that he is the only way to heaven. So despite heir name they are absolutely not christians by any definition.

 

[ebia]

so the first fairly obvious question is 'are Mormons Christians?'. all Mormons who i know have said that they are a denomination, however many Christians claim that they are a different religion or cult all together.

It's not my job to say who is or isn't a "Christian", which never was a tightly defined label in the first place. IMO Mormonism is missing some key elements of historic

most of my other questions would regard the origins of Mormonism such as,

does the fact that Joseph Smith jr. was a convicted con man hurt the religion in any way

It doesn't help it's credibility.

does the fact that he tricked girls into marrying him by saying that her parents eternal lives were in peril if she did not.

does it bother you that if Joseph Smith actually found the book of mormon in gold plates that it would weigh about two tons. and that would be very hard to find.

Mormonism looks, in many ways, to me rather too like something someone like Joseph Smith would have made up.

 

[Bot]

[FONT='Georgia','serif'][FONT='Georgia','serif']The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This post helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity's theology relating to baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ, and His Grace and Atonement.

Baptism:

Early Christian churches, practiced baptism of youth (not infants) by immersion by the father of the family. The local congregation had a lay ministry. An early Christian Church has been re-constructed at the Israel Museum, and the above can be [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']verified[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']. The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continues baptism and a lay ministry as taught by Jesus’ Apostles. Early Christians were persecuted for keeping their practices sacred, and prohibiting non-Christians from witnessing them.

The Trinity:

A literal reading of the New Testament points to God and Jesus Christ , His Son , being separate , divine beings , united in purpose. . To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane, and Who was speaking to Him and his apostles on the Mount of Transfiguration? The Nicene Creed’s definition of the Trinity was influenced by scribes translating the Greek manuscripts into Latin. The scribes embellished on a passage explaining the Trinity , which is the Catholic and Protestant belief that God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The oldest versions of the epistle of 1 John, read: "There are three that bear witness: the Spirit, the water and the blood and these three are one." Scribes later added "the Father, the Word and the Spirit," and it remained in the epistle when it was translated into English for the King James Version, according to Dr. Bart Ehrman, Chairman of the Religion Department at UNC- Chapel Hill. He no longer believes in the Nicene Trinity. . Scholars agree that Early Christians believed in an embodied God; it was neo-Platonist influences that later turned Him into a disembodied Spirit. For example, it was an emperor (Constantine) . who introduced a term, homoousious, which defined the Son as “consubstantial” (one being) with the Father. Neither term or anything like it is in the New Testament. Harper’s Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.” Furthermore, 11 of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were non-Trinitarian Christians [/FONT]http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/01/richard_price.php[FONT='Georgia','serif'] The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) views the Trinity as three separate divine beings , in accord with the earliest Greek New Testament manuscripts and the Founders.

Theosis

Divinization, narrowing the space between God and humans, was also part of Early Christian belief. [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']St.[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'] [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']Athanasius of Alexandria[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'] (Eastern Orthodox) wrote, regarding theosis, "The Son of God became man, that we might become God." Irenaeus wrote in the late 2nd Century: “we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods” Justin Martyr in mid 2nd Century said: “all men are deemed worthy of becoming ‘gods,’ and of having power to become sons of the Highest” Jerome wrote that God [/FONT]"made man for that purpose, that from men they may become gods."[FONT='Georgia','serif'] Clement of Alexandria said worthy men [/FONT]"are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior."[FONT='Georgia','serif'] Origen in reference to 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 said [/FONT]"Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God . . As, then there are many gods, but to us there is but one God the Father, and many Lords, but to us there is one Lord, Jesus Christ.” [FONT='Georgia','serif']The Gospel of Thomas (which [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']pre-dates the 4 Gospels[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'], but was considered non-canonical by the Nicene Council) quotes the Savior: "He who will drink from my mouth will become as I am: I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him," (Gospel of Thomas 50, 28-30, Nag Hammadi Library in English, J.M.Robinson, 1st ed 1977; 3rd ed. 1988) For further information on this subject, refer to [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']http://NewTestamentTempleRitual.blogspot.com[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'] The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) agrees with Early Christian church leaders regarding theosis.


The Deity of Jesus Christ

Mormons hold firmly to the deity of Christ. For members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS), Jesus is not only the Son of God but also God the Son. Evangelical pollster George Barna found in 2001 that while only 33 percent of American Catholics, Lutherans, and Methodists (28 percent of Episcopalians) agreed that Jesus was “without sin”, [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']70 percent of Mormons believe Jesus was sinless[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'].

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[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']Grace Versus Works[/FONT]
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[FONT='Georgia','serif']One Evangelical Christian author wrote of his sudden discovery that his previous beliefs about salvation were very different from those held by the early Christians: [/FONT]
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[FONT='Georgia','serif']“If there's any single doctrine that we would expect to find the faithful associates of the apostles teaching, it's the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. After all, that is the cornerstone doctrine of the Reformation. In fact, we frequently say that persons who don't hold to this doctrine aren't really Christians… [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']Our problem is that Augustine, Luther, and other Western theologians have convinced us that there's an irreconcilable conflict between salvation based on grace and salvation conditioned on works or obedience. They have used a fallacious form of argumentation known as the "false dilemma," by asserting that there are only two possibilities regarding salvation: it's either (1) a gift from God or (2) it's something we earn by our works. [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']The early Christians [and Latter-day Saints!] would have replied that a gift is no less a gift simply because it's conditioned on obedience.... [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']The early Christians believed that salvation is a gift from God but that God gives His gift to whomever He chooses. And He chooses to give it to those who love and obey him.” [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']—David W. Bercot, Will The Real Heretics Please Stand Up: A New Look at Today's Evangelical Church in the Light of Early Christianity, 3rd edition, (Tyler, Texas: Scroll Publishing Company, 1999[1989]), 57, 61–62. [/FONT]
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[FONT='Georgia','serif'] The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) agrees with the earliest Christians that grace is conditioned upon obedience to Jesus Christ’s commandments.[/FONT]
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Definition of “Christian”: .

But Mormons don’t term Catholics and Protestants “non-Christian”. They believe Christ’s atonement applies to all mankind. The dictionary definition of a Christian is “of, pertaining to, believing in, or belonging to a religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ”: All of the above denominations are followers of Christ, and consider him divine, and the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament. They all worship the one and only true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and address Him in prayer as prescribed in The Lord’s Prayer. The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) teaches that good Christians of any denomination will be able to dwell with Jesus Christ in the Eternities. They do not teach (as some denominations do) that people who don’t worship “their Jesus” are destined for Hell. It’s important to understand the difference between Reformation and Restoration when we consider who might be authentic Christians. . Early Christians had certain rituals which [/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif']defined a Christian[/FONT][FONT='Georgia','serif'] , which members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) continue today. . If members of the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) embrace early Christian theology, they are likely more “Christian” than their detractors.

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[FONT='Georgia','serif']. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .* * *[/FONT]
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· Christ-Like Lives: [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']The 2005 National Study of Youth and Religion published by UNC-Chapel Hill found that Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) youth (ages 13 to 17) were more likely to exhibit these Christian characteristics than Evangelicals (the next most observant group):[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
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[FONT='Georgia','serif']1. Attend Religious Services weekly[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']2. Importance of Religious Faith in shaping daily life – extremely important[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']3. Believes in life after death[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']4. Does NOT believe in psychics or fortune-tellers[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']5. Has taught religious education classes[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']6. Has fasted or denied something as spiritual discipline[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']7. Sabbath Observance[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']8. Shared religious faith with someone not of their faith[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']9. Family talks about God, scriptures, prayer daily[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']10. Supportiveness of church for parent in trying to raise teen (very supportive)[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']11. Church congregation has done an excellent job in helping teens better understand their own sexuality and sexual morality[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']. LDS . Evangelical[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']1. 71% . . 55%[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']2. 52 . . . 28[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']3. 76 . . . 62[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']4. 100 . . 95[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']5. 42 . . . 28[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']6. 68 . . . 22[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']7. 67 . . . 40[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']8. 72 . . . 56[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']9. 50 . . . 19[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']10 65 . . . 26[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']11 84 . . . 35[/FONT][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'][/FONT]
[FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] [/FONT]
[FONT='Georgia','serif']So what do you think the motivation is to denigrate the Mormon Church by calling it a "cult"? You would think preachers would be emulating Mormon practices (a creed to believe, a place to belong, a calling to live out, and a hope to hold onto) which were noted by Methodist Rev. Kenda Creasy Dean of the Princeton Theological Seminary, as causing Mormon teenagers to “top the charts” in Christian characteristics. [/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Supreme]

so the first fairly obvious question is 'are Mormons Christians?'. all Mormons who i know have said that they are a denomination, however many Christians claim that they are a different religion or cult all together.

I would not consider them as such, no. I mean there's Protestant heresy, and then there's Mormon heresy, which is heresy on a completely new and unseen level. Their teachings are so unorthodox, I really don't think I'd define them as Christian. However, they can define themselves however they likes, it doesn't bother me.

 

[seashale76]

so the first fairly obvious question is 'are Mormons Christians?'. all Mormons who i know have said that they are a denomination, however many Christians claim that they are a different religion or cult all together.

most of my other questions would regard the origins of Mormonism such as,

does the fact that Joseph Smith jr. was a convicted con man hurt the religion in any way

does the fact that he tricked girls into marrying him by saying that her parents eternal lives were in peril if she did not.

does it bother you that if Joseph Smith actually found the book of mormon in gold plates that it would weigh about two tons. and that would be very hard to find.

when a person speaks "off the cuff" many times they use filler words such as "like", "um", or in the case of my old boy scout master "and stuff like that". that said, does it lower the book of mormon's credibility that that book uses the phrase "it came to pass" thousands of times in a relatively short text.

Their faith isn't orthodox. They do not confess or profess the same faith as I do. We are not in communion with them. However, should individual LDS members start coming to Divine Liturgy and choose to become baptized into Christ, that's a different matter altogether.

 

[ephraimanesti]

MY FRIENDS,

The best and widest definition of what a Christian is can be found in the NICENE CREED which reads:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

The Mormons do not subscribe to this Creed--ergo, they are not defineable as "christian."

That being said, i believe that there are many many people within The Church of Latter Day Saints who are God-fearing and are actively and lovingly seeking God's Face. They have indeed been led astray by false prophets--"wolves in lambs' clothing" for sure--but they are God's children for all that, and i firmly believe that God will deliver them from their doctrinal errors--(incidentally, no one has ever been saved by doctrines!)--and we will meet many of them later on in the Kingdom.

ABBA'S BRAT,
ephraim

 

[Bryanfromiowa]

Faith in Jesus Christ and repentance prepare you for baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Jesus Christ taught that everyone must be baptized of water and of the Spirit for the forgiveness of sins. Through baptism by one who holds God’s priesthood authority and through receiving the Holy Ghost, you will be spiritually reborn. After baptism, God promises to give you the gift of the Holy Ghost, who will guide, comfort, and help you know and recognize truth

from this web site Jesus Christ: Our Savior

everyone must be baptized of water and of the Spirit for the forgiveness of sins. Through baptism by one who holds God’s priesthood authority and through receiving the Holy Ghost, you will be spiritually reborn

the above passage make mormons not christian jesus died on the cross for our sins and believing in him and accepting christ as lord of our lives is the only way to eternal life.

 

[Van]

If a "Christian" is someone who self professes to be a Christian, then that sets the bar so low as to allow anyone with any sort of beliefs a "Christian." Mormons are certainly "Christian" by that definition.

Denominations that accept trinity doctrine generally hold that groups that reject the trinity are not Christian. So if we are to allow the majority to judge the minority, then Mormons are not Christian.

As for me and my house, I believe Jesus Christ was God Almighty in the flesh, and therefore to not believe in God the Son is to reject the gospel of Christ. I think to be a Christian, a person must believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Christ. One without the other is, in my opinion, another gospel.

 

[Sketcher]

does the fact that Joseph Smith jr. was a convicted con man hurt the religion in any way

Yes.

does the fact that he tricked girls into marrying him by saying that her parents eternal lives were in peril if she did not.

Yes, that hurts it.

does it bother you that if Joseph Smith actually found the book of mormon in gold plates that it would weigh about two tons. and that would be very hard to find.

Yes.

when a person speaks "off the cuff" many times they use filler words such as "like", "um", or in the case of my old boy scout master "and stuff like that". that said, does it lower the book of mormon's credibility that that book uses the phrase "it came to pass" thousands of times in a relatively short text.

Nah, I'd rather go on matters of substance, such as the "Book of Abraham" being found to be pagan Egyptian funeral rites with nothing to do with Abraham, no evidence for the Nephites at all (even though they would have been the only iron-working civilization in South America), the fact that they have changed so many "key" doctrines over the years, their belief in Jesus and Satan being "spirit brothers" (which every good Christian will reject as blasphemous and heretical), their belief that women can only get to the highest level of Heaven if they ride on their Mormon husband's coattails, their belief that there are many "mini-gods" for different planets who evolved from good people rather than strictly one God over all creation, and so forth.

 

[salida]

No, they arn't christians concerning basic concepts. I'm not their judge but they don't believe in the Jesus of the Bible. They believe in godhood and that you can become a god-weird stuff.

 

[salida]

Visit: www.equip.org -christian research institute and www.christiananswers.com -they get in detail concerning the mormon cult.