Questions about the cross

[heart of peace]

On another message board these questions came up and I'm interested in discussing it here.

The person wanted to know if there is significance in the actual way Jesus died (Did it have to be a cross or could it have been any other method? If it had to be the cross, why?). She also wanted to know what specific sacrifice (if any) Jesus was fulfilling, and did Passover foreshadow Jesus' death; if so, was God showing Israel how it would happen or must happen?

 

[Zacharias]

On another message board these questions came up and I'm interested in discussing it here.

The person wanted to know if there is significance in the actual way Jesus died (Did it have to be a cross or could it have been any other method? If it had to be the cross, why?). She also wanted to know what specific sacrifice (if any) Jesus was fulfilling, and did Passover foreshadow Jesus' death; if so, was God showing Israel how it would happen or must happen?

St Athanasius of Alexandria explains why it had to be a cross really well: Athanasius: Select Works and Letters | Why the Cross, of all deaths? It's not that long to read. Hopefully this is helpful.

Salaam leekum!

 

[ProScribe]

Alot of answers are available by reading the Holy Scriptures.

 

[Dorothea]

On another message board these questions came up and I'm interested in discussing it here.

The person wanted to know if there is significance in the actual way Jesus died (Did it have to be a cross or could it have been any other method? If it had to be the cross, why?).

First off, the Tree of Life is the Cross - and it started with the Tree of Good and Evil in the Garden, then, when the Fall came about, the Tree was cursed, so to speak.

Fr. David answers this, and it's awesome:

"Right from the beginning, that expression: 'My God, My God...' is not an expression of despair. That psalm, if you read it all the way through, is continually expressing confidence and trust in God, even in the midst of the agony of forsakenness and death." Fr. David finishes reading the psalm.

"He is not forsaken. The depth of His suffering - He who is Life is being united with death. That He who is goodness is being identified with sin, that He is the blessing is now the cursed. 'The Law of Moses said cursed is anyone who hangs on the tree.' In fact, that is why the Jewish authorities wanted Him to be handed over to the gentiles to be put to death, so that He would be put to death by hanging on the tree because one who's hung on the tree is cursed by God. Christ descended into death to break the power of death."

 

[choirfiend]

The Passover (escape from Egypt) was certainly a preshadowing, as many things were in the OT. During it, the Hebrews escaped from slavery and death into freedom and life by the breaking of the barrier of the red sea by Moses, who held up outstretched hands over it.

In Christ's death and resurrection, we are lead from death and slavery to sin into eternal life and freedom by the breaking of the barrier between Man and God by Christ, who held out outstretched arms upon the cross. It is also said that He died with His arms out embracing all Mankind.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Fr Thomas Hopko says that to truly love someone, you identify them even when they are at their lowest level. to a first century Jew, there is nothing lower than being hung on a tree by the Gentile Romans.

 

[Knee V]

Fr Thomas Hopko says that to truly love someone, you identify them even when they are at their lowest level. to a first century Jew, there is nothing lower than being hung on a tree by the Gentile Romans.

To echo that, the crucifixion demonstrates the condition of our hearts - we killed Him in the most shameful way that we knew how.

 

[heart of peace]

Thanks for the responses so far. The link to St. Athanasius' words was very informative!

 

[SoulFoodEater]

Fr Thomas Hopko has an audiotalk on AncientFaith speaking about this subject.

Fr. Tom takes an extensive look at the death of Christ and the juridical assumptions that have been taught largely in the West. This talk was given in March 2009 at Holy Ascension Orthodox Church in Charleston, SC.

http://ancientfaith.com/specials/hopko_lectures/understanding_the_cross_of_christ

 

[Zacharias]

Thanks for the responses so far. The link to St. Athanasius' words was very informative!

I glad that it was helpful. Glory to God!

 

[buzuxi02]

Just to add crucifixion was the most humiliating terrifying way to die. It shows how God condescended first to become incarnate man, then further be humiliated by crucifixion. To get graphic for a moment just imagine; these were public executions. You were stripped completely naked. In the course of trying to pull yourself up as you were afixed to the cross and not asphyxiate, all your bodily functions give away. You urinate and defecate on yourself, your lips crack your nose starts running. You get the picture simply not a pretty sight.

 

[heart of peace]

So here's the next question. The person is wondering since God exists outside of time and since the cross is the ultimate sacrifice, then the cross had already happened (not sure what the person is trying to get at with this comment??) and so God's plan was set into motion before He gave the words to the Israelites about 'cursed is he that hangs on the cross'. So, in essence she is saying that the verses in Deuteronomy I mentioned are actually foreshadowing what has already been decided (?). Are there any verses in Scripture that support the act on the Cross having been accomplished in the beginning?

 

[Zacharias]

Are there any verses in Scripture that support the act on the Cross having been accomplished in the beginning?

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I found this explanation of the previously mentioned verse:

St. John again leaves temporality behind in the proclamation: “All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev. 13:8). Christ is most surely slain on the Cross within history, and yet St. John identifies that Christ with the Lamb “slain from the foundation of the world.” Christ’s Pascha is both “historical” and yet cosmic, transcending time.

Source: St. Anne Orthodox Church - Home


Salaam leekum!

 

[Monica child of God 1]

So here's the next question. The person is wondering since God exists outside of time and since the cross is the ultimate sacrifice, then the cross had already happened (not sure what the person is trying to get at with this comment??) and so God's plan was set into motion before He gave the words to the Israelites about 'cursed is he that hangs on the cross'. So, in essence she is saying that the verses in Deuteronomy I mentioned are actually foreshadowing what has already been decided (?). Are there any verses in Scripture that support the act on the Cross having been accomplished in the beginning?

The lamb from the foundation of the world:

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world. --Revelation 13:8


I also wanted to add that Christ death on the cross was forshadowed by the bronze serpent on a pole that Moses held up to the people so that they could be healed:


The LORD said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived. --Numbers 21:8-10



No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” --John 3:13-15

M.

 

[ArmyMatt]

So, in essence she is saying that the verses in Deuteronomy I mentioned are actually foreshadowing what has already been decided (?). Are there any verses in Scripture that support the act on the Cross having been accomplished in the beginning?

well yes. God, being outside of time, knew before He created anything when and how He would take flesh, and how He would redeem the world.

one example is Isaac carrying the wood of his own sacrifice at Abraham's hand, on Mt Moriah (the same mountain as Calvary), and Abraham saying that God will provide the lamb for sacrifice, but God offers a ram first. the lamb would be His Son many years later.

 

[ebyown]

the cross is the expression of the foundations of YAH's throne and Rulership which are Justice and Righteousness.

Psalm 89:14 Righteousness and justice are the foundation
of Your throne. Mercy and truth go before Your Face.

the cross is a picture of His Righteousness (the pole planted in the ground) and His Justice for His creation (the cross member). Isaiah portays a picture of it.

Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus says the 'Adonay YHVH (H3069), “Behold, I lay in Zion for a Foundation a Stone, a tried Stone, a precious Cornerstone of a sure Foundation. He who believes shall not act hastily. 28:17 I will make justice the measuring line, and righteousness the plumb line. The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters will overflow the hiding place. 28:18 Your covenant with death shall be annulled, and your agreement with Sheol shall not stand. When the overflowing scourge passes through, then you will be trampled down by it.

it is described in Romans.

Romans 3:21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of YAH has been revealed, being testified by the Torah and the Prophets; 3:22 even the righteousness of YAH through faith in YAHSHUA the Messiah to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of YAH; 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Messiah YAHSHUA; 3:25 Whom YAH set forth to be an atoning Sacrifice through faith in His blood, for a demonstration of His righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in YAH’s forbearance; 3:26 to demonstrate His righteousness at this present time; that He might Himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in YAHSHUA.