light upon light
Baha'i
Me too. A return in the "spirit and power of Elijah", not the same literal person and body.
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I believe that John the Baptist was the return of Elijah.
Let's look at it this way. The people of Israel were expecting the Messiah (the Christ). They thought He would be a military leader and a king who would lead them to victory over the Romans. They expected him to be named "Emmanuel" and to come from an unknown place.
When a humble Carpenter named Yeshua came to them from Nazareth who was, to outward appearances, devoid of power, who did not rule, did not have soldiers and did not overthrow the Romans militarily, some Jewish leaders deemed him a false claimant, and had him crucified by the Roman authorities.
God does not appear to us according to our desires and expectations.
Was John the Baptist the return of Elijah?
Sorry, a yes or no to what?
I don't think it is inappropriate, but that's not what I think most references to Judgement Day are all about. Do you know how in John's Gospel Jesus trial the Judgement is seen as being present? For a Baha'i the Judgement Day refers to any day where the Manifestation appears. Whether we accept or reject him, is our Judgement.
I agree, I just don't think that necessarily coincides with what most Christians came to believe about him afterwards.
Yep. What we see there is pretty much the same thing we see in prophecies and beliefs regarding the Return of Elijah. The Jews believed Elijah would return because they believed he had never died. Yet, Jesus asserts that John the Baptist was Elijah notwithstanding the fact that John the Baptist comes into this world the usual way, through a woman.
Bottom line: It is as Reinhold Niebuhr put it: "The Messiah who comes is never the one expected"
If this is corruption then Christians are masters of it! There is nothing I have done in interpreting the Gospels that the New Testament doesn't do in connection with the Tanakh. Right, Loammi and Danny?
We don't uphold the Nicean Creed if that's what you mean. But then it isn't in the Bible.
And Baha'u'llah is not literally Jesus. But just as John fulfills the prophecies related to Elijah's return, so Baha'u'llah fulfills prophecies related to Christ's return.
Please cite them.
Are the Son and the Father the same, or different?
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." - Mark 13:32
I don't think you and I actually disagree at all about the divinity of Christ. I think we just have different ideas of what it means to "be God".
The Jews of that time were expecting a literal return of Elijah, perhaps even in a fiery Chariot come down from the sky.
Now many Christians are waiting on a literal return of Jesus of Nazareth, flying down from the sky and shooting fire out of His eyes. Even though they were told to "watch" for His return and that He would come "like a thief in the night".
The book of Revelations must be understood in terms of symbolism and metaphor, just as the Old Testament promises of the Messiah conquering all the enemies of Israel needed to be understood symbolically in order to recognize Jesus as the promised Redeemer.
Jesus explains that here:
"For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist...
And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, who was prophecied. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." - Matthew 11:11-15
Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand that prophecies cannot all be taken literally.
That when we are told that Christ will return "in the clouds", with fire coming from His eyes, and feet of brass, those have symbolic meanings, not to be taken literally.
Clouds represent that which blocks and obscures the Sun of truth so we are veiled from it. Fire from the eyes means a powerful vision of truth that burns away superstitions and false beliefs. Feet of brass means feet that are impervious to turning away from the path of hardship which God will destine for Him.
Whether you believe Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount.
So then were talking apples and oranges. You can think whatever you want about Judgement Day, but Christian theology has a particular idea about it.
I only ask that you dont misappropriate Christian beliefs
Then how do you interpret the resurrection?
How do you interpret the Paraclete?
But that God may contradict Himself (as with Muhammad, Bahaullah, Joseph Smith, et al.) is not.
I already said no.
Some of the disciples weren’t sure who he was until near his death, some until after his resurrection, but all had decided within their lifetimes,
How does Baha'u'llah (which BTW means "the Glory of the Father") contradict Jesus?
O POPE! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained… He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him ..
Did somebody see Baha'ullah on clouds.
"When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things verily I am God!"16
A has a relationship to B . But , A is not B.That is simple logic.
A can say he represents B. But A cannot say he became B.
If Jesus's words(as recorded in gospels and others) are to be believed Baha'ullah is an impostor. No more divine messages from anybody until end of the world is near.
I have no reason to doubt that he did.
I realize that. But I'm more interested in what Christ taught not what Christian theology says about it.
Were not appropriating Christian beliefs, but you don't get a monopoly over Christ, sorry.
While Paul refers to the twelve and the five hundred witnessing the resurrected Jesus (the women apparently being left out) Paul's own account is really the only eyewitness account we have in the Bible. Paul makes a clear distinction between spiritual bodies and physical bodies which leaves me wondering just how 'physical' the resurrection was. But I do think there were clearly resurrection appearances. I think what I believe about the resurrected Christ is consistent with what Paul says in 1 Corinthians.
I believe it is a reference to God's continuing revelation.
How does Baha'u'llah (which BTW means "the Glory of the Father") contradict Jesus?
Jesus said yes:
"And if ye will receive it, this [ie: John the Baptist] is Elijah, who was prophecied to come." - Matthew 11:14
Can you cite book, chapter and verse?
If I want to argue something based on the Bible, I do that.
If Jesus's words(as recorded in gospels and others) are to be believed Baha'ullah is an impostor. No more divine messages from anybody until end of the world is near.
I really don't know what to be made of this :
Apparently Baha'ullah wrote to Pope pius 1x
TBut that God may contradict Himself (as with Muhammad, Bahaullah, Joseph Smith, et al.) is not.
I already said no.
You dont believe Jesus is the only Son of God.
What prophecies did Bahaullah fulfill?
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