Questions about racism.

[Shadowprophet]

Before this begins. I need to explain this thread. This is a thread concerning some questions about racism. This is a thread of intellectual debate and the first person that shows to support ignorance or racism will come to quickly regret their comments. I do not support racism. What I do support is equality between all people. I have some questions.. Why is Black pride and Black power not only an okay thing, It's politically correct and supported. But the very second a person of White origin proclaims to be proud to be white, they are a racist bigot? isn't this overt racism? is that not a form of oppression? Why is it that another race may call white people, honkeys and crackers on tv, in person and on all forms of media and it's not only okay. but people cheer at this? yet if a white person says the N word not only are they a bigot, they lose their jobs, homes and sometimes their families.. because they are a bigot? Is this not some form of social oppression that is unjustly inflicted on to one race of people? while others have no such rules as these?

Don't pretend this subject does not exist. That is turning a blind eye to reality. and don't accuse me of supporting racism when I fully support racial equality., I just want an intelligent discussion on why I am not allowed to be proud that I am white? I want to know why I have to pretend to be ashamed that I am white and allow other races to call me a honkey and a cracker, and I have to smile when they do? This is not equality. And I speak on behalf of full racial equality, because none of us are any different at all. and I'm sick of people telling me we are..

 

[Shadowprophet]

I originally posted this topic and removed it, for fear that people would not understand it, or take it as an offence, some of the understanding and intelligent members of the community have shown me that I was mistaken. This truly is a place full of people that are both intelligent and mature enough to handle this topic with grace.


Thank you ScottA and Blessedbeyondbelief.

 

[ScottA]

Before this begins. I need to explain this thread. This is a thread concerning some questions about racism. This is a thread of intellectual debate and the first person that shows to support ignorance or racism will come to quickly regret their comments. I do not support racism. What I do support is equality between all people. I have some questions.. Why is Black pride and Black power not only an okay thing, It's politically correct and supported. But the very second a person of White origin proclaims to be proud to be white, they are a racist bigot? isn't this overt racism? is that not a form of oppression? Why is it that another race may call white people, honkeys and crackers on tv, in person and on all forms of media and it's not only okay. but people cheer at this? yet if a white person says the N word not only are they a bigot, they lose their jobs, homes and sometimes their families.. because they are a bigot? Is this not some form of social oppression that is unjustly inflicted on to one race of people? while others have no such rules as these?

Don't pretend this subject does not exist. That is turning a blind eye to reality. and don't accuse me of supporting racism when I fully support racial equality., I just want an intelligent discussion on why I am not allowed to be proud that I am white? I wan't to know why I have to pretend to be ashamed that I am white and allow other races to call me a honkey and a cracker, and I have to smile when they do? This is not equality. And I speak on behalf of full racial equality, because none of us are any different at all. and I'm sick of people telling me we are..

All good points...and no, it ain't right.

The reason...is not that we people go around doing harm to those of other groups. No, the harm comes well after that, after things heat up. When I was growing up, and I suspect many of us have experienced the same innocence as children...but our differences were never anything but fun - we poked fun at each other - it was just fun: A whop and mexican would poke fun at their pollock friend one day, and the next day the pollock and the mexican would poke fun at the whop. But then...one day, it all changed. Those fun and harmless acts were "blamed" for the injustices of bitter adults...things that were nobody's fault, just life.

 

[Shadowprophet]

Thank you for the reply, I was just so doubtful about the subject because
racism is such a sensitive topic. One could so easily flip the tables and turn it into something else. Thank you Scott. You are more couragious then me. Thank you for seeing I was posting an intellictual debate. Some people would not have.

 

[blessedbeyondbelief]

I think this is a great topic. Its authentic questions and I believe you are coming from a sincere place of seeking understanding.

There have been mass atrocities and injustices committed against 'minorities' in America and abroad. Rapes, murders, enslavement, segregation, systematic prejudice, etc...The remnants of these events still permeate society today. In America, these atrocities were largely committed by Caucasians that used those words which have been permanently linked with those actions and the ideologies that fueled them. The terms you mention that are used against Caucasians were created in a futile attempt to retaliate at the ideas and actions that have harmed and oppressed minorities. These are empty and unsubstantial words because there was no large scale actions to link it to. Is it right to call you these things? No, they perpetuate this vicious racial conflict still embedded in this countries core. But their is a level of sensitivity expected from the historically oppressed to oppressors because of the suffering their ancestors received. It wasn't your fault, you had nothing to do with it most likely, but history represents where people come from and you (all of us) represent those same groups we identify from history, today.
There is nothing wrong with being proud to be white, as there is nothing wrong with being proudly black, etc.. But a historical (and unfortunately present day) context links white pride with white supremacy ( skin heads, kkk, ) and other extreme hate groups that have to attack other groups to boost their pride. So pretty much the old folks ruined it for the rest of their descendants, as we know it so far.....

I wish you didnt delete all you wrote cus I wanted to address everything you initially asked. Please ask any more questions if you have any. No point in not sharing our thoughts when they affect how we operate and treat each other. We always use greater understanding.

 

[ScottA]

So pretty much the old folks ruined it for the rest of their descendants, as we know it so far.....

That is an interesting thought, and not to contradict, but I think it is worthy of discussion.

I think that is perhaps the wrong way to look at history. In other words, when future generations are commenting on our current behavior, hopefully they will not look at our faults and say the same thing. And therefore, perhaps we should give the same consideration when looking at previous generations. Just as we would hope to be given the benefit of the doubt and accredited for "doing the best that we could", perhaps we should not be looking for the "bad guy" in history, anymore than we should now in our own generation.

So...are most of us doing the best that we can? Is it understandable that people have hard feelings about the rub of social tensions and the issues we still need to work on? Should we extend some understanding? Of course. Should we then, consider that we are no better people that those of previous generations, but were simply born into different circumstances and different times? Probably. Actually...Yes, I think so.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Patience and time may well fix things. I have no doubt a lot of black folk would agree with the OP on what he sees as unfair.

For now, and to simplify, it's just the way it is/has to be because of what was done in the past, and I can only hope it will run it's course and things will at least get better

 

[blessedbeyondbelief]

^^^^^ I agree.


Heres a vid that may give some insight on the outlook of some black people and other minorities:

 

[ml5363]

what about the indian who were massacred, the jews, the christians, or even the indentured slaves...i believe all races have been effected by it at one time or another...so why is the the black race still holding grudges..

 

[blessedbeyondbelief]

^^^^ Probrably because they were all given reparations/compensation atop of apologies to reconcile the relations, all except for black people. Then there are also continual systematic oppression and degradation happening today that coupled with history make their perspective less optimistic. There have been great strides made, but its gonna take alot more time since they feel their was no conscious attempt to right that wrong.

 

[ml5363]

^^^^ Probrably because they were all given reparations/compensation atop of apologies to reconcile the relations, all except for black people. Then there are also continual systematic oppression and degradation happening today that coupled with history make their perspective less optimistic. There have been great strides made, but its gonna take alot more time since they feel their was no conscious attempt to right that wrong.

how so, indians were thrown on reservations.. jews i feel still is a hush hush word..i am from the south so not sure if that matters or not.. most christians do not hold it against anyone for killing folks for wrong doings...and I being from the applachian and saw poor white trash first hand...they don't take their circumstances out of folks..that actually seem to kinda accept it and just keep going b/c that is all they know (not sure why they are perfectly content like this) thankfully I was one of the few that escaped it..sort of ..lol..

 

[StanJ]

Why is Black pride and Black power not only an okay thing, It's politically correct and supported. But the very second a person of White origin proclaims to be proud to be white, they are a racist bigot? isn't this overt racism? is that not a form of oppression? Why is it that another race may call white people, honkeys and crackers on tv, in person and on all forms of media and it's not only okay. but people cheer at this? yet if a white person says the N word not only are they a bigot, they lose their jobs, homes and sometimes their families.. because they are a bigot? Is this not some form of social oppression that is unjustly inflicted on to one race of people? while others have no such rules as these?

In North America blacks have been the most persecuted race in over 400 years if not more. I can't really think of any other identifiable race that has been as persecuted, demeaned and ostracized than the black people have. I therefore cannot condemn any form of expression that tries to elevate there equality to the same level as all other North Americans. I see signs on the news that state Black Lives Matter, and although my initial reaction is one of confirmation I can't help but feel instantly that all lives matter. However all lives are not affected as black lives are and have been. They are that way because of the discrimination that has gone on in North America for so many generations. Ad hominems are nothing compared to the actual vehemence many black's suffer, even today. Two rights never make a wrong, but indeed more wrongs are suffered by black people at the hands of white people than any other race has in history except maybe the Jews, but those were more genocidal in nature. Speaking for myself as a white person, we have nothing to complain about.

 

[Shadowprophet]

In North America blacks have been the most persecuted race in over 400 years if not more. I can't really think of any other identifiable race that has been as persecuted, demeaned and ostracized than the black people have. I therefore cannot condemn any form of expression that tries to elevate there equality to the same level as all other North Americans. I see signs on the news that state Black Lives Matter, and although my initial reaction is one of confirmation I can't help but feel instantly that all lives matter. However all lives are not affected as black lives are and have been. They are that way because of the discrimination that has gone on in North America for so many generations. Ad hominems are nothing compared to the actual vehemence many black's suffer, even today. Two rights never make a wrong, but indeed more wrongs are suffered by black people at the hands of white people than any other race has in history except maybe the Jews, but those were more genocidal in nature. Speaking for myself as a white person, we have nothing to complain about.

What? Do you truly believe there were not white slaves as well? an entire race did not enact slavery on just African Americans ,there where Irish and white slaves as well man, slaves of every race....I promote you to read up on history brother,, Slavery was a terrible time in history when the ruling class enslaved the subservient class, and it effected all races.. Everyone suffered during times of slavery, not just black people.
Check this out.. http://www.africaresource.com/rasta...es/the-forgotten-white-slaves-part-ii-nehesy/


slavery did not just happen to Black people and it's some what ignoring recorded factual history to believe it did brother.

Some of my family were slaves.. it was a time in history when money was power and who ever had money could have whatever they wanted.. there were many white people taken for slaves and wives. and this is fact, women didn't even have rights until the 19th amendment was created,, that's right a powerful and and rich enough man could ride on to someones property and just take their daughter with force.. if they had the power to take her,, she certainly didn't have any rights to object before the 19th amendment brother.. those were dark dark times..

 

[StanJ]

What? Do you truly believe there were not white slaves as well? an entire race did not enact slavery on just African Americans ,there where Irish and white slaves as well man, slaves of every race....I promote you to read up on history brother,, Slavery was a terrible time in history when the ruling class enslaved the subservient class, and it effected all races.. Everyone suffered during times of slavery, not just black people.
Check this out.. http://www.africaresource.com/rasta...es/the-forgotten-white-slaves-part-ii-nehesy/
slavery did not just happen to Black people and it's some what ignoring recorded factual history to believe it did brother.
Some of my family were slaves..

No doubt about slavery, but I wasn't addressing slavery, I was addressing the issue of what you wrote and responded to racism and Black discrimination. Unless one is a black person one can never really know the discriminatory practices of people all around you.

 

[EmmaCat]

I may sound naive, but I don't accept racism. I don't care who you are, we're all children of God and He loves us all.

I can't control what others think, feel, say, or do. But I can control ME and make the proper choices.

I choose to love. I hope that no matter who I interact with, they will see a loving, non-threatening person and see the love for God in me ... and understand that not everyone sees skin color and all that other stuff that doesn't make the person.

No one is perfect. Look what happened to the last One who was perfect. They stuck Him up on a cross and left Him to die.

WE - all of us - are why He did this.

I just wish people would look inside, draw closer to God, and understand that one simple but powerful concept.

Just my take on the whole thing.

All good things
Emmy

 

[ScottA]

Patience and time may well fix things. I have no doubt a lot of black folk would agree with the OP on what he sees as unfair.

For now, and to simplify, it's just the way it is/has to be because of what was done in the past, and I can only hope it will run it's course and things will at least get better

The problem is...it did run its course and the general population completely got over it - but now it's back because of political advantage. Those are the racists of our day - and the rest of us should not be suffering because of their abuse to us ALL. And if we don't nip it in the bud and allow it to take its course all over again...we can all just go back to civil war - which is just stupid.

 

[ScottA]

what about the indian who were massacred, the jews, the christians, or even the indentured slaves...i believe all races have been effected by it at one time or another...so why is the the black race still holding grudges..

Right on! ALL people suffer, and you are kidding yourself if you don't think so. We need to get over it - heck, we did already, now we got to do it all over again. Don't be a part of the problem. Don't enable. Love your neighbor.

 

[ScottA]

^^^^ Probrably because they were all given reparations/compensation atop of apologies to reconcile the relations, all except for black people. Then there are also continual systematic oppression and degradation happening today that coupled with history make their perspective less optimistic. There have been great strides made, but its gonna take alot more time since they feel their was no conscious attempt to right that wrong.

That's just not true. Blacks got 40 acres and a mule, Indians got territory set aside for them, etc. and so many good people have done so much. If anything the Japanese Americans got very little. And, no, it's not enough. But such is life - we move on.

But it is completely wrong to think or say that blacks have less reason to be optimistic. OM gosh - just attend any high achievement ceremony, even the Oscars - from Supreme Court Justices to sport celebrities, the full gambit - they're on top and looked up to, and loved, as much as any. We have a black president, for crying out loud! My generation did that - and "I ain't fallin' for no banana in the tailpipe!"

 

[Kenny'sID]

The problem is...it did run its course and the general population completely got over it - but now it's back because of political advantage. Those are the racists of our day - and the rest of us should not be suffering because of their abuse to us ALL. And if we don't nip it in the bud and allow it to take it course all over again...we can all just go back to civil war - which is just stupid.

I don't disagree completely but whatever disagreement a side for the moment, how would you suggest we nip it in the bud and what exactly are we going to nip? Also there are always going to be jerks in the world, black or white, they get to far out of hand and they go to jail, so what else can you really do here?

Take this fanatic activist on the new posts board who made the waitress cry, you can't even jail a situation like that, nor can we jail the Rebel [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] wielding big pick em up truck driving racist redneck...some will always abuse their rights. Christ did what he could to correct this but just at the country allows to a certain point, he/God allows free will, and until the big plan and new kingdom arrives, there will be problems. I guess I'm just looking for a balance here and not to make things worse, but maybe you have some ideas that haven't crossed my mind.

 

[Kenny'sID]

OM gosh - just attend any high achievement ceremony, even the Oscars - from Supreme Court Justices to sport celebrities, the full gambit - they're on top and looked up to, and loved, as much as any.

There may well be something below the surface there we aren't seeing. I'm not making excuses for anyone but feel there is very likely more than meets the eye there.