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Questions About Hell
- Thread starter FineLinen
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The Fox was in charge of the chicken coop. That explains why chickens went missing. The Damnationists say: "What chickens? There are no missing chickens."
"Boy's so dumb, he thinks a pigpen is something you write with!" -- Foghorn Leghorn
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LOL...Love ya brother.
Wish I was. I make my mistakes and thankfully we have our Advocate Jesus to help us through.
No, He went after His lost sheep because He wants them all to come home. But even the lost sheep get eaten by wolves, because of their foolishness.
No, He ran to Him, because He was glad He was Home. His son still asked him to forgive Him for sinning against Heaven and his family. Loved what the father said to the young man's brother who got upset. But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found
No God hasn't forgotten anything. We have.
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No one can deny that the New Testament contains a special revelation of the parental tie uniting us to God.
When we pray and say, “our Father,” these two words convey the spirit of the whole Gospel.
Now, it is not too much to assert that the view generally held is an absolute negation of all that the parental tie implies. It robs the relation of all meaning.
We have the very spirit of popular Christianity conveyed in the well-known line which tells us that we are ever in the great Taskmaster’s eye.
The great Taskmaster —note the term, for it reduces to mockery the divine Fatherhood, though that is of the very essence of Christianity.
What, for instance, shall we say of such a Father’s appeal to those who, as He knows, will never hear? To Him there is no future -all is present ; the “lost” are lost, and yet He calls them; they are, on the traditional creed, virtually damned; and He knows it, and yet invites them to come and be saved.
But all this difficulty comes from uniting two things absolutely irreconcilable -endless love and power, and yet endless evil.
If we want to retain endless sin, let us return to the God of Calvin: nowhere else shall we find solid footing. This God at least is Lord and Master. He issues no invitations, knowing them to be in fact futile. He saves all whom He wants to save. His will must prevail. His Son sheds no drop of blood in vain, All for whom He dies are in fact saved, while the rest go to the devil. All this is hard -nay, cruel; but it is at least logical, intelligible.
Contrast with this system the flabby creed of our pseudo-orthodoxy.
Long ago it was shrewdly said by an old Calvinist, “universal salvation is credible, if universal Redemption be true.” For it shocks the reason to be told of a universal Redemption, when all that is meant is an attempt at the redemption of all the race, which fails; it shocks the reason no less to be told of an unchanging love which wholly ceases the moment the last breath leaves the frail body. - Christ Triumphant-
When we pray and say, “our Father,” these two words convey the spirit of the whole Gospel.
Now, it is not too much to assert that the view generally held is an absolute negation of all that the parental tie implies. It robs the relation of all meaning.
We have the very spirit of popular Christianity conveyed in the well-known line which tells us that we are ever in the great Taskmaster’s eye.
The great Taskmaster —note the term, for it reduces to mockery the divine Fatherhood, though that is of the very essence of Christianity.
What, for instance, shall we say of such a Father’s appeal to those who, as He knows, will never hear? To Him there is no future -all is present ; the “lost” are lost, and yet He calls them; they are, on the traditional creed, virtually damned; and He knows it, and yet invites them to come and be saved.
But all this difficulty comes from uniting two things absolutely irreconcilable -endless love and power, and yet endless evil.
If we want to retain endless sin, let us return to the God of Calvin: nowhere else shall we find solid footing. This God at least is Lord and Master. He issues no invitations, knowing them to be in fact futile. He saves all whom He wants to save. His will must prevail. His Son sheds no drop of blood in vain, All for whom He dies are in fact saved, while the rest go to the devil. All this is hard -nay, cruel; but it is at least logical, intelligible.
Contrast with this system the flabby creed of our pseudo-orthodoxy.
Long ago it was shrewdly said by an old Calvinist, “universal salvation is credible, if universal Redemption be true.” For it shocks the reason to be told of a universal Redemption, when all that is meant is an attempt at the redemption of all the race, which fails; it shocks the reason no less to be told of an unchanging love which wholly ceases the moment the last breath leaves the frail body. - Christ Triumphant-
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- Jan 9, 2018
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Thanks for the video it was informative . A problem I have with these conclusions is they seem to assume that everyone loves God in the end. That Some piece Of the divine puzzle is missing for them.
If God has revealed Himself fully to someone, in as much as the person can receive Him, is it possible for them to still reject God?
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Dear Eloy: I will put the missing puzzle piece before us as clearly as possible. There is zero assuming!
"That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampsh). First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina. Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22 ; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13 . Under the earth (katacqoniwn). Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T. "
-A.T. Robertson Word Pictures-
IN/EN/ WITHIN the Name of Jesus>>>Universal homage.
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That doesn't mean universal friendship united to the Father as one as Christ is.
1 John 3:2
Beloved, we are God’s children now; what we will be has not yet been revealed. What we do know is this: when he is revealed, we will be like him, for we will see him as he is.
Is that going to be a universal experience too ?
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Dear Eloy: Universal at-one-ment is exactly what the worship by all beings in the heavens, earth, and underworld means! That wee word IN/EN demonstrates it completely. This is not just acknowledgement of the Master, it is union with the Master!
The elect/ "especially" are in a special place in Father's Heart, but make zero mistake, our God is Saviour of the all, not tis but pas, the radical all. However, even among 12 disciples there were 3 who had a special place, and 1 who leaned on the Master's bosom.
In My Father's House are many dwelling places/ abodes.
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"So MALACHI, already quoted, describes Christ as being in His saving work "like a refiner's fire." And so, echoing Deut. iv. 24-3!, we are told that "Our God is a consuming fire," i.e., God in His closest relation to us: God is love: God is spirit: but "Our God is a consuming fire" - a consuming fire, "by which the whole material substance of sin is destroyed." When, then, we read - Ps. xviii. 12-3 that "coals of fire" go before God, we think of the deeds of love which are "coals of fire" to our enemies. - Rom. xii. 20. Thus we who teach hope for all men, do not shrink from but accept, in their fullest meaning, these mysterious "fires" of Gehenna, of which Christ speaks (kindled for purification), as in a special sense the sinner's doom in the coming ages. But taught by the clearest statements of Scripture (confirmed as they are by many analogies of nature), we see in these "fires" not a denial of, but a mode of fulfilling, the promise-" Behold, I make all things new."
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter six --- bold emphasis mine
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin chapter six --- bold emphasis mine
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Dear Smithy: The Master loses no sheep. He goes till He finds them! He loses no leftover remnants of fish and bread, they are gathered up that NOTHING be lost/apollumi.
Our God loses nothing!
Your right, He never misses out on anything. Nor does He lose.
We do, by rejecting His grace and mercy. Through our pride, selfishness and lustful desires.
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Your god, may do that.
The true God, Jehovah, Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. Requires that we put away ourselves pick up the cross and walk in His Spirit, denying ourselves. He doesn't consummate anything.
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Dear Smithy: The work of the cross is to do away with YOU, blessed riddance!
God not only consumates everything as the Beginning and the Ending, He is the ta pante, the Source, the Guide and the Goal of everything!
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Romans 11:36
“oti ex autou kai di autou kai eiV auton ta panta autw h doxa eiV touV aiwnaV amhn”
Dr. Marvin Vincent N.T. Word Studies
Of - through - to (ex - dia - eiv).
Of, proceeding from as the source:
through, by means of, as maintainer, preserver, ruler:
To or unto, He is the point to which all tends. All men and things are for His glory.
Alford styles this doxology “the sublimest apostrophe existing even in the pages of inspiration itself.”
Robertson Word Pictures Of The N.T.
Of him = ex autou
Through him = di’ autou
Unto him = eiv auton
By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the
Ex = The Source
Di= The Agent
Eiv= The Goal
For ever = eiv touv aiwnav = “For the ages.”
Alford terms this doxology in verses 33-36 “the sublimest apostrophe existing even in the pages of inspiration itself.”
“oti ex autou kai di autou kai eiV auton ta panta autw h doxa eiV touV aiwnaV amhn”
Dr. Marvin Vincent N.T. Word Studies
Of - through - to (ex - dia - eiv).
Of, proceeding from as the source:
through, by means of, as maintainer, preserver, ruler:
To or unto, He is the point to which all tends. All men and things are for His glory.
Alford styles this doxology “the sublimest apostrophe existing even in the pages of inspiration itself.”
Robertson Word Pictures Of The N.T.
Of him = ex autou
Through him = di’ autou
Unto him = eiv auton
By these three prepositions Paul ascribes the universe (ta panta) with all the phenomena concerning creation, redemption, providence to God as the
Ex = The Source
Di= The Agent
Eiv= The Goal
For ever = eiv touv aiwnav = “For the ages.”
Alford terms this doxology in verses 33-36 “the sublimest apostrophe existing even in the pages of inspiration itself.”
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- If God knew when He created man, that some would be eternally wretched, did He not will this to be their doom?
- If God willed the endless misery of a part of His creatures, why is it said that "he will have all men to be saved?" -- (1 Tim. 2:4)
- If the Scriptures should testify, that God "will have all men to be damned," could we safely infer that a part might be saved?
- If the Scriptures testify, that God "will have all men to be saved," can we safely infer that a part may be damned?
- If God made an endless hell before He created man, did He know there would be any use for it?
- If God knew there would be use for an endless hell, must He not have created some men for endless misery?
- If God made an endless hell, was it included in the works which He pronounced "very good?" -- (Gen. 1:31)
- If there be an endless hell, and it was not made before the creation of men, when was it made?
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1. No, because of His Love for us he also let there be the choice we are able to make. It's His Sovereign will that all men be saved, It's His permissive will that allows us to choose to love Him or not.
2. Context, Context...and again Context.
1 Timothy 2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
A Call to Prayer
2 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2 for kings and all who are in [a]authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony [d]given at [e]the proper time. 7 For this I was appointed a [f]preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
8 Therefore I want the men in every place to pray, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension.
We as children of God are to pray for all men, for our leaders, so that we can live in peace with godliness and dignity. When we do that, it is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior who DESIRES all men to be save and come to the knowledge of the truth...(hence if you are not saved you are ignorant of the truth)...He didn't will that there is endless miseries. We ask for it. By rejecting Him.
Considering He is the Truth, The Hope, The Happiness and The absolute Goodness, without Him we do not have those things that do keep us from misery.
3. We can safely say for certain, that if you do not believe now and repent of your sins, you will live eternally in endless misery.
4. Answered in number 3.
5. Yes, it wasn't created for us. It was created for Satan and the angels that rebelled with him, against God.
6. Not necessarily, because of what He did for man, sending His Son to die for all our sins. Not just a chosen few.
7. It doesn't tell us, when Hell was created, He just created it. So, no answer for ya there.
8. Read 7.
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Dear Smithy: There is no such animal as His permissive will. Mankind has been "made subject to futility NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him who made it so."
Not by any choice of our own, the thelo Will of all wills prevails.
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