Questions About Hell

FineLinen said:

My friend, I have ZERO doubts! The ta pante shall be restored to ALL they have lost in the fall of Adam1.

“The times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets…”

And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto You: Whom the heavens must receive until the times of the restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21).

Peter’s statement speaks clearly of the times of the restitution of all things. Restitution, according to the best English usage, means the act of restoring something that has been taken away or lost; the act of making good or rendering an equivalent as for loss or injury. (Funk and Wagnall’s Dictionary)

This is in exact harmony with the Greek work temuriak which means restoration.

Some will no doubt reply to this by stating, as many do, that Peter was not promising that God would restore everything but only those things of which the prophets had spoken. I wish, however, to show as clearly as possible that the grammatical construction of this sentence declares the exact opposite to be the truth. I mean that Peter was actually saying that all the prophets from the beginning of the world had prophesied that there would be a restoration of all things and that the restoration would indeed be universal and would include all things.

You will notice that in the scripture quoted (Acts 3:21, King James Version) there is a comma after the word things. This comma indicates that the clause following : “which God hath spoken by the mouth of His holy prophets since the world began” – is what is known as a non-restrictive clause. A non-restrictive clause is one which can be omitted without changing or destroying the meaning of the principal clause or main statement. (See Mastering Effective English by Tressler-Lewis, Revised Edition, Pages 545-546.) It simply adds further information.

Now read the scripture, omitting the clause in question, and you will find the meaning is clearly stated and nothing of the sense is destroyed. If this clause were modifying the word things, it would be restrictive and no comma would be used. -George Hawtin-

Click to expand...

But again, the restitution or restoring of all things, does mean all the people prior to it/that, etc...?

Truth is we just don't know right now...? And we have not had Armageddon yet, or the end of day 6 and the beginning of day 7 yet, with the rule and reign or Christ until this creation is completely done, etc, and a whole new one begins after that or after the/that final judgment, (second resurrection), etc...

Anyway, my point is that we do not know if all the people will be saved or spared of not, and since were still before Armageddon, the Bible seems to say that right before that, the world will be full of a lot of very bad people, denying and blaspheming the name of Christ and the Father, and persecuting greatly and to an excessive degree His children everywhere, etc... Very much intense and extreme haters of God and His children, etc...

Anyway, I highly doubt people like that will be saved or spared or will get to go to Heaven (at the second resurrection/judgement), or will get to ever take part in the first resurrection/judgment to rule and reign with Christ during the age of His thousand year reign (or age or era) (period of time) after that, etc, (after Armageddon and first resurrection/judgment, etc) until the very end of this entire creation or age, and a whole new one (creation) (completely new heaven and earth) begins (or re-begins) (again), etc, or the events after Revelation 21 start (to happen) (again, etc) (anyway, immediately after the final second resurrection, and final, final judgment of all that ever is and ever was in this entire creation, etc), (as it is about to all end and be done away with and a whole new one begin) (again), etc... (The "eighth day" or the end of day 7 and the final second resurrection/judgment/evaluation, is really just a new beginning of a whole new creation at day 1 again, immediately after that, etc), (or after the very end of and completely dissolving and completely doing away with of this one now), etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Saint Steven said:

I can no longer in good conscience accuse my loving heavenly Father of such atrocities.
It does not fit his character.

Click to expand...

Brother,
May I ask then.

Is Christ a liar?

smithed64 said:

Brother,
May I ask then.

Is Christ a liar?

Click to expand...

Can you rephrase the question?
I can't have a discussion with a bulldozer.

Saint Steven said:

If your neighbor was torturing people in his basement, would you defend his good character?

Click to expand...

Brother,

Now your comparing apples to oranges.

I think your missing something, completely.

God doesn't send us to Hell. We do.
I'll explain, but first let's clear up some things.

Terminology and what the scripture says.

Some of this, i'm sure you already know. So not meaning to insult. Bear with me.
We know that many of the things said in the Bible are literal or figuratively speaking.
As I've said on other posting. Christ spoke more on Hell than Heaven. In one instance He speaks of Hell as fire, which produces light, It also produces darkness, if you've ever been in a burning Home, you can't see anything at all...retired firefighter here...been there. But we'll keep it simple.

Mark 9:48 (NASB) where THEIR WORM DOES NOT DIE, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED.

Click to expand...

He also says that it's "outer darkness"

Matthew 22:13 (NASB) "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

Click to expand...

Jesus word pictures to get his point across. Remember to whom He was speaking to.
And also to whom reads it today.

Hell is better understood to as to what isn't there: Paul puts it like this.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NASB) These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Click to expand...

The "destruction" used here does not mean annihilation. It means "to ruin".
Meaning that eternal ruining of ones soul. While living in sin, man ruins his soul, though selfishness, lusts, not caring, anger, hatred and such other things that are not good.

Pastor, apologist, and author Tim Keller, puts it this way:

"Even in this life we can see the kind of soul disintegration that self-centered creates. We know how selfish and self-absorption leads to perceiving bitterness, nauseating envy, paralyzing anxiety, paranoid thoughts, and the mental denials and distortions that accompanying them. Now ask the question: 'What if when we die, we don't end, but spiritually our life extends on into eternity?" Hell then is a trajectory of a soul, living a self-absorbed, self-centered life going on and on forever.

Christ warns us of this:

Luke 9:24-25 (NASB) "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it. "For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?

Click to expand...

The destruction of the soul continues forever, without God. A place without Him is a place without relationship, without love, without hope, joy, peace, beauty, satisfaction, contentment, affection, fulfillment, laughter and everything else that is called good. That would be hell - literally. A place void of all that God is would be a place of eternal loneliness and this would be eternal anguish.

The eternal fire used to describe hell is believed to be the decomposition of ones soul. The never-ending disintegration of all that is good in a person. Truth is, we are living souls becoming something. We are either becoming a person unselfishly loving God and others, or we are selfishly loving ourselves, which is real death.

If we were to look at the untarnished and harsh truth of things. We selfishly live, want for ourselves, seeking for ourselves and care for no one but for ourselves. We don't seek righteousness, no one does. Nor are we good.

Romans 3:10-18 (NASB) as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."

Click to expand...

Will continue with another post...

Saint Steven said:

Can you rephrase the question?
I can't have a discussion with a bulldozer.

Click to expand...

It's a simple, yes or no question.

He believed in Hell, so much so, He taught about it, warning us on how to avoid it, through simple narrative.

So, Is He a liar?

continuation of post #704

God's true desire.

Hell is the absence of true relationship and all that we call good. Which is the absolute Goodness of God isn't present. It is hard to imagine a place of absolute loneliness and absolute aloneness of the living dead. Your soul being eternally alive, but dead of all that we call goodness and more.

Yet is a loving God sending people to this place?

Scriptures show that God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed, but to repent.

2 Peter 3:9 (NASB) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Click to expand...

He loves the whole world. So much so that He sent His Son to die for the salvation of man. So that we can experience His presences and all the joy and goodness that it brings.

Psalm 16:11 (NASB) You will make known to me the path of life; In Your presence is fullness of joy; In Your right hand there are pleasures forever.

Click to expand...

Romans 2:4 (NASB) Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

Click to expand...

Yet, He will not force us to love him and enjoy a relationship with Him. We go there because we freely choose to reject Him.

You don't come to Christ and God's calling, because your afraid of Hell. You come because of What He did for you and the promises He made. For that relationship that God has made a way for us to have.
You come, with knowledge and no fear of hell at all.

smithed64 said:

God doesn't send us to Hell. We do.

Click to expand...

That's the Evangelical pacifier.
Blame the eternal torture of hell on the one who was born a sinner by no choice of their own.

smithed64 said:

The destruction of the soul continues forever, without God. A place without Him is a place without relationship, without love, without hope, joy, peace, beauty, satisfaction, contentment, affection, fulfillment, laughter and everything else that is called good. That would be hell - literally. A place void of all that God is would be a place of eternal loneliness and this would be eternal anguish.

The eternal fire used to describe hell is believed to be the decomposition of ones soul. The never-ending disintegration of all that is good in a person.

Click to expand...

What sort of monster would intentionally do something like that to another living soul?
Seems like a horrible thing to accuse God of. What if you are wrong about all this?

RaymondG said:

-Do you have a verse surmising that God must be held to and abide by the same laws and standards we are held to and must abide by?

-There is the notion that hell is there, and we are the ones who walk ourselves into it. God gives us a way of escape.....and if we choose to not take it...He is not under any obligation to save us outside of our will. What do you have to say concerning this idea?

Click to expand...

If God was held to abide by the same laws and standards of us, it was through Jesus Christ who overcame the law and set the standards for us to live through Him. Making Him Perfect and every man a sinner.

smithed64 said:

He will not force us to love him and enjoy a relationship with Him.

Click to expand...

Right. It just means a free ride to the human BBQ.
But we are given a choice. Original recipe, or extra crispy?

smithed64 said:

You don't come to Christ and God's calling, because your afraid of Hell.

Click to expand...

Right. What's to be afraid of?
Eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape is pretty much just another day at the office. Right?

David Bentley Hart Interview (8/2019)

David Bentley Hart is an Eastern Orthodox scholar of religion, and a philosopher, writer, and cultural commentator. His books include The Experience of God and The New Testament. His most recent book, That All Shall Be Saved: Heaven, Hell, and Universal Salvation

FineLinen said:

Dear Neo: If ta pante means the all, and it does, then the all shall be restored to the position prior to the big gulf accomplished by one single act of disobedience by Adam1.

The good, the bad, the ugly all destined to undergo radical change & transformation.

Many "made sinners" = many "made righteous."

Click to expand...

I hope so friend, I hope so.

Pray for it a lot and all the time...

God Bless You friend!

Saint Steven said:

That's the Evangelical pacifier.
Blame the eternal torture of hell on the one who was born a sinner by no choice of their own.

Click to expand...

Again with the insults.

No one is blaming anyone.
You are born that way, nothing can be done about that.
But you have the choice. God allows us to make that choice.
He just doesn't let us dictate the consequences of the choice made.

You either repent, place your trust in Christ.
Or
You don't

Saint Steven said:

What sort of monster would intentionally do something like that to another living soul?
Seems like a horrible thing to accuse God of. What if you are wrong about all this?

Click to expand...

Now we're getting into circular statements. You've asked this. And I've answered.

Saint Steven said:

Right. It just means a free ride to the human BBQ.
But we are given a choice. Original recipe, or extra crispy?

Click to expand...

First time your correct.
Crude, but correct.

Saint Steven said:

Right. What's to be afraid of?
Eternal conscious torment with no hope of escape is pretty much just another day at the office. Right?

Click to expand...

Maybe for you yes,
Not for me.

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Romans 1:20‭-‬23 NKJV