Questions about Evidence

[AV1611VET]

Those of you who say God provided evidence for [whatever], or God left evidence behind of [whatever]; do you mind explaining what you mean by this?

In the case of the former, are you saying God did something, then manufactured evidence and placed it around what He did, so as to leave clues?

In the case of the latter, are you saying God divinely protected evidence so it wouldn't decay, so as to insure it would serve as an audit trail of what He did?

I'm a little confused as to how you guys think God handled evidence of His handiwork.*

* Not the handiwork itself, but the evidence surrounding it.

In addition, by evidence, do you mean something that was generated as a byproduct of a specific act, or something that a specific act left behind?

If I walk across a skating rink in slippers, I could turn around, see no prints left behind, and go back and chisel footprints across the rink, so as to leave behind evidence that I walked across it.

By the same token, I could keep the temperature of the rink the same, so as to not allow any impressions that I created in the ice to distort; and I could keep people out of the rink to prevent the evidence from being contaminated.

Please explain.

 

[HitchSlap]

Those of you who say God provided evidence for [whatever], or God left evidence behind of [whatever]; do you mind explaining what you mean by this?

In the case of the former, are you saying God did something, then manufactured evidence and placed it around what He did, so as to leave clues?

In the case of the latter, are you saying God divinely protected evidence so it wouldn't decay, so as to insure it would serve as an audit trail of what He did?

I'm a little confused as to how you guys think God handled evidence of His handiwork.*


* Not the handiwork itself, but the evidence surrounding it.

In addition, by evidence, do you mean something that was generated as a byproduct of a specific act, or something that a specific act left behind?

If I walk across a skating rink in slippers, I could turn around, see no prints left behind, and go back and chisel footprints across the rink, so as to leave behind evidence that I walked across it.

By the same token, I could keep the temperature of the rink the same, so as to not allow any impressions that I created in the ice to distort; and I could keep people out of the rink to prevent the evidence from being contaminated.

Please explain.

C'mon AV, who're you kidding, you'd never leave your computer and walk across an ice skating rink in slippers. You might fall below your 1,031 ppd average.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Okay so say I am trying to bring you evidence of a rocket, only you cannot view the whole rocket. You can however view it's parts like a fin, nose cone, engine etc....

Could you put them back together in your mind?


I can show you the parts of God's handy work but you are going to have to do some logical thinking.

 

[AV1611VET]

Are you talking to me?

If so:

Okay so say I am trying to bring you evidence of a rocket, only you cannot view the whole rocket. You can however view it's parts like a fin, nose cone, engine etc....

Are you bringing me evidence of a rocket, or are you actually bringing me the rocket piecemeal?

Could you put them back together in your mind?

Yes

I can show you the parts of God's handy work but you are going to have to do some logical thinking.

I don't mind thinking logical, but if thinking logical means I have to contradict thinking theological, then logic can take a hike.

In other words, I subordinate logic to the theologic.

 

[lesliedellow]

It means the universe itself contains pointers to the existence of God. There is no need for God to "protect" it; it is just there. For example, how very convenient it is that the universe contains precisely the same number of protons as electrons, and how very convenient it is that the charge on an electron is exactly equal to the charge on a proton, but of opposite sign. How very convenient it is that the universe appears to operate in accordance with laws which seem to be set in stone.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Are you talking to me?

If so:

Are you bringing me evidence of a rocket, or are you actually bringing me the rocket piecemeal?

Yes

I don't mind thinking logical, but if thinking logical means I have to contradict thinking theological, then logic can take a hike.

In other words, I subordinate logic to the theologic.

I'll have to get back to you later...it's work o'clock for me.

 

[Loudmouth]

I can show you the parts of God's handy work but you are going to have to do some logical thinking.

You would first need to produce evidence demonstrating that the parts were the result of God's handiwork.

 

[Naturalism]

I don't mind thinking logical, but if thinking logical means I have to contradict thinking theological, then logic can take a hike.

In other words, I subordinate logic to the theologic.

AV, curious here, do you have some examples of where the theological overrides the logical as it pertains to analysis of data?

For those instances, based on what reason(s), evidence, or logic do you comprise the logical for the theological? (If this, then this, etc.)

I understand your signature captures it succinctly just looking for an example & supporting reasoned arguments (logical or not) thanks.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, curious here, do you have some examples of where the theological overrides the logical as it pertains to analysis of data?

How we got our moon.

 

[Belk]

Those of you who say God provided evidence for [whatever], or God left evidence behind of [whatever]; do you mind explaining what you mean by this?

In the case of the former, are you saying God did something, then manufactured evidence and placed it around what He did, so as to leave clues?

In the case of the latter, are you saying God divinely protected evidence so it wouldn't decay, so as to insure it would serve as an audit trail of what He did?

I'm a little confused as to how you guys think God handled evidence of His handiwork.*

* Not the handiwork itself, but the evidence surrounding it.

In addition, by evidence, do you mean something that was generated as a byproduct of a specific act, or something that a specific act left behind?

If I walk across a skating rink in slippers, I could turn around, see no prints left behind, and go back and chisel footprints across the rink, so as to leave behind evidence that I walked across it.

By the same token, I could keep the temperature of the rink the same, so as to not allow any impressions that I created in the ice to distort; and I could keep people out of the rink to prevent the evidence from being contaminated.

Please explain.

We are saying there is evidence that was left about how the Universe, the solar system, our world, and everything was formed. There is evidence left behind that allows us to figure out how it all came together. If you believe God created the universe then you believe this evidence shows how he went about it. (using the generic you obviously since you do not believe he left evidence)

 

[AV1611VET]

We are saying there is evidence that was left about how the Universe, the solar system, our world, and everything was formed.

What happened to God here?

He seems to have been factored out of your answer.

And you want me to accept this?

Actually I can't tell what you're saying -- since you're talking like a scientist or something.

Are you saying there is evidence that God left behind about how the universe, etc. was formed?

If not, how does your answer answer my OP?

 

[HitchSlap]

It means the universe itself contains pointers to the existence of God. There is no need for God to "protect" it; it is just there. For example, how very convenient it is that the universe contains precisely the same number of protons as electrons, and how very convenient it is that the charge on an electron is exactly equal to the charge on a proton, but of opposite sign. How very convenient it is that the universe appears to operate in accordance with laws which seem to be set in stone.

W/SAP is not impressive.

 

[Strathos]

There's a lot of evidence that has decayed over time and is no longer available, but what is available and detectable is all consistent and is what we would expect to find if our current models and understanding of reality are correct.

God just did what He did and didn't attempt to hide it or call specific attention to it.

 

[Belk]

We are saying there is evidence that was left about how the Universe, the solar system, our world, and everything was formed. There is evidence left behind that allows us to figure out how it all came together. If you believe God created the universe then you believe this evidence shows how he went about it. (using the generic you obviously since you do not believe he left evidence)

What happened to God here?

He seems to have been factored out of your answer.

No, it was quite clearly relayed in sentence number 3.

And you want me to accept this?

Accept what, that this is what we mean? Do you really think I am lying to you for some reason?

Actually I can't tell what you're saying -- since you're talking like a scientist or something.

What part are you having difficulty with?

Are you saying there is evidence that God left behind about how the universe, etc. was formed?

I'm saying there is evidence of how the universe was formed. Those who believe there is a God would see that as evidence of God's process for creating the universe.

If not, how does your answer answer my OP?

By telling you what we mean when we say God left evidence. Is it the fact that we are couching it in terms slanted towards the believer that is an issue?

 

[Naturalism]

How we got our moon.

Please elaborate. Where does it follow the theological overrides the logical here.

 

[Queller]

Those of you who say God provided evidence for [whatever], or God left evidence behind of [whatever]; do you mind explaining what you mean by this?

In the case of the former, are you saying God did something, then manufactured evidence and placed it around what He did, so as to leave clues?

Is there anyone that claims that God provided evidence for anything?

In the case of the latter, are you saying God divinely protected evidence so it wouldn't decay, so as to insure it would serve as an audit trail of what He did?

There is no reason for God to divinely protect evidence when the processes He set in motion would do it for Him.

I'm a little confused as to how you guys think God handled evidence of His handiwork.*

* Not the handiwork itself, but the evidence surrounding it.

In addition, by evidence, do you mean something that was generated as a byproduct of a specific act, or something that a specific act left behind?

No specific act is needed other than God setting everything in motion.

If I walk across a skating rink in slippers, I could turn around, see no prints left behind, and go back and chisel footprints across the rink, so as to leave behind evidence that I walked across it.

Which is not comparable to anything every claimed about the age of the earth.

By the same token, I could keep the temperature of the rink the same, so as to not allow any impressions that I created in the ice to distort; and I could keep people out of the rink to prevent the evidence from being contaminated.

Which is not comparable to the actual situation. A more comparable analogy would be that God left the processes in place that caused the ice to form but time and people have contaminated the evidence so that there are only a few footprints left. These few footprints point to only one conclusion, that at some point someone walked across the ice (when they walked across it can be determined with reasonable accuracy).

 

[TheBear]

You might fall below your 1,031 ppd average.

1,031 posts per day?!? That's crazy!!!

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

You would first need to produce evidence demonstrating that the parts were the result of God's handiwork.

If you as logically considering a real God, and the works thereof...there are no parts. All of natural existence is God's work. 100%

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

What happened to God here?

He seems to have been factored out of your answer.

And you want me to accept this?

Actually I can't tell what you're saying -- since you're talking like a scientist or something.

Are you saying there is evidence that God left behind about how the universe, etc. was formed?

If not, how does your answer answer my OP?

A universe is what happens when God removes himself in a very specific manner so that He does not pervade all space possible with almighty God-ness.

 

[Loudmouth]

If you as logically considering a real God, and the works thereof...there are no parts. All of natural existence is God's work. 100%

You are assuming the conclusion. That's not how logic works.