Questions about End Times Views

[SandRose]

I was looking at my edit profile page and there are the following options under "end times view":

Historic
Preterist
Futurist
Amillennialism
Premillennialism
Postmillennialism
Pretribulation
Midtribulation
Posttribulation

My preliminary searches so far haven't been very helpful (though admittedly I'm not very well-versed in this sort of thing). Also, I notice that the HTML is set up so that you can select more than one option and I'm wondering if some (or all?) of these aren't mutually exclusive.

Could someone very quickly explain what each of these means? I may have some followup questions, but for now I'm just trying to figure out the basic premise of each of these views.

 

[Seekermeister]

The first three terms refer when you believe that prophecies regarding the latter days relate to.

The second set of three, relates to when you believe that Christ will return in regards to the millenium.

The last set of three, are when you believe that the rapture will occur, in relation to the Tribulation period.

 

[Catherineanne]

ICould someone very quickly explain what each of these means? I may have some followup questions, but for now I'm just trying to figure out the basic premise of each of these views.

I have no idea what they all mean, and so cannot really help you. I don't even know which I am.

My own view is that Christians have been gnawing at the problem of end time prediction since the first century, and the simple truth is that we know nothing about when it will happen or how, except that it is safe in God's hands. So I do not bother about it. I am sure there is a name for that, but I don't know what it is.

I certainly do not believe we are near the end, or that any rapture nonsense is ever going to happen. I do not believe in looking for present history predicted in Scripture. This stuff to me is equivalent to medieval superstition; like buying indulgences from a passing mendicant friar, or relying on the bones of St Whoever for recovery from frostbite.

If I took more of an interest, I would know the names for this, but to me it is like learning the different names of various brands of quack medicine. I really don't care enough to bother.

However, I wish you well in your search for enlightenment.

 

[Catherineanne]

The first three terms refer when you believe that prophecies regarding the latter days relate to.

The second set of three, relates to when you believe that Christ will return in regards to the millenium.

The last set of three, are when you believe that the rapture will occur, in relation to the Tribulation period.

What a superb clarification!

Having said I don't care, now I do. I am going to look at them again, and work out which I am, if any.

Thanks, SeekerM.

K. Got as far as historic, and the rest is N/A.

 

[heron]

Lol!

Proposed timelines here --

http://www.harvestherald.com/prophecychart.html
http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Timeline/Big.Chart.Intro.html

Of course, each represents one of the views, but would give an idea of what the events are.

My own view is that Christians have been gnawing at the problem of end time prediction since the first century

That is my view.

I personally think it's important because God sent these warning for our own preparation, out of thoughtfulness. And Jesus asked us to watch for the signs. We watch, so we don't lose heart.

There are also tiny instructions built into these passages, like "20 And pray that your flight will not occur in winter nor in a sabbath," "See that not any leads you astray," "...rumors of wars. See, do not be terrified," "But the one who endures to the end, that one will be kept safe," "Watch, then," "you also be ready,"

(Matthew 24, Luke 21)

"Then when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (the one
reading, let him understand), Dan. 11:31; 12:11 then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; the one on the housetop, let him not go down to take anything out of his house; and the one in the field, let him not turn back to take his garment."

These are instructions I'd like to know if I was in a spot!

But the chapter that follows points out the importance of being ready by caring for the sick and needy. So the viewpoint of moving on with a godly life, without studying end times, still fits neatly in Jesus' instructions.

 

[heron]

Correct me in my errors --

First of all,

Tribulation= a time of wars, storms, and persection, expected to elevate for seven years.

Rapture = an event where Jesus brings His believers off the earth, to Himself.

Millenium = a thousand years, where a Revelation statement shows a peaceful time, where the Lord reigns.


Historic -- Comparing scriptural prophecy with actual events of past, present, future.

Preterist -- All end time prophecy was fulfilled during first century AD.

Futurist -- Broad category encompassing several of the theories of the Revelation prophecies as still to come.

Amillennialism -- Millenium reign was the age of the church, the AD years.

Premillennialism --Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years at the conclusion of the final judgment.

Postmillennialism -- Christians govern earth for a golden age (some feel that Jesus returns after that millenium)

Pretribulation -- second coming will be in two stages separated by a seven-year period of tribulation.

Midtribulation -- Christians removed around 3.5 years of the seven years of turmoil

Posttribulation -- Christians live through the entire tribulation, and Jesus shows up at the end.

 

[Confess]

This maybe a helpful read:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/endtme-1.pdf

 

[Catherineanne]

Correct me in my errors --

First of all,

Tribulation= a time of wars, storms, and persection, expected to elevate for seven years.

Rapture = an event where Jesus brings His believers off the earth, to Himself.

Millenium = a thousand years, where a Revelation statement shows a peaceful time, where the Lord reigns.


Historic -- Comparing scriptural prophecy with actual events of past, present, future.

Preterist -- All end time prophecy was fulfilled during first century AD.

Futurist -- Broad category encompassing several of the theories of the Revelation prophecies as still to come.

Amillennialism -- Millenium reign was the age of the church, the AD years.

Premillennialism --Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years at the conclusion of the final judgment.

Postmillennialism -- Christians govern earth for a golden age (some feel that Jesus returns after that millenium)

Pretribulation -- second coming will be in two stages separated by a seven-year period of tribulation.

Midtribulation -- Christians removed around 3.5 years of the seven years of turmoil

Posttribulation -- Christians live through the entire tribulation, and Jesus shows up at the end.

Devastated. Now none of the above, not even historic.



However, very pleased to be enlightened about these terms.

 

[Catherineanne]

That is my view.

I personally think it's important because God sent these warning for our own preparation, out of thoughtfulness. And Jesus asked us to watch for the signs. We watch, so we don't lose heart.

Quite right. Just as we watch the skies so that we know when to carry an umbrella. But it is important to bear in mind that this particular rainstorm has been confidently expected for 2,000 years and may well take another 2,000 or more to arrive.

There are also tiny instructions built into these passages, like "20 And pray that your flight will not occur in winter nor in a sabbath," "See that not any leads you astray," "...rumors of wars. See, do not be terrified," "But the one who endures to the end, that one will be kept safe," "Watch, then," "you also be ready,"

(Matthew 24, Luke 21)

"Then when you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (the one
reading, let him understand), Dan. 11:31; 12:11 then let those in Judea flee into the mountains; the one on the housetop, let him not go down to take anything out of his house; and the one in the field, let him not turn back to take his garment."

These are instructions I'd like to know if I was in a spot!

These are addressed to Christians fleeing Roman persecution, and have well attested historical attributions. Ergo, they do not trouble me at all. Especially as I do not live in Judea, but in the UK. Where it is sometimes sensible to turn back and get your coat and handbag/wallet if you are rushing out of the house.

However, if the angel sounding his trumpet were to turn up tonight, I am pretty sure I would know not to bother with my credit cards or passport, without having to double check in Scripture.

But the chapter that follows points out the importance of being ready by caring for the sick and needy. So the viewpoint of moving on with a godly life, without studying end times, still fits neatly in Jesus' instructions.

The problem with studying end times is that it is a very short step from thinking 'this is what this might mean' to saying 'this is what it really does mean'. The simple truth is that none of us really knows, and that God has said that we will not know. So to me that equates to, none of my business, and usurping God's position to try.

So what is the name for this? A refusal to engage in second guessing the Almighty, out of respect for his Sovereignty. Perhaps more than that; regarding any such second guessing as meaningless at best, and deflecting attention away from what we are commanded to do, which is to love our neighbours as ourselves, at worst.

There must be one, in all the great pantheon of Christian literature.

 

[Seekermeister]

It should be understood that the prophecies regarding the latter days were not included in the Bible merely for amusement, debate fodder, etc. There is a very real blessing for those who understand. The fact that these prophecies were misunderstood in the past is not surprising, because they must be correlated to current events to shed a light on them.

Obviously, there is still not a consensus on all aspects of these prophecies even now. I believe that is intended by the author of these prophecies (God), because He intended them as aids for those whom He had selected.

Whether these prophecies are about this time, or some time in the future, can be deduced by general correlation with the news that we all see each day. But, more specically by one particular prophecy about the fig tree (symbol of Israel). It says that some of those alive when this "tree" is reestablished (1948), shall still be alive at the tribulation, and the second advent of Jesus. I was born in 1947, so I qualify among this group, and I certainly do not expect to remain alive in this body for another 2000 years.

The importance of these prophecies is paramount, because the entire Bible was written with this era in mind.

 

[SandRose]

Thanks for your responses so far. Admittedly some of the links that have been posted went a bit over my head, but Heron's definitions in particular were helpful. Regarding my question about the possibility of choosing multiple options, am I right in assuming that it's possible for someone to have a view of historic posttribulation but not preterist posttribulation, or do the different views go together in different ways (or not at all)?

Also, I found it interesting that a number of responses have had an attitude that the whole matter isn't very important -- that end times views are akin to superstition, that it's not our place to worry about it, etc. Is this a common view in Christianity, or does end times normally play a significant role in Christian doctrine? Does the denomination you belong to have an impact on how you view the matter?

(Also, I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has a specific interpretation -- anyone who decisively picked one or more options under "end times view" on their profile -- if they'd be willing to share the reasoning or scriptural backing for their choice. So far Seekermeister seems to have put forth the most specific interpretation, but more details or other opinions would be welcome here as well.)

 

[heron]

Thanks all for your appreciation, but I must warn you that I had to look these up, so they might be a little off. (You don't have to fill everything out in the profile form.)

Much of the caution you see stems from an overabundance of teaching on the end times. We live in an age where booksellers are savvy to profitability, so they promote whatever people gobble up. Big names sell, fascinating topics sell... we are driven by our desires for an adrenaline rush.

I seriously doubt that prophecy was intended to have this effect.

There are also new believers who hinge their faith on wanting to be part of the end times action, and forget to read the rest of the Bible.

I feel that all prophecy was meant to be listened to, especially for the one it was directed at. The revelation was given to John, who was well respected in the early church community, and his passing along the information to a few people would have resulted in most of the cities of churches getting it within the year. (My guess.) God knows who is the most suitable one to deliver the information.

Looking at God's warnings on a small scale, many of us trust His voice for small things like "avoid that stranger," or "go down the other street instead of the one you planned," and we find wisdom and protection in His words.

 

[Key]

Also, I found it interesting that a number of responses have had an attitude that the whole matter isn't very important -- that end times views are akin to superstition, that it's not our place to worry about it, etc. Is this a common view in Christianity, or does end times normally play a significant role in Christian doctrine? Does the denomination you belong to have an impact on how you view the matter?

Well when it comes to the Revelation.. it's not a big thing to me.. I keep my eyes out.. and just keep my guard up..

If it already happened.. good..

If it's gonna happen... I better be ready...

If I am gonna go before the tribulation.. Great..

if not.. I better be ready...


Hummm.. I was a Boy Scout (Not really, but I like the mentality) always be prepared.... so... just in case you know...

What happens.. is how God had it planned.. I'm along for the ride.. but I plan to be ready to "Get on the roller coaster" when I am told.. know what I mean.

I mean.. Just because I don't think someone will steal my car.. does not mean I am gonna leave the keys on the seat and door wide open... if you know what I mean.

Just my way of looking at it....

God Bless

Key

 

[BigNorsk]

Endtimes are important but not nearly as important in many circles as others. A great emphasis on the end times has almost always lead to errors and an unbalanced Christian life.

Lutherans see the most important part of the endtimes story as God triumphs. And he saves his people. It is a comfort to us. Many other groups make it to be something to scare children and even adults with.

It's purpose is decidedly not to reveal to us exact times and what exactly is going to happen. If it did, doing so would actually go against other scripture that says only the Father knows the time, and Jesus will return like a thief, meaning not when we expect.

It does serve a useful purpose because when someon starts spouting his special knowledge about when things are going to happen and such you can just follow the prescription of scripture and have nothing to do with him or her.

Marv

 

[rocklife]

Thanks for your responses so far. Admittedly some of the links that have been posted went a bit over my head, but Heron's definitions in particular were helpful. Regarding my question about the possibility of choosing multiple options, am I right in assuming that it's possible for someone to have a view of historic posttribulation but not preterist posttribulation, or do the different views go together in different ways (or not at all)?

Also, I found it interesting that a number of responses have had an attitude that the whole matter isn't very important -- that end times views are akin to superstition, that it's not our place to worry about it, etc. Is this a common view in Christianity, or does end times normally play a significant role in Christian doctrine? Does the denomination you belong to have an impact on how you view the matter?

I have visited a church with a televangelism ministry, and that preacher has made movies about fictional accounts of end-time things. And I have also seen a couple other denominations also hold end-time views as very important, but many others are more quiet about the issue since the Bible does share the future plans, but some are hard to figure out because they seem to give some different messages. I personally think there is a lot of things going on, so God telling us the future is a lot of information, we probably are not so good at sorting it out so much, but that's just my opinion.

I put my focus more on life now, and are we edifying each other to Christ and God's ways. Jesus also says we don't have to worry about tomorrow, today has enough trouble of its own. I think He just tells us future things for more proof of Himself, and whatever reasons He has.

 

[Seekermeister]

BigNorsk,

It's purpose is decidedly not to reveal to us exact times and what exactly is going to happen. If it did, doing so would actually go against other scripture that says only the Father knows the time, and Jesus will return like a thief, meaning not when we expect.

A little more precisely, it says that we shall not know the day or the hour, but we shall know the season. The purpose of the prophecies is not to scare anyone, but to help them be prepared.

 

[heron]

A little more precisely, it says that we shall not know the day or the hour, but we shall know the season.

True.
I appreciate all the work that some teachers have put into studying governmental trends, policy changes, and technology developments. Even though it's done in the name of Biblical prophecy, the research is often very accurate and not discussed on national news until three or four years later.

For instance, the panic about government agents able to screen our calls and Internet messages -- the teachers of prophecy interpretation went to the locations and interviewed staff, it seems almost ten years before it became newsworthy.

 

[Adoniram]

I am one of those that does get excited studying prophesy relating to the end times. For one, because I believe the signs of the times show the "season" is upon us, it stirs me to be more vigilant about how I live, worship and relate to others. "Whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God." Not that I wouldn't anyway, but it is just a little added incentive. Another reason is because Jesus said "I'm going to prepare a place for you, but I'm coming back to get you and take you to be with me there." This is perhaps the most exciting promise Jesus made. And to see that the "season" is here, I know that He's putting on the finishing touches to a fabulous place, and He'll be back for us soon. I don't know about you, but to me, that's something to get excited about.

I don't neglect the rest of the scriptures, but prophesy in particular generates genuine excitement.

 

[A_Pioneer]

Remember Katrina, the horrible storms of this month, things are tough all over! Are we in the tribulation?

No one knows that, but we who do have eyes we can see signs.
And Yeshua/Jesus says Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

This is a coming event that we who are alive will witness, these things take place before the Trumpet sounds, and the resurrection.
Matthew 25:13 Watch ye therefore, because you know not the day nor the hour.
Luke 12:54 ¶ He also said to the multitudes, "When you see a cloud rising in the west, you say at once, ‘A shower is coming’; and so it happens.
He tells us to watch for the signs of his coming, those who know the "Word of God" will not be surprised.

You will not yet know the day or the hour, but you will know when the sun goes dark! I was a "Boy Scout" the Scout motto "Be Prepared", so get your house in order, make peace with those who hate you, there may not be time when the Messiah's light comes from the East unto the West.
Sermon over.
Shalom

 

[Catherineanne]

The importance of these prophecies is paramount, because the entire Bible was written with this era in mind.

Can you give me Scripture to back up this totally ridiculous assertion? Many thanks.