Questioning of Islam

copticorthodoxy · Apr 26, 2008

Yes , The copts are persecuted for 1400 years since the Arabs took our homeland .
here are a sample of violence cmmitted against copts
http://www.copts.net/registrar.asp

These are the Coptic demands
http://copts.com/english1/index.php/coptic-demands/

This photo for The 21 Martyrs Funeral of Al-Kosheh ( poor vilage in upper Egypt ) in 2000 AD

copticorthodoxy · Apr 26, 2008

Futuwwa said:
And, as your quote shows, the Egyptian police intervened and put an end to it. Ergo, the Copts are not persecuted by the authorities, but subject to private attacks by hateful individuals. If that is persecution, then US and Greece persecute Muslims too.

We are persecuted by the authorities , they let the individuals attack us and burn our churches and at last they appear
Egypt is our homeland before those Arabs !

Futuwwa · Apr 26, 2008

Is that an official practice? No. Hence, your problem is with corruption among the authorities, not the authority itself.

Futuwwa · Apr 26, 2008

Philothei said:
The tensions have not eased and there is still christian (as the beginning of the paragraph states) persecution. And I have better put you in ignore... There is no reported percecution for Greece... Where in the States you see persecution of the muslims?? I think you are fantasizing things Futuwa ....no suprise to me anyways...

Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Muslims in the USA.

Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Muslims in Greece.

Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Copts in Egypt.

If one is persecution, then so are the others. Mind you, I did not say that Greece or the USA persecute Muslims. I said, if (notice the "if", it's a conditional statement) the hateful actions of individuals who are in no way endorsed by the authorities count as persecution, then every country in the world where hate-crimes occur is persecuting a certain group.

randomman · Apr 26, 2008

copticorthodoxy said:
Yes , The copts are persecuted for 1400 years since the Arabs took our homeland .
here are a sample of violence cmmitted against copts
http://www.copts.net/registrar.asp

These are the Coptic demands
http://copts.com/english1/index.php/coptic-demands/

This photo for The 21 Martyrs Funeral of Al-Kosheh ( poor vilage in upper Egypt ) in 2000 AD

arabs took you land !!!

the muslims in egypt are more copts than the traitors christian copts ... their ancestors converted to islam 1400 years ago ... they are not arabs ... they 110% copts

Secundulus · Apr 26, 2008

randomman said:
the muslims in egypt are more copts than the traitors christian copts ... their ancestors converted to islam 1400 years ago ... they are not arabs ... they 110% copts

If the Muslims are Copts also, why do they expend so much effort killing their brother Copts and burning their places of worship?

Where did they learn this? What motivates them to take such actions?

Is this something inherent to the Egyptian? Or have they learned it from somewhere else?

Futuwwa · Apr 26, 2008

I think you got the quote tag wrong.

Secundulus · Apr 26, 2008

Sorry. I'll see if I can fix it.

Philothei · Apr 26, 2008

Futuwwa said:
Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Muslims in the USA.

Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Muslims in Greece.

Certain individuals commit hate-crimes against Copts in Egypt.

If one is persecution, then so are the others. Mind you, I did not say that Greece or the USA persecute Muslims. I said, if (notice the "if", it's a conditional statement) the hateful actions of individuals who are in no way endorsed by the authorities count as persecution, then every country in the world where hate-crimes occur is persecuting a certain group.

Futuwa there are govents that are "against" Christians in Egypt and Turkey.... Turkey has committed many many crimes against many many ethnic groups in Turkey:
Kurds, Armenians, Pontian, Greeks..... to name a few... but this is derailing this thread so... I am not going to be here for too long... Show me a single article of "atrocities" done by "individuals" against the muslims in Greece.... I dare you....and do use the international media... not some obscure muslim based one...

copticorthodoxy · Apr 26, 2008

randomman said:
arabs took you land !!!

the muslims in egypt are more copts than the traitors christian copts ... their ancestors converted to islam 1400 years ago ... they are not arabs ... they 110% copts

you could say what you want , but this will not change the fact

The fact is the Arab nomads came to the civilized land of the copts and took it and forced the egyptians to convert to islam

who changed the tongue of Egypt from Coptic to Arabic ???? ofcourse the Arabs who forced the copts to change the egyptian language

so the muslims are the traitors
then tell me why you call the copts traitors ????? !!

tell me why the goverment don't allow the copts to get high positions ??

Also please don't say that muslims are copts because the egyptian muslims themselves proud to be Arabs

Do you know that if you want to build or repair any church in Egypt you must get permission from the president of Egypt himself !!!!!

Futuwwa · Apr 26, 2008

Philothei, how about this for starters?

copticorthodoxy · Apr 26, 2008

vidoes about Islam, please muslims see these videoshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iLAH9D18-o&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lACG-2kOkU0&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsN7s3Uqw1g&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx0VzN20mH0&feature=related

Futuwwa · Apr 26, 2008

Let me guesssss... it's Boutros the Wonder Cleric!

HumbleSiPilot77 · Apr 26, 2008

randomman said:
<staff edit>

So they illegally occupy Egypt,what do you do about it?

MK11 · Apr 27, 2008

copticorthodoxy said:
you could say what you want , but this will not change the fact

The fact is the Arab nomads came to the civilized land of the copts and took it and forced the egyptians to convert to islam

A very nice joke! Don't you know that when we came you were hiding in caves fearing to be killed by the Roman Catholics? Don't you know that your Patriarchs were hiding in the desert? We came and saved you from these massacres?
And what? Forced you to convert? Then how are you living now as a Christian? Don't you know that about 8 million Egyptians are Christians? Why were not they forced to Islam?

tell me why the goverment don't allow the copts to get high positions ??

What a blatant lie! Don't you know Maged George and Yosef Botros Ghali? Aren't they Copts and they are ministers? Do you know that the head of my department in college is a Copt? Or you are only try to beg your brothers to show them :Christians are persecuted Come and rescue us, a mere lie like that of Adli Abadir and Michael Monir.
Yes, in Islam it is not acceptable that non-Muslims get high or dominating positions in an Islamic government, but I wanted only to show the lies of those Christians and their envy against Islam.

May be you'll also come and say that Muslims kidnap your girls, which is another blatant lie.

Also please don't say that muslims are copts because the egyptian muslims themselves proud to be Arabs

That doesn't negate the fact that most Egyptian Muslims are originally converts. Do you know that your church is now screaming about the huge number of converts from Christianity to Islam?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nARxz4vo1M&eurl=http://christianforums.com/t7088905&page=5
http://www.almesryoon.com/ShowDetails.asp?NewID=47128&Page=1

vidoes about Islam, please muslims see these videos

Are you Christians still deceived by that exhausted card? Many Muslims already proved his lies and answered him? Not only that, but if you opened the Paltalk and different discussion forums, you will see that this guy was the reason of conversion of many Christians to Islam, he tried to attack Muslims, the result is that many Christians began to be involved in conversation with Muslims and began to know the truth and convert to Islam, see for example Halimo's room and wesam's room, see ebn maryam and forkan forums, you will see how that Botros and his gang are a real joke, see that for example:
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=81
See also an interesting book uncovering some of his lies:
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14414
BTW, do you know that Pope Shonouda tells that Zakaria is excommunicated and he warns Christians about him:
http://st-takla.org/FAQ-Questions-V...ignation-of-Abouna-Father-Zakaria-Botros.html

Note: All non Arabs may Google translate these links

copticorthodoxy · Apr 27, 2008

MK11 said:
Yes, in Islam it is not acceptable that non-Muslims get high or dominating positions in an Islamic government, but I wanted only to show the lies of those Christians and their envy against Islam.

Click to expand...

So , your religion doesn't equalize between all the people !!!!! as usual a coptic minister for unimporant ministry and one of Ghali's family at any position
and he is the same person at the parliament

That doesn't negate the fact that most Egyptian Muslims are originally converts. Do you know that your church is now screaming about the huge number of converts from Christianity to Islam?

Click to expand...

LOL , this video for Max Michael the one who is claiming to be patriarch for his false church..!

Father Zakaria makes the muslims allover the world angry because he is telling the truth

Finally ... you are Arabs , say what you say but you are Arabs & nomads

you still searching at your quran for science??? !!! so funny the muslims tell you " we know this fact before the modern science it is written in our book " LOL LOL
i ask you to show us the benefits of your quran's science , turn it into fact to improve our land !!! if you could but if you couldn't stop talking about this nonsense

Philothei · Apr 27, 2008

Futuwwa said:
Philothei, how about this for starters?

This is hardly "percecution" not allowing a mosque to be build next to our airport. I am too familiar with the issue and you are not. There are many mosques in Greece that opporate in northern Greece espe. where the muslim population is stronger. They are also represented by two senators in the Greek parliament.... I do not see any of the muslim countries having "other religion" senators... show me one in Turkey, or Egypt.... If you consider arguing where the mosque will be built (that has been already donated by the Greek Orthodox Church out of charity to the Muslims) for persecution then you are "twisting" the truth to come up with something troublesome..... There are no "crimes" of hate to the muslims in Greece as they are full Greek citizens, many are hired in Government jobs etc.

I cannot believe that you missed this ... rather giving us an old unadated source... so much for your false claims.....lol.....

The majority of the immigrant Muslim community resides in Athens. In recognition of their religious rights, the Greek government approved the building of a mosque in July 2006. In addition, the Greek Orthodox Church has donated 300,000 square feet, worth an estimated $20 million, in west Athens for the purpose of a Muslim cemetery.[3][4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Greece

a. Parliamentary elections.
The Muslims of Thrace participate actively in Greek political life and a good number of them are members of political parties. During Parliamentary elections all political parties include, on a permanent basis in their electoral lists, Muslim candidates. In almost all the successive Parliaments from 1927 onwards, the Muslim deputies (usually 2) were elected and participated actively in parliamentary work.

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/misc/96-04-06.mgr.html

show me where in the mulsim countries you can find "minority" rights that allows them to particiapte in Govn't.... and actually enforce that right.... not only on paper... by having representative (senator) in their government.

MK11 · Apr 27, 2008

copticorthodoxy said:
So , your religion doesn't equalize between all the people !!!!! as usual a coptic minister for unimporant ministry and one of Ghali's family at any position
and he is the same person at the parliament

This has nothing to do with equalization, but non-Muslims shouldn't dominate Muslims because the upper hand should be for Islam and so as not to let non-Muslims control Muslims by their ego. BTW, you'd need to read what the Bible told in Deu 7 about how to treat with the gentiles, does your god really equalize between all people? According to Deu 7(and many passages in Deu as well), I don't think so.
As for the ministers in Egypt, well remember that you are still a minority which is less than 10%, so you don't represent the Egyptian people, how should you rule them? Besides, don't forget that Saweras already has a large portion of Egyptian economy, if the case was really a persecution, he wouldn't have reached that.
BTW, do Christians hate Ghali's family? I myself don't know.

copticorthodoxy said:
LOL , this video for Max Michael the one who is claiming to be patriarch for his false church..!

And what about that link?
http://www.almesryoon.com/ShowDetail...D=47128&Page=1
And what about your father zakaria who is preaching in a protestant channel? Aren't they a false church also?

copticorthodoxy said:
Father Zakaria makes the muslims allover the world angry because he is telling the truth

The usual answer by Christians when they are shocked with the truth about their father botros. It seems you haven't read any of the links I gave you, many people already answered his lies. Be brave and open my links.

copticorthodoxy said:
Finally ... you are Arabs , say what you say but you are Arabs & nomads

Another manifestation of Coptic ignorance when faced by the truth. Muslims when came to Egypt, they were not more than 8 thousands, and Egyptians were 2 millions, how could it be the case that Egyptians now are less than 10% versus the Arabs? There was a book about history of Coptic Church made by a local Egyptian priest, I can't remember its name now, it talks about this issue and gives Muslims their right.

copticorthodoxy said:
you still searching at your quran for science??? !!! so funny the muslims tell you " we know this fact before the modern science it is written in our book " LOL LOL

What is the relation between what we are discussing and the scientific miracles in the Quran? Won't you grow up in your discussions Copts? If you want to read about this issue, you can enter 55a.net. But this thread has nothing to do with that.

LibertyChic · Apr 27, 2008

This thread is becoming heated. Please take a breath and think before you post. Watch your tones and keep it in check.

That is all....

-Libby

copticorthodoxy · Apr 27, 2008

As Christians we have another view to the old tesament we believe in the grace of Jesus , so get as much verses as you can from the old testament , we view it in spirtual view
But Islam is earthy religion , cares about this land only , so it allows muslims to get positions they don't deserve

We don't care if Fr. Zakaria preach in protestant channel , it is just a media , also the protestant groups are legally repsented in the middle east churches council and they don't pretend to have patriarches

Answer me ?? why Amr ebn el Aes came to egypt with armies!!! to spread the religion of peace ??? if he came lonely what would happen !!!

St. Mark came to Egypt lonely and he spread the christianity without any force , do you know why ?? because it is the truth at last he has been killed for his true message

tell me why your mother land ( Saudi Arabia ) doesn't allow for the bible to get into it ?? they afraid from the truth , they afraid from the evangelising !!! those people cut any bible discovered in the airport !! LOL

Tell me why the Iraqi muslims killed the Caladian Bishop of Iraq , why would they kill peaceful Iraqi man!!!

Are you angry because Greece doesn't allow you to build mosques !!!! so tell me why Saudi Arabia doesn't allow to build any church ( No churches at all )
Because your prophet said " two religions will not meet in the Arab island "
Again i say because they afraid from the truth

In Egypt at Friday islamic prayer you could hear Muslims Imams through the loud speakers at the streets asking God to revenge from christians and Jews , they say something like that

O God don't allow their women to give Birth , and the people reply to him AMEN
O God destroy their Homes .. Amen
O God revenge from the monkeys and pigs ( Jews and christians ) .. Amen

LOL LOL LOL

The religion of peace calls the jews and the christians monkeys and pigs.... LOL

so , don't use the modern technology which is invented by the monkeys and the Jews , Go to pligrim ( Haij ) by camels and don't use the plan because it is made by the monkeys
My dear , yes the Copts are minority in Egypt but the quantum is not everything , we are ruling Egypt fy our efforts and our work , see how many Big comapny owned by Copts , we are ruling the Egyptian economy by our work ..as per your religion state , could you take our economical role ??? you can't

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