Question

[Warrior Monk]

I believe that the Old Testament/5 Books of Moses/Torah is the Word of God. Is there any difference between this philosophy and Messianic philosophy? Many people who identify themselves as Christians tell me that the Old Testament is "Jewish mythology" and that all that matters is the New Testament. Such Christians say things like "war is a sin" and make other insane, suicidal, and Bible-hating comments. How do you all feel about this? How do you reconcile "turning the other cheek" with self-defense?

So three questions really.

God bless America and Eretz Yisrael.

 

[Henaynei]

New Testament only is not unlike having a roof without the foundation or walls.... or a screen door on a submarine

Torah is Al pi Adoni - from the Hand of G-d

as with most blanket statements "war is sin" is WRONG ​

if war is sin, then G-d is a sinner - G-d forbid ​

Like my hubby has been known to say - "What? did G-d go take anger management classes during the Inter-testamental period and become Jesus who is just all peace , love and gentleness??"

 

[simchat_torah]

I vote Henaynei as the #1 pictionary star of the CF MJ forums!

 

[Talmidah]

I guess my smiley sign didn't turn out right. Oh well...just goes to show that Henaynei is the smiley

 

[Henaynei]

See -- with enough cute and poignant smilies - you can make everyone forget the OP!!

 

[ShirChadash]

Like my hubby has been known to say - "What? did G-d go take anger management classes during the Inter-testamental period and become Jesus who is just all peace , love and gentleness??"

SNORT! Coffeeeee on my screeen! LOLOLOLOL!

 

[ShirChadash]

I believe that the Old Testament/5 Books of Moses/Torah is the Word of God. Is there any difference between this philosophy and Messianic philosophy? Many people who identify themselves as Christians tell me that the Old Testament is "Jewish mythology" and that all that matters is the New Testament. Such Christians say things like "war is a sin" and make other insane, suicidal, and Bible-hating comments. How do you all feel about this? How do you reconcile "turning the other cheek" with self-defense?

So three questions really.

first -- I second the nomination for Henaynei

Secondly (and someone correct me if I am wrong)... yes, Warrior Monk, I believe Messianics (AFAIK) all pretty much would agree with you that the Torah/"Pentateuch"/first 5 books of the Bible were not only G'd-given but G'd-uttered directly, and written down by Moses (er... some say also Joshua, nu?)

The Torah IS the Word of G-d, and it is this Word (and also Yeshua Himself) that is referrred to all over the "New" Testament whenever the Word of G-d is mentioned (we know that this term -- "Word of G-d" -- is also Yeshua, the Living Word, the "Memra"... therefore, Yeshua/Jesus is Torah itself and He cannot be separated from His teaching/Torah). Christians who believe that the "Old" Testament is Jewish mythology are in complete and serious error.

The Fulfillment of our faith in the One true G-d, is Yeshua HaMoshiach. The Foundation of our faith in the One true G-d, is His Torah (teaching), which *I* believe He gave and gives to all those who believe upon Him. (see my sig line, please)

As for this blanket "war is sin" blahblahblah... nonsense. I don't believe that all war is sin. I would probably say that much war is sin, yes... but I do believe that war is warranted sometimes, as well, and the Truth of the Word of G-d includes war that was warranted. Anyone with a Biblical world-view knows it is so.

I am not a pacifist, and this issue is not one that I have fleshed out much... but I'll say that on a *personal* level, my body, my husband, my children, and my home belong to the King-of-King's; I would fight to protect these from common violence and violation as I do not think my King would wish to have His property and children "lightly" abused... but if we were being persecuted for Yeshua's namesake, well that's another story IMO and I hope I would stand and stand and stand and bear what persecution may come my way...

 

[Henaynei]

SNORT! Coffeeeee on my screeen! LOLOLOLOL!

I'll tell him you liked it he needs a pick-me-up right now!!

 

[Warrior Monk]

Which branch of Christianity most closely resembles Messianic Judaism? Anyone have an opinion?

 

[simchat_torah]

Well, Messianic Judaism comes in many different flavors. There are branches of MJ'ism that don't resemble christianity at all, but more of an orthodox judaism. Yet there are messianic congregations that look more like a pentacostal ch-rch.
It really depends on where you go.

 

[Warrior Monk]

Another question: Are we allowed to hate our Nazi enemies?

I said that we should hate our Satanic and Nazi enemies and I said if you don't know how to hate then you can't truly love. Another Christian brought up these verses:

Matthew 5: (Straight from Jesus' own lips!)
43. "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44. "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45. "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46. "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47. "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

And if Jesus doesn't hate, why does he **** people to hell?

 

[ShirChadash]

Another question: Are we allowed to hate our Nazi enemies?

I said that we should hate our Satanic and Nazi enemies and I said if you don't know how to hate then you can't truly love. Another Christian brought up these verses:

Matthew 5: (Straight from Jesus' own lips!)
43. "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44. "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45. "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46. "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47. "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

And if Jesus doesn't hate, why does he **** people to hell?

Hate actions... love people. Remember... for we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities... it's not the people we hate, Brother. KWIM? Why waste time hating people who are blind to their sin? If you know how to hate behavior and to love people, then you have it right, I think. And, my friend... Yeshua doesn't send anyone to hell. Those who have a place in hell will be those who choose it... we either choose FOR the G-d of Israel... or by default we choose against Him. We choose. Just my humble O.

 

[Warrior Monk]

Thanks for you input. God bless you, America, and Eretz Yisrael.

 

[Henaynei]

Another question: [snip] And if Jesus doesn't hate, why does he **** people to hell?

Does one hate their child when they allow them to experience the consequences of their actions?? Such as going to prison because they refuse to be responsible citizens, or shaking with withdrawal because they chose to do drugs, or dying with HIV because they chose to live willfully rather than follow the standards of their family and G-d??

Yeshua does not *SEND* folks to hell - they choose to go - they choose to reject the offer to live in the household of G-d and follow G-d's instructions (house/family rules). If your son refuses to enter your house because he rejects the rules of your home will you tie him up and force him to come in? If the atmosphere of your home is saturated with oxygen and your son refuses to put out his cigarette would you allow him in??

Well, NO sin can survive in the presence of HaShem's perfect Truth (kinda like the combination of oxygen and a cigarette - this is NOT about smoking being a sin, but rather about the cigarette being a source of combustion). That is why we MUST be covered in the Blood of His sacrifice to enter His presence.

G-d did not create the environment of hell - He only created the place. The environment is created byand the fruit of the presence of those who hate and reject Him. Just as the environment of heaven is the product of the presence of G-d.