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- Thread starter copt_man
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Hi there, the Brit Hadasha the New Testament says that the Jews will not accept Yeshua (Jesus) as moshiach untill the end times when he will fulfill the prophesis. As for now the Jews are still bound by their eternal covenant at Sinai
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~
Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~
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simchat_torah
Got Torah?
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I would say the greatest reason the Jews do not accept Y'shua as the Messiah is because of Christian antisemtism and persecution down through the centuries.
In a Jew's eyes, the name "jesus" has been tied to mass slaughterings of the Jews. Jews have been labelled as "christ killers" by the church for so long that the mind of the Jew can not divorce "jesus" from antisemetic persecution.
In a Jew's eyes, the name "jesus" has been tied to mass slaughterings of the Jews. Jews have been labelled as "christ killers" by the church for so long that the mind of the Jew can not divorce "jesus" from antisemetic persecution.
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Thats true achi, ive actually seen people HATING Yeshua not even knowing who he is but all they know is that he was the reason with which the churchs brutal history and even modern day antisemitism, was carried out.
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Expound? Oh I see, well I used to be a member of a few other forums other than this and there I remember a topic saying "Do you hate Jesus?" and alot of people answered back yes for the sheer reason of the brutal history of the church.
Unfortunatly its something that we all must accept, take for example the Crusades, I visited a destroyed villiage overlooking the Sea of Gallilee in Eretz Yisrael once called Gamla, there during the crusades over 8000 women and children lept to their own deaths rather than be force converted to christianity, the men were put to the sword trying to protect them. Thats only a small example, there was the Spanish inquistions too, were it was LAW that Jews had to convert to christianity lest they be killed. And there were times when every country in the entirity of Europe banished the Jews or outlawed the printing of their books etc. Not to forget creating unfounded lies such as the blood libel *rolls eyes* And I dont think I need to mention the Holocaust, which 60 years ago claimed the life of 7 million Jews with the common teaching "They Murdered Jesus"
It pains me to say but there is STILL an element of antisemitism within some parts of the church today and it comes partially from replacement theology and still insisting that it was the Jews at fault for killing Yeshua *shakes head*
It is a blessing however that many churchs are comming out and admitting these horrible atrocities and we must learn from them. As those who fail to learn from the past are inevitably doomed to repeat it.
I hope noone takes offense to this post!
Shalom and G-d bless you all
~Hix~
Unfortunatly its something that we all must accept, take for example the Crusades, I visited a destroyed villiage overlooking the Sea of Gallilee in Eretz Yisrael once called Gamla, there during the crusades over 8000 women and children lept to their own deaths rather than be force converted to christianity, the men were put to the sword trying to protect them. Thats only a small example, there was the Spanish inquistions too, were it was LAW that Jews had to convert to christianity lest they be killed. And there were times when every country in the entirity of Europe banished the Jews or outlawed the printing of their books etc. Not to forget creating unfounded lies such as the blood libel *rolls eyes* And I dont think I need to mention the Holocaust, which 60 years ago claimed the life of 7 million Jews with the common teaching "They Murdered Jesus"
It pains me to say but there is STILL an element of antisemitism within some parts of the church today and it comes partially from replacement theology and still insisting that it was the Jews at fault for killing Yeshua *shakes head*
It is a blessing however that many churchs are comming out and admitting these horrible atrocities and we must learn from them. As those who fail to learn from the past are inevitably doomed to repeat it.
I hope noone takes offense to this post!
Shalom and G-d bless you all
~Hix~
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ShirChadash
A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!
and to think... I just read a new article weeks ago stating that many in Europe wish the Jews would just "let it drop" and stop mentioning the holocaust, because yk, it's over already and Jews are just making a big deal out of nothing anymore nowadays. Wowsa. And the sad thing is that most people think of the Holocaust, yes, when they think of Jewish persecution but most people are barely even aware of the other incidents that Hix described. Ignorance, and apathy.
I am going to stick a link in here but it is in no way for the faint/sensitive of heart... I can't even read much of it but... it was shocking to find and see for myself.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/thumb.htm
Another link of interest,
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers1.htm
editing to add these two I found as well...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers3.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers2.htm
I am going to stick a link in here but it is in no way for the faint/sensitive of heart... I can't even read much of it but... it was shocking to find and see for myself.
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/thumb.htm
Another link of interest,
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers1.htm
editing to add these two I found as well...
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers3.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers2.htm
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Starting with copt_man's question, I have split this from the thread that contained it in Jewish Debates, and moved it to the main MJ forum.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
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Simchat:
I would say the greatest reason the Jews do not accept Y'shua as the Messiah is because of Christian antisemtism and persecution down through the centuries.
Hix:
Thats true achi, ive actually seen people HATING Yeshua not even knowing who he is but all they know is that he was the reason with which the churchs brutal history and even modern day antisemitism, was carried out.
HT:
When Paul, a fellow Jew and former Pharisee approached the Jews in the synogogue on Shabbat, most of them rejected Yeshua as the Messiah and stirred up trouble for Paul every place that he went, and he was flogged many times and almost killed by stoning on one occasion because of this. This is long before any "church", and these accounts are mentioned many times in the Scriptures. Steven addressed his fellow Jews as "stiff necked" shortly before they stoned him to death, because they were angered that he was preaching the Good News, which they rejected.
I would say the greatest reason the Jews do not accept Y'shua as the Messiah is because of Christian antisemtism and persecution down through the centuries.
Hix:
Thats true achi, ive actually seen people HATING Yeshua not even knowing who he is but all they know is that he was the reason with which the churchs brutal history and even modern day antisemitism, was carried out.
HT:
When Paul, a fellow Jew and former Pharisee approached the Jews in the synogogue on Shabbat, most of them rejected Yeshua as the Messiah and stirred up trouble for Paul every place that he went, and he was flogged many times and almost killed by stoning on one occasion because of this. This is long before any "church", and these accounts are mentioned many times in the Scriptures. Steven addressed his fellow Jews as "stiff necked" shortly before they stoned him to death, because they were angered that he was preaching the Good News, which they rejected.
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ShirChadash
A Jew, by the grace and love of God. Come home!
Within about 20 years after Yeshua's death, "tens of thousands" of Jews were believeing Jews in Jerusalem alone. I read this is an excellent source and have been searching for that quote for almost two weeks now... I can't find it, LOL, but I'll keep looking (muses... hm, maybe it was in Edersheim?)
AT any rate, the source cited Scripture showing that there were ten's of thousands of believing Jews in Jerusalem alone, already in a very short time after Yeshua's death. "Ten's of thousands" means at LEAST 20,000 in a city that didn't have an uncommonly huge population in the first place -- so this is a significant number of people -- perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 of the population at the time, I think it stated. Bear with me -- I am going by memory, but I have wanted to post this on a few threads many times.
MANY Jews did receive Yeshua -- but that is not what we are led to believe. (Someone correct me if I am wrong) It was after persecution of the Jews and anti-Jew laws which forced believing Jews to make a sad choice for survival -- the choice to no longer identify with/as Jews, which brought about then the knee-jerk decision of the non-believing Jews themselves at Yavneh to no longer tolerate believing Jews in the Synagogues -- it was then that Jew non-believer in Yeshua and Jew believer in Yeshua were split, divorced from one another and no longer fellowshipped, and it then appeared that "believing Jews" practically ceased to exist. But the common idea is that not many Jews received Yeshua. This is simply untrue. Not many of the RULING Jews received Yeshua -- THAT is true I think, and I think it is obvious why they did not... He was a threat to their status, and He exposed their hypocrisy (they themselves didn't do what they taught the people to do -- in a "do as I say, not as I do" sort of thing) and He taught things that went against the common Jewish connotations.
But blanket statements such as "the Jews rejected Jesus" are first of all... false, and secondly... dangerous in that they lead to blanket judgments in the mind of the hearer.
I can't find it, LOL, but I'll keep looking (muses... hm, maybe it was in Edersheim?) AT any rate, the source cited Scripture showing that there were ten's of thousands of believing Jews in Jerusalem alone, already in a very short time after Yeshua's death. "Ten's of thousands" means at LEAST 20,000 in a city that didn't have an uncommonly huge population in the first place -- so this is a significant number of people -- perhaps 1/4 to 1/5 of the population at the time, I think it stated. Bear with me -- I am going by memory, but I have wanted to post this on a few threads many times.
MANY Jews did receive Yeshua -- but that is not what we are led to believe. (Someone correct me if I am wrong) It was after persecution of the Jews and anti-Jew laws which forced believing Jews to make a sad choice for survival -- the choice to no longer identify with/as Jews, which brought about then the knee-jerk decision of the non-believing Jews themselves at Yavneh to no longer tolerate believing Jews in the Synagogues -- it was then that Jew non-believer in Yeshua and Jew believer in Yeshua were split, divorced from one another and no longer fellowshipped, and it then appeared that "believing Jews" practically ceased to exist. But the common idea is that not many Jews received Yeshua. This is simply untrue. Not many of the RULING Jews received Yeshua -- THAT is true I think, and I think it is obvious why they did not... He was a threat to their status, and He exposed their hypocrisy (they themselves didn't do what they taught the people to do -- in a "do as I say, not as I do" sort of thing) and He taught things that went against the common Jewish connotations.
But blanket statements such as "the Jews rejected Jesus" are first of all... false, and secondly... dangerous in that they lead to blanket judgments in the mind of the hearer.
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