Question

[saintboniface]

Why don't sola scriptura Christians keep the sabbath? Please provide the specific bible passages. Please don't cite passages regarding the law (dietary laws, circumcision laws) unless you can also show that these relate to the Ten Commandments and can show how some commandments remained in effect but the others didn't.

 

[miamited]

Hi saintboniface,

First, let me say that just because I believe that the all and only truth we can know about God comes only from the Scriptures, doesn't in anyway change the fact that I am a sinner.

For me, it boils down to being in the world. The world makes it very, very difficult to keep the Sabbath. I work for a company that provides 24 hour 7 day service and I am almost always scheduled to work a Saturday schedule. I find that it is probably one of the most difficult tasks, to rest on the Sabbath. I'm sure that it was much easier to keep the Sabbath among a people who honored and understood keeping the Sabbath.

Of course, I also understand the old covenant. The works of the old covenant were not meant to provide eternal salvation. You can read it for yourself. There is no promise from God that by keeping the law one would earn eternal life. God clearly explains that if His people, Israel, would keep the laws and commandments which He handed down to them from the mountain of Horeb that He would cause them to prosper and live long lives in this life. Paul makes it clear again that by keeping the law shall no flesh be saved.

I'm trusting wholly in Jesus. That he paid the price for my sin and that his commandment was that I love the Lord my God with all that it is in me and follow that with love for others as I would have for myself. The only promise of eternal life with God found from cover to cover in the Scriptures is given to us in Jesus.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[saintboniface]

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

So you think that the commandment to keep the sabbath is still on the books, so to speak? That we are required to keep it but only through sin we fail to do so? Is that the consensus among Baptists or other sola scriptura Christians?

 

[miamited]

Hi sainboniface,

I can't honestly speak for others. I've grown to be one who isn't much concerned with what others believe, but rather what is the truth. I am, however, not sure that you understood all that I said. We are not required to keep any of the law. The Scriptures are clear that the law was not given to be kept, but rather to show us how much we fail. When I look at the law of the Sabbath I understand how much I have always and continue to fail in striving for some mark of righteousness. And again I will repeat that the law was given unto Israel. It was intended specifically for Israel. I am not under the law, but I am under the conviction and instruction of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said that it is now the Holy Spirit's job to convict of both sin and righteousness.

Perhaps a more thorough explanation of how 'I' understand the Scriptures is in order. I will try to give that here at a later time. But in a very short form, my basic understanding of the Scriptures is that there are two very good reasons that we have the 'old covenant' and the 'new covenant'. The old covenant was given to a people that is identified as Israel in the Scriptures. It was a covenant between God and those people as they came out of Israel and began their work within God's plan of bringing righteousness to the nations of the world through Jesus. As I said, and I encourage you to study and familiarize yourself with all that is written in the books of the law. There is no promise from God to Israel that by keeping the law that He gave them in the Sinai that its purpose was that anyone would gain eternal life by keeping it. God promises that group of people that if they will be faithful to Him and keep all the laws and commandments that He was giving them that their fields would flourish; their women would bear children, that they would have long lives upon the earth.

Leviticus 26:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-6 I am the LORD. " 'If you follow my decrees and are careful to obeyhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-7 my commands, I will send you rainhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-8 in its season,http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-9 and the ground will yield its crops and the trees of the field their fruit.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-10 Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you wanthttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-11 and live in safety in your land.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-12 " 'I will grant peace in the land,http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-13 and you will lie downhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-14 and no one will make you afraid.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 I will remove savage beastshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-16 from the land, and the sword will not pass through your country. You will pursue your enemies,http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 and they will fall by the sword before you. Fivehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19 " 'I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers,http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20 and I will keep my covenanthttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21 with you. You will still be eating last year's harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22 I will put my dwelling placehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-ahttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23 among you, and I will not abhor you.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-24 I will walkhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-25 among you and be your God,http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-26 and you will be my people.http://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/26.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-27

Nothing in there about there being some later heavenly or eternal reward for following His decrees and obeying His commands.

Deuteronomy 7:

Therefore, take care to follow the commands, decrees and laws I give you today. If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the LORD your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers.http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37 He will love you and bless youhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38 and increase your numbers.http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39 He will bless the fruit of your womb,http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40 the crops of your land--your grain, new winehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41 and oilhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42--the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you.http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-43 You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young.http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44 The LORD will keep you free from every disease.http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45 He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt,http://www.biblestudytools.com/deuteronomy/7.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-46 but he will inflict them on all who hate you.

Again, nothing there of some promise of eternal reward.


So, neither do I understand the keeping of the law and commands as any manner by which I may gain or lose eternal life. At most, I can only expect blessings in this life for keeping the law.

But God used the nation of Israel to work out His very great plan of salvation. These people that God set apart and made holy through the observance of the law were going to write down the oracles of God and bring in the Messiah. The one who would make the way for God's promise of eternal life. This is the new covenant. The covenant made through blood sacrifice that men might gain eternal life.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[saintboniface]

Nothing in there about there being some later heavenly or eternal reward for following His decrees and obeying His commands.
So, neither do I understand the keeping of the law and commands as any manner by which I may gain or lose eternal life. At most, I can only expect blessings in this life for keeping the law.

Thank you for the thorough response, especially regarding the passages of God's rewards.

Your analysis doesn't account for this passage however from Matthew 19:

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[miamited]

Thank you for the thorough response, especially regarding the passages of God's rewards.

Your analysis doesn't account for this passage however from Matthew 19:

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Hi saintboniface,

Yes, and even Jesus didn't mention any of the commandments that tell us to love and honor God in this passage, despite the fact that the man asked outright, 'which ones'. Now, why is that? Why would Jesus, in reciting to this man the commandments not start with the first? Why skip over the commandment to keep the Sabbath and not have graven images? Secondly, you will notice, if you continue to read your passage that the man said that he had kept all of the commandments that Jesus mentioned and since this happened in Israel I imagine had Jesus mentioned the other commandments he would have declared to have kept them also. Did Jesus then slap him on the back and say, "Well done my good and faithful servant. You have entered into eternal life"? No, Jesus told him that he had one more thing to master and that was to sell all of his possessions and give to the needy. Friend, that isn't even in the law or the commandments.

Perhaps maybe you don't understand what Jesus was saying here about the law. He was saying to this man exactly what I am saying to you. Not by keeping the law shall any man gain eternal life. For this man, according to the commandments that Jesus explained to him, had kept each one but was still found lacking in earning eternal life.

There is found a great chasm between reading and knowing the Scriptures...and understanding the Scriptures. This fact was proved to the Pharisees, scribes and teachers of the law repeatedly.

God bless you friend.
In Christ, Ted

 

[98cwitr]

Why don't sola scriptura Christians keep the sabbath? Please provide the specific bible passages. Please don't cite passages regarding the law (dietary laws, circumcision laws) unless you can also show that these relate to the Ten Commandments and can show how some commandments remained in effect but the others didn't.

Romans 14:5-8
New International Version (NIV)
5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. [...]8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

We are not under the OT Law, but under the Law of the Spirit, which is two commandments

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

 

[saintboniface]

Hi saintboniface,
Perhaps maybe you don't understand what Jesus was saying here about the law. He was saying to this man exactly what I am saying to you. Not by keeping the law shall any man gain eternal life. For this man, according to the commandments that Jesus explained to him, had kept each one but was still found lacking in earning eternal life.

There is found a great chasm between reading and knowing the Scriptures...and understanding the Scriptures. This fact was proved to the Pharisees, scribes and teachers of the law repeatedly.

Thank you.
Jesus didn't mention having any other gods besides him. Does that imply that we need not obey this commandment?

Is there only one objective interpretation of the bible?

 

[saintboniface]

Romans 14:5-8
Hebrews 8:13

Thank you.

 

[98cwitr]

Thank you.

Sure thing

 

[South Bound]

Why don't sola scriptura Christians keep the sabbath? Please provide the specific bible passages. Please don't cite passages regarding the law (dietary laws, circumcision laws) unless you can also show that these relate to the Ten Commandments and can show how some commandments remained in effect but the others didn't.

Wow. Always interesting when somebody asks a question and then puts restrictions on the answers people are allowed to give.

That's usually a good sign that they're not looking for a sincere dialogue, but just to harp on somebody else's beliefs.

Let's start with this: How do you define "sola scriptura"? Do you know the difference between sola scriptura and solo scriptura?

 

[abysmul]

Colossians 2:13-17

English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

 

[miamited]

Thank you.
Jesus didn't mention having any other gods besides him. Does that imply that we need not obey this commandment?

Is there only one objective interpretation of the bible?

Hi saintboniface,

We need to strive to obey all the commandments given to us. Jesus did say to love the Lord your God with all that is you and he told us that the Holy Spirit would now convict of sin and righteousness. If you are a born again believer and you don't come under conviction for worshipping some other God, then yes, that would be ok for you. However, I don't think that's going to happen. The Holy Spirit will do his job if you are a born again child of God. Now, if you are not a born again child of God, then all bets are off. You can do whatever seems right to you because it isn't going to matter in the end anyway.

Yes, I believe that there is only one correct interpretation of the Scriptures. When Jesus spoke in parables he told his disciples that he did so that the truth would still be hidden from those without ears to hear. God's word is not some rule book like our constitution that is thrown into court and then left for some to decide that a particular passage probably meant this or that. It is the truth. God wrote it to us through His Holy Spirit and He intends for us to understand it, but again one must rely on and have the Holy Spirit to gain that understanding.

Now, yes, our teachers make a living out of reading a passage to us and then telling us what they think that passage was intended to mean for us and anyone who has visited a few congregations will find that the truth, in reality, is bantered about and said to mean this by one man and that by another. Just look at the many interpretations of the Genesis account of the creation. However, even though we men may squabble and discuss what is the truth about a piece of Scripture, 'the truth' is that God caused it to be written to reveal to us a particular truth.

Just as you have responded to me that the discussion that Jesus had with the rich young ruler means that we should be keeping the law to attain righteousness, I don't think that's what that passage is saying at all and gave my explanation as to why it wouldn't be. Now, here's a fact that is faithful and true. The account was written; the discussion did happen, and Jesus was making a specific point to this young man about gaining eternal life. After all, that was the man's question. So, what is the truth as to why Jesus said these things to this young man in answer to his query.

While we here on the earth after the fact can sit around the camp fire and say to one another, "well, it means this to me," and another says, "oh, but it means this to me." The truth is that Jesus was making a specific and particular point to that young man about gaining eternal life. What was it? I honestly don't believe that Jesus expected that young man to turn around and scratch his head as he walked away saying to himself, "well, he could have meant this or he could have meant that."

So, yes, as far as I am concerned there really is only one correct interpretation of what any particular passage of the Scriptures was given to mean to the reader.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[saintboniface]

Wow. Always interesting when somebody asks a question and then puts restrictions on the answers people are allowed to give.
That's usually a good sign that they're not looking for a sincere dialogue, but just to harp on somebody else's beliefs.
Let's start with this: How do you define "sola scriptura"? Do you know the difference between sola scriptura and solo scriptura?

I only stipulate for the purpose of speeding and directing answers that are on 'all fours' to the question.

I understand sola scriptura to mean that all truths are found in the bible alone. Everything one needs to know to obtain salvation can be found in the bible. I don't know what solo scriptura means.

 

[saintboniface]

Colossians 2:13-17

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

I think we have a winner.

 

[South Bound]

I only stipulate for the pupose of speeding and directing answers that are on 'all fours' to the question.

That hasn't been my experience. It's been my experience that when somebody does this, they're trying to narrow the source of their opponent's answer so as to elicit the answer they most want to hear.

I understand sola scriptura to mean that all truths are found in the bible alone.

OK. Then you're starting from a false premise. What you're describing is solo scripture, not sola scriptura.

Solo scriptura refers to the exclusivity of the Bible and is not correct. Sola scriptura refers to the primacy of scripture in it's authority over all other sources.

A very common mistake and the reason more and more Reformed believers are beginning to refer to prima scriptura, as opposed to sola scriptura, to avoid that confusion.

Everything one needs to know to obtain salvation can be found in the bible.

Well, that much is true, but that would be the sufficiency of scripture, not sola or solo scriptura.

I don't know what solo scriptura means.

It means scripture alone, to the exclusion of all other sources and authorities.

 

[miamited]

Hi southbound,

Well, count me as a 'solo scriptura' believer.

God bless you all.
In Christ, Ted

 

[saintboniface]

From the passage(s) shown in a post above I am satisfied that it can at least be argued that the Sabbath requirement was terminated. Thanks.

 

[South Bound]

From the passage(s) shown in a post above I am satisfied that it can at least be argued that the Sabbath requirement was terminated. Thanks.

Not terminated, fulfilled. Sounds similar, but the difference is very, very important.

Hi southbound,

Well, count me as a 'solo scriptura' believer.

First of all, let me say that I enjoy your posts very much.

Second, I appreciate where you're coming from, but I don't believe solo scriptura is Biblically tenable. Even the Bible tells us that there are other authorities, they're just subject to the Bible.

 

[98cwitr]

Can we let this man be?