Question

[SkyBlade]

I've been pondering this for weeks. God loves everybody, even sinners. So how come in Malachi it says:

.... "Was not Esau Jacob's brother?" the Lord says. "Yet I have loved Jacob, but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals." (Malachi 1:2-3, NIV version)

Since God loves everyone, why did he hate Esau? I am confused and slightly worried. And by the way, I am not saying I doubt God's love for us. I'm just puzzled at these verses. It'd be great if someone could answer my question, even if you're just making an assumption.

 

[hedrick]

The Word commentary says: 'It is best to take Malachi’s use of the terms “love” and “hate” in vv 2 and 3 as covenant language. When Yahweh says, “I have loved Jacob,” he means, “I chose Jacob,” and when he says, “I hated Esau,” he means, “I did not choose Esau.”'

However the later text is pretty clear that God has judged Edom.

 

[shturt678]

Good question ... Mal.3:2 ... happen to "love" the minor prophets ,... "And I hated Esau" form the Hebrew aspect ... all Hebrew to me, lol with u, "hate" is not to be weakened down but, in the context here, be the antithesis of "agape." So once we define "agape," LXX for example only so that i can bring agape aboard: the ardent desire to understand for a higher divine purpose, i.e., the object understood for a higher divine intelligent purpose ... Note back in Genesis 27 God blessed Esau and gave not only a prophecy, but a blessing, not a curse ... then in chapter 36, God shows his divine grace by making Esau a great nation. My point, in this sense, God agapes all for, but agapes less those he hated ... i learned long ago ... "love" will not plug in here and definitely not in the N.T. ... hope this helps ... heartfully open to refute on any point.

 

[pshun2404]

I think we have a category error here. This is not speaking, in context, about an individual here but about those people called Esau and those people called Jacob. As for the individuals, God in His foreknowing (though He was not the cause) knew how Jacob would end up and how Esau would end up. He knew Esau would reject His Lordship and His will for Esau...

Now secondly, though it is commonly thought to be so, God does not love everybody in the sense we humans might think or define. His love is shown that in His promise of a redeemer (who turned out to be Jesus Christ who was unknown in the time of Esau and Jacob) He was saying He would provide a way to escape the curse of the violated law (which began in the Lord's command to Adam and Eve, added to in the time of Noah, then through Abraham, etc., such that if any would place their faith in Him (the Lord's promised redeemer) and obey the Lord as their Lord (not insisting to be a lord unto themselves - Genesis 3:5) they could be saved. Esau proved himself (and his offspring as well, with few exceptions) that they would have no part in this. They did what was right in their own eyes (which God cannot allow) and even compromised and came against His faithful ones continually.

So I see no problem here whatsoever.

Paul

 

[football5680]

Hate sounds strong but I believe it was just saying he preferred Jacob over Esau. Before they were born God already said the older will serve the younger and at that point what could Esau have done for god to hate him? Nothing because he wasn't even born.

 

[SkyBlade]

Thankee to each and every one of you for your replies; I appreciate it ^.^

 

[SkyBlade]

Also, it says more than once in Proverbs that God detests (hates) men who (insert sins here). So is he saying that God didn't choose them?

One other thing....how come people say if you invite Christ into your heart you're saved for all eternity but in the Bible it says things like "If your eye causes you to sin gouge it out and throw it away. It's better to lose one part of your body than your whole body go to Hell" and "Men who do this (referring to a sin) certainly won't reach the Kingdom of Heaven." And I remember there was one part of the Bible where God blotted out the name of somebody in his book....

 

[shturt678]

To pshun2404 regarding Mal.1:2, my rendition: "....and I agaped Jacob, v.3 And I hated Esau...." maybe your correct as context does rule .... Accordingly Jacob became the heir of the promise, and Esau lost this blessing. This attitude on the part of God towards Jacob and Esau, and towards the nations springing from them, is described by Malachi here at Ma.1. Again as i said these verbs must not be weakened down into loving more and loving less as in the ancient Greek contextually here.

My point is we don't really have a category issue here in the context of both individuals as the example dealing with the nations springing froth from them or do we still???

 

[mandelduke]

Also, it says more than once in Proverbs that God detests (hates) men who (insert sins here). So is he saying that God didn't choose them?

One other thing....how come people say if you invite Christ into your heart you're saved for all eternity but in the Bible it says things like "If your eye causes you to sin gouge it out and throw it away. It's better to lose one part of your body than your whole body go to Hell" and "Men who do this (referring to a sin) certainly won't reach the Kingdom of Heaven." And I remember there was one part of the Bible where God blotted out the name of somebody in his book....

New covenant, Old covenant that is what you need to be studying.

 

[x141]

The God at the beginning of the bible is not our father, but the perception of our father, given to us by the tree we were to die to. Jesus revealed the Father and the great love, in truth, that he loved us with, from before the beginning, wherein we are now seated, and our life now hid.

 

[SkyBlade]

Thankee everybody for your answers