Question

[heart of peace]

How do you teach your children to separate the sin from the person in order to judge the sin as sinful without hating/condescending the actual sinner? More specifically, how do you handle teaching a child about homosexuality when the child lives next door to two homosexual couples?

 

[buzuxi02]

You wouldnt like my answer because i havent been infected by the west's political correctness propaganda nor by the heretical dogma of 'tolerance', so ill take a pass with this one.

 

[choirfiend]

Well, does God hate him even though he's sinned (If he's at the age when he is confessing, he should understand that he does sin, that God forgives it when you repent, and that God loves him even when he is sinning)? I would say everyone has struggles, everyone has temptations to sin, and that some people try hard to resist and some people decide to not resist and end up telling themselves that it's ok. And that's not a reason to hate anyone, but to pray that they will someday find it easier to resist the temptation, just like we all work hard at our passions and try to resist them. Also would mention that we always see ourselves as the first among sinners, so we are not in a position to judge anyone. How old is your kid again?

 

[heart of peace]

He's 6 and becoming aware that they aren't "roommates." This has been an ongoing struggle we have been facing. choirfiend, I like your approach, thanks for sharing. I admit that I am becoming weary of this struggle.

 

[MariaRegina]

That is a difficult situation.

He is aware that they are not "roommates."
What has he seen or heard? Poor child.

Edited to add:
Children (and adults) need to guard their senses: eyes, ears, nose, touch, and taste.
My priest said the best way to start this training with children is in the grocery store:
(1) avoid looking at those sensational magazines
(2) avoid looking at the candy bar and snack sections (and do not let the child entice you to buy these things impulsely)
(3) avoid listening in to conversations of strangers
On the other hand, if the neighbors are open about their love making, and the child is being exposed to this sinful lifestyle, then perhaps it is time to move.
One of my friends had to sell her house because her neighbors were totally unreasonable and made life miserable for her.
When the police became involved, then she knew that it was time to move on.

 

[SoulFoodEater]

I would have to suggest that you must listen to this audiobook by St Dorotheos of Gaza. He was a very venerable and wise saint of our Orthodox Church. His name literally means "Gift of God", and his rare writings were discovered by Divine providence.

This book is called "Practical Teachings On The Christian Life", and the lesson is lesson 6 "That We Should Not Judge Our Neighbor":



Part 1:

YouTube - Holy Orthodox Teaching: Lesson 6: That We Should Not Judge Our Neighbor. St Dorotheos of Gaza#.1/2

Part 2:

YouTube - Holy Orthodox Teaching: Lesson 6: That We Should Not Judge Our Neighbor. St Dorotheos of Gaza#.2/2



Now. We must take into consideration that St Dorotheos is speaking to monks in a Cenobion - i.e - monks living in a large community, where they were all "brothers". So we must take this into consideration.

In those lessons, St Dorotheos does a very good job at telling us how to cover over other people faults, and about love.

You're right Choirfiend, we aren't the judge, God is the judge, and only God knows the person who sins better than we do. Only God can judge the sinner and knows what to exact to him for his sin.



The kids must know about the Fall of Man, that people are in an unnatural condition because of it, and that they need to live in Jesus Christ in order to get normal again, because He died on the Cross for us to renew our Fallen nature.


This is Lesson One of St Dorotheos, it teaches very well about the Fall and Redemption of Man. You should watch it (I should watch it again too),


YouTube - THE PROBLEM & CURE FOR HUMANITY #.1/3

 

[rusmeister]

Not talking about it as much as possible is the best bet. he is only six; there are some limits on what 6-yr olds can understand and that may help for a time. It seems to me that the main time to talk is when he raises questions himself, and limit answers to the maximum extent possible. What isn't right is that your child's innocence should be taken away because of what neighbors are doing. It may become necessary to follow M-R's advice and move.

Can you talk to your priest at all?

Obviously, if he MUST learn things, even at an inappropriate time, he's going to have to learn the same things that we have to. But that is truly an evil day that ought to be put off as long as possible.

 

[heart of peace]

We are definitely looking and open to the idea of moving. I'm praying that maybe they'll move instead. I did talk to my priest and he'll be arranging to come by for another blessing of our home. He mentioned that we should have notified the police that day (which I considered in passing but didn't give it much thought).

The world is just such an evil place, it's hard to see any goodness in it via people/society.

 

[SoulFoodEater]

We are definitely looking and open to the idea of moving. I'm praying that maybe they'll move instead. I did talk to my priest and he'll be arranging to come by for another blessing of our home. He mentioned that we should have notified the police that day (which I considered in passing but didn't give it much thought).

The world is just such an evil place, it's hard to see any goodness in it via people/society.

If you're feeling down, this might help. Listen to this podcast of an audiobook of Elder Thaddaus of Serbia "Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives". He guided the Serbian people through very dark times and is a specialist in treating depression, anxiety and the like. He taught us how to acquire peace. St Dorotheos of Gaza also said that maintaining our inner peace is half of our spiritual life.

YouTube - OUR THOUGHTS DETERMINE OUR LIVES: Writings Of Elder Thaddaus Of Serbia

Also, hear what St Issac of Syria said,

"If you are yearning for purity of heart and peace of mind, root out from your heart the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, which God commanded our first ancestors not to eat from, lest they should die."

 

[Monica child of God 1]

When my son first learned about the existence of homosexuality, I told him that it was a way of living that was "not pleasing to God," but that there were a lot of things that we do that were not pleasing to God too. I also really emphasized that we were supposed to love and care about all people even if they were doing things that God doesn't like. That fit into a framework that we were already establishing that being a Christian means loving all humans, not judging and forgiving people their trespasses if we want to be forgiven.

some years ago I took my kids to see the movie Bend it Like Beckham. There is a character in the movie that comes out of the closet to his best friend. I thought it might go over my son's head, but he leaned over to me and said, "Isn't that not pleasing to God?" I said, "Yes, let's talk about it later." That showed me that the framework I had given him was something he could use to understand homosexuality.

M.

 

[MariaRegina]

We are definitely looking and open to the idea of moving. I'm praying that maybe they'll move instead. I did talk to my priest and he'll be arranging to come by for another blessing of our home. He mentioned that we should have notified the police that day (which I considered in passing but didn't give it much thought).

The world is just such an evil place, it's hard to see any goodness in it via people/society.

My prayers.

When people do evil things in the sight of children ...

I am praying for them because Christ said that it would be better that a millstone be tied around their necks ....

 

[Monica child of God 1]

He mentioned that we should have notified the police that day (which I considered in passing but didn't give it much thought).

I'm confused. Were they having intercourse in the open or something?

M.

 

[rusmeister]

I'm confused. Were they having intercourse in the open or something?

M.

Might have been kissing. One reason why it really is not right for even married couples to be "making out" in public. In a society that valued decency any form of genuine flouting would be sufficient to appeal to law, if appeal to morality did nothing.

Lot lived in such a society (that tolerated and probably encouraged such behavior) for quite some time. But it's clear, too, that he was messed up by that surrounding influence (I mean, offering his own daughters - who got their 'revenge' later...). It's difficult to see how an adult - even one trying to live a holy life - can be unaffected by that degree of moral collapse. I don't see how children can survive it unscathed at all. Even in our mostly fundamental Baptist household, my unbelieving father had books with immoral descriptions that I got a hold of which left marks on my whole life and contributed to tremendous damage in my life.

I'm not even talking about judging other sinners. I'm talking about the doing the best we can to protect our children.

 

[heart of peace]

Monica, no they were not having intercourse in public (were you joking with that comment?). I have not shared all the details here purposefully, hence your confusion. Suffice to say that my priest would not have recommended calling the police simply for two lesbians kissing. The situation definitely warranted a visit from the police in hindsight.

 

[heart of peace]

It's difficult to see how an adult - even one trying to live a holy life - can be unaffected by that degree of moral collapse. I don't see how children can survive it unscathed at all.

This is a very good point and one that I am really trying to understand.

 

[Monica child of God 1]

Monica, no they were not having intercourse in public (were you joking with that comment?). I have not shared all the details here purposefully, hence your confusion. Suffice to say that my priest would not have recommended calling the police simply for two lesbians kissing. The situation definitely warranted a visit from the police in hindsight.

No, I wasn't joking. I couldn't think of anything related to their sexuality that would be something to call the police about. Sometimes people (especially young people) do crazy things in semi-private areas.

M.

 

[heart of peace]

Ahh, I see, thanks for clarifying. The comment about calling the police pertained more to their behavior versus their sexual orientation. I really don't want to go into detail because it's difficult for me to maintain that delicate balance I asked in the OP. That actually just helped me remember something; I think that the best way to teach a child how to do those things (hate the sin but love the sinner idea) is to model it for the child! I forgot that since I'm emotionally and spiritually impacted by things in the situation and I needed some sort of outlet (hence posting here).

 

[MariaRegina]

My continual prayers.

Have you recommended that your child not listen to or watch these neighbors?

My friend planted fast tall growing trees (Italian Cyprus) and installed those double paned glass windows to keep out sound. Other people have installed those glass tiles to prevent sound and sights from permeating the house.

On our front bank, we also have five Italian Cyprus, which serve as great wind breakers. Since we have high winds, we have shrubs planted all around our house. These trees and shrubs have provided great protection to our house and given us privacy. Also along our south bank, we planted Silver Berries, which are very hardy. These mini trees/shrubs have edible berries (3/4 to one inch long) with tiny silvery spots so that in the moonlight, the leaves and the fruit take on a beautiful silvery appearance. However, some of these shrubs have nasty spikes and thorns which deter 2 legged prowlers. Silver Berries, an evergreen, are also highly resistant to flames. As a test, my husband took a torch to them and the leaves and branches did not burn. Even the dried leaves did not burn.

 

[Blonde]

It's a good opportunity to glorify God's mercy......Children understand the simplest idea. They (the neighbor) need God's mercy just like you or I. So it becomes easy to pray that God have mercy on me, a sinner and God have mercy on them. We are no different in the fact that we all need God's mercy.

 

[choirfiend]

It's a good opportunity to glorify God's mercy......Children understand the simplest idea. They (the neighbor) need God's mercy just like you or I. So it becomes easy to pray that God have mercy on me, a sinner and God have mercy on them. We are no different in the fact that we all need God's mercy.

Welcome to TAW, blonde!