Question

[Coralie]

Yeah, but i mean how do people react to you?

I mean, its not like Church of England or Catholic here, i mean, there doesnt seem to be a stigma attached.

sorry if im being ignorant, but i mean in practise, how is somebody of a non-traditionally orthodox heritage treated?

I am a blonde, blue-eyed, tall, very pale-skinned, Nordic type. I know what you're saying; what if I stand out and people make me feel uncomfortable?

OK. I'm assuming you look like your standard Anglo-Saxon: pale-skinned, narrow jaw, sharp nose, brownish hair, pale eye colour. Seriously, what will happen is this (if anything):

1. People will assume you're Greek, or half-Greek, or a quarter Greek. You would be surprised how many people who identify as ethnically Greek are blonde and pale-skinned. About the only colouring that is rare is redhead-with-freckles.

2. OR... people will assume you are Russian or Ukrainian or some such. There's room for practically every ethnic "type" in the "traditionally" Orthodox nations.

3. OR... someone will ask you what your ethnicity is, react with interest (either mild or enthusiastic) when you say you're not Greek/from an Orthodox nation, ask what you are, and then carry on the conversation naturally.

The only time it will be a big deal is if you try very, very hard to let everyone know you thought they would be obnoxious and dreadful to you on account of your ethnicity. And even then, at least some people would understand you apprehension to an extent.

And as you know... England is a cosmopolitan place, even in the smaller towns. Orthodox parishes tend to be jammed with all sorts of immigrant communities. You need not feel out of place.

I mean i dont know where an Orthodox Church is here, but what would the feeling be to storm in through the doors, to have an entire Church of Greeks look around at you?

You're talking about the Greeks here. Honestly? You are going to be practically the first one there anyway. If the service starts at 9, and you get there at 9:15, there will be 2 grandmas, a few chanters, the priest and the deacon. Not very intimidating. If you go to the cathedral, it will probably be a biggish place.

You'll quietly take your place in a pew, maybe spend a couple minutes looking around in wonder at the icons and/or frescoes, and then start following in the service book while enjoying the chanting.

When look around at 11:30, just as Communion is about to begin, you'll realise that 2,000 people have gathered in that selfsame church. The pews (and aisles, and porch, and out the side doors) are heaving with people of all ethnicities, their kids, their infants, their blind grandfathers, all bowing and crossing themselves at different times to each other, some kneeling, some singing with the chanters, some repeating the entire service in their own language as it goes along, some enraptured in prayer, others venerating icons right up there practically on the altar, some shushing children, some going out for cigarettes halfway through, others prostrated in the aisle, etc. At least, that's what it's like in my (Greek Orthodox) Church.

You should go!

The Orthodox Church (in my experience anyway) is the ultimate in disorganized religion. They're barely making it in before the Eucharist; they haven't got time to wonder who you are! Anyway, they'll have time to ask you at coffee hour if they want to. You need not feel self-conscious; no-one is wondering why you're there.

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

The nice thing about being Orthodox (well, A nice thing) is that even if I were at a service done in Japanese, I would know what is happening for the most part at almost all times. The liturgy becomes a part of you. It's the thing that remains constant even though my emotion run the whole gammit. It follows it's own constant guide, the calendar, that takes me through the Church's experience in a year. From the excitement and exuberance of Pascha to the sadness, regret and hope of Holy week.

Not that it's not nice or important to have it in one's language at some point... but while Church is intellectual, it is above all spiritual and supra-intellectual. If the sermon was a dud... that's okay because you were in Christ's very presence and you were immersed in a place of prayer.

Josh

This reminds me of the conversion story of a friend of mine.

My friend was born and raised Italian Catholic, grew up in an Central Jersey Italian family, and all was right with the world.

Then he started dating a nice Polish girl who happened to be Orthodox.

She was attending a Belarussian Orthodox parish where the entire service was done in Church Slavonic. Not a single word in English.

She invited him to join her at church one Sunday.

My friend said from the moment he walked in the church he knew God wanted him there, and that this is where he was meant to be. It didn't matter that he couldn't understand a single word of the Liturgy; He knew the Orthodox Church was meant for him.

He converted, they married, and they now have two teenage sons.

And they "lived happily ever after."

 

[TheCunctator]

When I attended the Orthodox church by my house, I had a similar apprehension in terms of being the foreigner in the sanctuary. It was originally founded as a Russian Orthodox parish (though now OCA), but everyone there was smiling, happy to meet a new face. They're actually interested and elated if someone from a non-Orthodox background is interested in the Orthodox Church.

Try going with a friend maybe?

 

[E.C.]

You certainly should feel at home at a slav-american parish. At my parish, you can tell when it's Pascha or a funeral of a slav because there is a sea of black leather across the entire Church. I don't know what it is with slav's and their black leather... but they love it! LOL

Josh

I can't speak for the Slavs, but for me I watched "Happy Days" a few times as a kid so I blame The Fonz!


The ROCOR cathedral in Seattle has since become very Russian since Communism fell which inevitably meant many Slavs moved there. The first time I visited the cathedral every Slavic male that was between 16 and 57 and not clergy wore: black or khaki slacks, a collared shirt and a black leather jacket. I couldn't help but look around and think to myself, "My people! I am home!"

 

[All Englands Skies]

I am a blonde, blue-eyed, tall, very pale-skinned, Nordic type. I know what you're saying; what if I stand out and people make me feel uncomfortable?

OK. I'm assuming you look like your standard Anglo-Saxon: pale-skinned, narrow jaw, sharp nose, brownish hair, pale eye colour. Seriously, what will happen is this (if anything):

1. People will assume you're Greek, or half-Greek, or a quarter Greek. You would be surprised how many people who identify as ethnically Greek are blonde and pale-skinned. About the only colouring that is rare is redhead-with-freckles.

2. OR... people will assume you are Russian or Ukrainian or some such. There's room for practically every ethnic "type" in the "traditionally" Orthodox nations.

3. OR... someone will ask you what your ethnicity is, react with interest (either mild or enthusiastic) when you say you're not Greek/from an Orthodox nation, ask what you are, and then carry on the conversation naturally.

The only time it will be a big deal is if you try very, very hard to let everyone know you thought they would be obnoxious and dreadful to you on account of your ethnicity. And even then, at least some people would understand you apprehension to an extent.

And as you know... England is a cosmopolitan place, even in the smaller towns. Orthodox parishes tend to be jammed with all sorts of immigrant communities. You need not feel out of place.



You're talking about the Greeks here. Honestly? You are going to be practically the first one there anyway. If the service starts at 9, and you get there at 9:15, there will be 2 grandmas, a few chanters, the priest and the deacon. Not very intimidating. If you go to the cathedral, it will probably be a biggish place.

You'll quietly take your place in a pew, maybe spend a couple minutes looking around in wonder at the icons and/or frescoes, and then start following in the service book while enjoying the chanting.

When look around at 11:30, just as Communion is about to begin, you'll realise that 2,000 people have gathered in that selfsame church. The pews (and aisles, and porch, and out the side doors) are heaving with people of all ethnicities, their kids, their infants, their blind grandfathers, all bowing and crossing themselves at different times to each other, some kneeling, some singing with the chanters, some repeating the entire service in their own language as it goes along, some enraptured in prayer, others venerating icons right up there practically on the altar, some shushing children, some going out for cigarettes halfway through, others prostrated in the aisle, etc. At least, that's what it's like in my (Greek Orthodox) Church.

You should go!

The Orthodox Church (in my experience anyway) is the ultimate in disorganized religion. They're barely making it in before the Eucharist; they haven't got time to wonder who you are! Anyway, they'll have time to ask you at coffee hour if they want to. You need not feel self-conscious; no-one is wondering why you're there.

So its nothing like the Anglican Church then, In right on time, sharp?

 

[Antony in Tx]

So its nothing like the Anglican Church then, In right on time, sharp?

My goodness, no! Usually we have at our small to medium size parish about five people at the start of Orthros, about twenty at the start of the liturgy, about fifty by Small Entrance (before the reading of the scipture and the Gospel), and about 150 by the time Communion is given. We are not kidding when we say Orthodox Chrisitanity is great for people who don't like organized religion, because we are VERY disorganized at times.

 

[TheCunctator]

So its nothing like the Anglican Church then, In right on time, sharp?

Not in the slightest! Expect people to be ridiculously tardy. The Divine Liturgy will be of course on time, but not the worshipers.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Try to be on time though - just because everyone else is lazy doesn't mean we should be

Andrew is the sacristan and even so we get there halfway through Orthros at the earliest usually...but then my priest is insane and starts it at 7:30.

 

[All Englands Skies]

Try to be on time though - just because everyone else is lazy doesn't mean we should be

Andrew is the sacristan and even so we get there halfway through Orthros at the earliest usually...but then my priest is insane and starts it at 7:30.

Im English, i'd be on time, but i expect a line/que

 

[TheCunctator]

I don't know if this helps at all but I seem to recall that the Coptic Orthodox Church seems to have a large following in Britain and apparently a lot of churches are English-speaking.

Coptic Centre, UK
British Orthodox Church (Coptic) - OrthodoxWiki

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Coptic Orthodox =/= Eastern Orthodox. The Copts are part of the OO, which split off at Chalcedon. But we are on better terms with them than we are with say, the Catholics

 

[Anhelyna]

Put out a call for Anglian

 

[Kreikkalainen]

Well, some (most?) of the russian churches in the UK are at least partly english speaking. The antiochians too, except their cathedral in London. Sometimes they can be found in places as weird and unexpected as Armagh (of all places). I can have a look and see if I can spot something that looks like the english-speaking convert-trap (it's a joke folks, don't freak out ) kind of parish around your area, if you feel a foreign language in the service will be a repulsive experience. The russian parish in Cambridge is definitely one, but a bit further away.

 

[TheCunctator]

Coptic Orthodox =/= Eastern Orthodox. The Copts are part of the OO, which split off at Chalcedon. But we are on better terms with them than we are with say, the Catholics

I know, but I thought it might have been an option. Aren't the two on the verge of being in full communion with one another?

 

[Dorothea]

Im English, i'd be on time, but i expect a line/que

My dad converted to Orthodoxy (my mom is Greek Orthodox) back in 1997 (after more than 30 years of marriage) (the same day my husband was chrismated into the Church). He was a military judge/lawyer for 30 years, and has English/German roots. So you combine military service and those roots, he HATES to be late anywhere. He was grumpy when we were one minute late to Liturgy when he and mom were visiting a couple weeks ago.

 

[Kreikkalainen]

The Russian Orthodox Church in the East Midlands

These guys probably use english. If you click on "contacts", all names look english. They seem to be present in both Nottingham and Derby.

 

[Etsi]

My goodness, no! Usually we have at our small to medium size parish about five people at the start of Orthros, about twenty at the start of the liturgy, about fifty by Small Entrance (before the reading of the scipture and the Gospel), and about 150 by the time Communion is given. We are not kidding when we say Orthodox Chrisitanity is great for people who don't like organized religion, because we are VERY disorganized at times.

Oh my! That is so true...and yet, seem to accomplish plenty!

It's called running on Greek Time

 

[E.C.]

I know, but I thought it might have been an option. Aren't the two on the verge of being in full communion with one another?

Eh... yes and no.

The best way that I can put it is this: if there are any two Christian groups out of all the 35,000+ of them that have any real possibility of unification or reunification than the two are the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Patriarchs and theologians on both sides have met and said "hey, we agree on XYZ" but a larger part of the equation, in my opinion, is the prejudiced mentality that still plagues both sides. Many Orthodox will point and say "They are Monophysite heretics! Avoid them with a 30 foot pole!" while many Copts and Armenians may say "They are Nestorian heretics! Avoid them with a 30 foot pole!" when the reality is they are not Monophysite and we are not Nestorian.

Personally, I think that if/when reunion is to happen than the soonest would be within 200 years.

 

[Antony in Tx]

...but then my priest is insane and starts it at 7:30.

Fr. Vasily says, "YES...IS OUTRAGE! Starting at 7:30 when every good Christian is up at 2am praying!"

 

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Many Orthodox will point and say "They are Monophysite heretics! Avoid them with a 30 foot pole!" while many Copts and Armenians may say "They are Nestorian heretics! Avoid them with a 30 foot pole!" when the reality is they are not Monophysite and we are not Nestorian.

Perhaps we could resolve the disputes with a jousting competition?