Question......

[IamRedeemed]

Being you are a professed unbeliever, I do not believe you
are in a position to decipher much less dictate to a believer the
difference between "religiosity and relationship".

You are however entitled to your opinion.

This is semantic horse doody... you are clearly a person of religion whether you choose to admit that or not. You clearly follow a doctrine laid down for you by interpretation of the bible. You believe and worship and I think that is a fairly common definition of the religion, religiosity. Would you prefer I used 'belief system' instead? The point is... many of your beliefs, are based on things that have little supporting evidence...
Many injustices are done in the name of beliefs... your mistreatment and feelings about the GLBT community are another example of this. ...
this is why we feel so little love from our christian brethren.... (to get back to the topic at hand)

 

[jamielindas]

It isn't a "brand". There is only ONE truth.

See, this is what you don't understand because you've probably never known anything other than this brand.
You feel it is the ONE truth, but others feel the same way about their religion/beliefs. There is very little objective evidence to prove that any of these are the ONE truth over the other. If the measure is the number of believers or the conviction of the believers or the number of converted believers, your ONE truth still doesn't win out. (Aside from the fact that those are TERRIBLE measurements of truth)
You are blind to the facts about the belief systems of the world because your belief system teachers to be.

 

[jamielindas]

Being you are a professed unbeliever, I do not believe you
are in a position to decipher much less dictate to a believer the
difference between "religiosity and relationship".

You are however entitled to your opinion.

The word isn't the point, but what is it that you would like to call your form of worship/belief/spirituality/religion/relationship with god?

So is that the answer to the question of the OP? Is that why we feel no christian love? because it's ok to treat those who don't share your beliefs as lesser people?
Do you dislike me more because I'm gay or because I'm an atheist?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Mighty presumptuous of you if I do declare in more ways than one. And I'll leave it at that.

Click here

See, this is what you don't understand because you've probably never known anything other than this brand.
You feel it is the ONE truth, but others feel the same way about their religion/beliefs. There is very little objective evidence to prove that any of these are the ONE truth over the other. If the measure is the number of believers or the conviction of the believers or the number of converted believers, your ONE truth still doesn't win out. (Aside from the fact that those are TERRIBLE measurements of truth)
You are blind to the facts about the belief systems of the world because your belief system teachers to be.

 

[jamielindas]

Mighty presumptuous of you if I do declare in more ways than one. And I'll leave it at that.

Click here

Please clarify... which part was presumptuous? And how did what I just read address that?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Oh how silly of me, I should have guessed you and I might not be talking about the same thing.
I am not speaking of the words themselves, but rather their definitions.

Didn't you profess to be an atheist?
If so, that would explain why it would be impossible in your current condition
for you to possess "Christian" love.

And love itself can have very different meanings.
Some people equate love with embracing everything about another individual
with complete devotion. But yet what I find more often than not, is that those
who proselytize such hardly practice what they preach.

Others know there is a difference between loving people and
embracing all that they contend for. In other words to some, it would be
considered hating, if others vote no on the gay marriage bill.
Others are not entitled to their first amendment rights or rights to what
their children are exposed to in schools at age 5 etc etc ad infinitum.

I have seen homosexuals here, treat those who have been changed and say so,
with utter contempt and hostility as well as rejection. Most of the behavior displayed
here by those who are homosexual claiming to be Christian or Atheist really has
not shown to bear a difference from my point of view, and are completely hostile
to those of us who believe that the Bible is the Word of God and do our best to live
by it. We are loathed and despised and persecuted, accused of worshiping the
Bible and all kinds of other wacky accusations. So, if you feel persecuted,
you truly are not alone.

The word isn't the point, but what is it that you would like to call your form of worship/belief/spirituality/religion/relationship with god?

So is that the answer to the question of the OP? Is that why we feel no christian love? because it's ok to treat those who don't share your beliefs as lesser people?
Do you dislike me more because I'm gay or because I'm an atheist?

 

[IamRedeemed]

Most of it was. You have spoken to me for a couple of days and you "probably"
know all there is to know about me and all there is to know about the will and ways
of God whom you profess not to believe in? It was pretty pompous as well.

On the other, what you just read IF you just read it should be evident. Jesus is not a liberal.
The Kingdom of God is not a democracy. It is a Kingdom. It is ruled by a KING. Not only a King,
but the King of Kings. So, there is only ONE truth, and without the leading of the Holy Spirit of
God, many fall into the error of being their own teachers. Which is why there is such diverse error.

Please clarify... which part was presumptuous? And how did what I just read address that?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Abba Father, or 'daddy'. Sounds so sweet.

Is He the same 'daddy' that has destroyed thousands of His creations out of anger?

Is He the same 'daddy' that has arranged a 'concentration camp' for His creations who disobey Him?

Just wondering.

Don't believe the hype.

 

[Texas Lynn]

No. He is not their father. The Bible says that they're children of wrath, not children of God.

Who exactly are these homonuclei of which you speak?

 

[Texas Lynn]

It's interesting how fundamentalists often tend to unintentionally imply that justice is something evil by placing it in opposition to love...

It's not necessarily unintentional. To those enmeshed in that faction the thrill of being able to go to hebbin is exceeded by the thrill of knowing those you hate do not.

The religious scholar-author Karen Armstrong noted "Many would feel cheated if they got to heaven and there was not a parapet from which they could ovelook to see and hear the wailing of those below."

 

[jamielindas]

Oh how silly of me, I should have guessed you and I might not be talking about the same thing.
I am not speaking of the words themselves, but rather their definitions.

I was speaking of the definitions as well, that's why I asked you to choose a word that you felt fit your definition. I believe we were talking about the same thing, but the words used to describe it were throwing us off.

Didn't you profess to be an atheist?
If so, that would explain why it would be impossible in your current condition
for you to possess "Christian" love.

You misunderstood. I was not trying to possess christian love, I was talking about feeling loved by christians. Which I believe was the topic of the post. Those who follow the teachings of Christ profess to be very loving, but many time this love does not extend to the gay brethren.

And love itself can have very different meanings.
Some people equate love with embracing everything about another individual
with complete devotion. But yet what I find more often than not, is that those
who proselytize such hardly practice what they preach.

Others know there is a difference between loving people and
embracing all that they contend for. In other words to some, it would be
considered hating, if others vote no on the gay marriage bill.
Others are not entitled to their first amendment rights or rights to what
their children are exposed to in schools at age 5 etc etc ad infinitum.

I have seen homosexuals here, treat those who have been changed and say so,
with utter contempt and hostility as well as rejection.

The psychological and mental health community is pretty united on the fact that changing your sexuality is fairly futile. Most people who change revert at some time or develop other psychological problems. Coming out is a difficult process and coming to peace with your sexuality is a relief. Seeing someone revert is alarming and disheartening and I'm not surprised some people react to it poorly.

Most of the behavior displayed
here by those who are homosexual claiming to be Christian or Atheist really has
not shown to bear a difference from my point of view, and are completely hostile
to those of us who believe that the Bible is the Word of God and do our best to live
by it. We are loathed and despised and persecuted, accused of worshiping the
Bible and all kinds of other wacky accusations. So, if you feel persecuted,
you truly are not alone.

I'm actually going to agree with you on this one. I do there there are some liberals and atheists that persecute christians or anyone of religion and I do this this is wrong.
I'm reminded of a story of how a young girl wasn't allowed to sing a song about prayer (by celine dion) at a high school graduation because it was religion in school. This is total bull. I would NEVER deny anyone the right to celebrate and express their beliefs. However, I draw the line when those beliefs, celebrations, or expressions violate the rights of anyone else.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Unbelievable!

This brand of 'Christianity' is beginning to make atheism look sweeter with each passing day.

Keep in mind it's only one faction, and one whose influence is waning significantly as we speak.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I was speaking of the definitions as well, that's why I asked you to choose a word that you felt fit your definition. I believe we were talking about the same thing, but the words used to describe it were throwing us off.

You misunderstood. I was not trying to possess christian love, I was talking about feeling loved by christians. Which I believe was the topic of the post. Those who follow the teachings of Christ profess to be very loving, but many time this love does not extend to the gay brethren.


The psychological and mental health community is pretty united on the fact that changing your sexuality is fairly futile. Most people who change revert at some time or develop other psychological problems. Coming out is a difficult process and coming to peace with your sexuality is a relief. Seeing someone revert is alarming and disheartening and I'm not surprised some people react to it poorly.



I'm actually going to agree with you on this one. I do there there are some liberals and atheists that persecute christians or anyone of religion and I do this this is wrong.
I'm reminded of a story of how a young girl wasn't allowed to sing a song about prayer (by celine dion) at a high school graduation because it was religion in school. This is total bull. I would NEVER deny anyone the right to celebrate and express their beliefs. However, I draw the line when those beliefs, celebrations, or expressions violate the rights of anyone else.

I only have a minute, so I will address the rest later, but you hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph! That is EXACTLY how Christians feel in regards to the violations of our rights and how homosexuals and liberals even want to dictate to God what He is allowed to say is sin, and want to govern His church and want to violate the rights of parents everywhere by proselytizing the minds of 5-6 year old children that are not their own. This is wrong and overstepping. It is what I call the abuse of Liberty and Freedom.

Sorry I have to run out on you, but I will try to be back later to answer the rest!

 

[Texas Lynn]

It isn't a "brand".

Fundamentalism is one particular faction of Christianity and as such it is to Christianity as General Mills is to cereals, hence, a "brand".

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Fundamentalism is one particular faction of Christianity and as such it is to Christianity as General Mills is to cereals, hence, a "brand".

Opposing homsexuality isn't a "fundie" exclusive trait..

 

[Texas Lynn]

Opposing homsexuality isn't a "fundie" exclusive trait..

In looking at certain differing ways of defining both "opposing" and "fundie" that is possible.

Liberal Christian parents often have difficulty with their children being LGBT but they seldom engage in political action which seeks to harm LGBTs

Technically, Catholics aren't fundamentalists, though the ultra-conservative faction of them along with Protestant fundamentalists share characteristics of Ultra-Orthodox Jews and Fundamentalists Moslems.

Those are but two examples of how you are right. However, it is a "fundamentalism" which leads those who continually cite the same obscure verses and to join in factions which seek to do things like keep corporations from offering health care to domestic partners. You will not find, for instance a moderate Lutheran doing such a thing.

 

[*Starlight*]

Actually Star, it is not to imply intentionally or unintentionally that justice is evil, although,
I am sure those sitting on death row in prisons right now, could have a difference of opinion,
even though they would be wrong.

God is just, His judgments are righteous, whether we would or wouldn't do things the
way He has chosen to is irrelevant and God is not subject to the morals of man. For
men to think they could be more moral than God is nothing less than pure deception.

Satan thought he could do things equal to or better than God as well. It would be wise
and prudent if we humans should learn from his grave error.

Those who are not in Christ, are children of wrath. They spend their lives heaping up
wrath for themselves for the day of judgment. At ANY TIME in their lives, they can choose
to repent and turn toward God and become children of God through Christ. But that is up
to them. God does not force us to love Him. His love is there for the taking, but those
who reject it, choose to have no covering come the day of His judgment that He has
forwarned all is coming. That is the naked truth of the matter without the glitter, icing and fluff.

Sin bears consequence. As fallen creatures, we have no way of attaining the righteousness
of God without Christ. As Jesus said, we cannot serve two masters. Christ has no fellowship
with satan (Belial) neither light with darkness. God proved His love for us in that while
we were yet in our sin, Christ died for us. But if we neglect such a gift, and choose
His wrath instead, would it be God's fault or make Him evil?

No.

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant is that in the statement "God is love, but he is also just" (which I've seen soooooo many times!) the word "but" places God's justice as something opposite to love.

When people say God is love, but also is justice, they are not explained as opposites, but both traits of his ultimate "goodness", holiness. I imagine seeing God in all of his goodness, greatness, and holiness, and why would anyone want to ruin it?

Maybe they don't consciously mean it as something opposite, but the word "but" in the statement implies that justice is oppsite to love. And it's also reflected in their other beliefs, since the Christians who use the statement "God is love, but he is also just" also tend to see God's justice as not something that's meant to correct a person, but as pointless torture.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I think you misunderstood me. What I meant is that in the statement "God is love, but he is also just" (which I've seen soooooo many times!) the word "but" places God's justice as something opposite to love.



Maybe they don't consciously mean it as something opposite, but the word "but" in the statement implies that justice is oppsite to love. And it's also reflected in their other beliefs, since the Christians who use the statement "God is love, but he is also just" also tend to see God's justice as not something that's meant to correct a person, but as pointless torture.

It means "Ha ha, you disagreed with me so you're going ta heyell!" said vigorously with a gleam in the eye.

 

[jamielindas]

I only have a minute, so I will address the rest later, but you hit the nail on the head in the last paragraph! That is EXACTLY how Christians feel in regards to the violations of our rights and how homosexuals and liberals even want to dictate to God what He is allowed to say is sin, and want to govern His church and want to violate the rights of parents everywhere by proselytizing the minds of 5-6 year old children that are not their own. This is wrong and overstepping. It is what I call the abuse of Liberty and Freedom.

Sorry I have to run out on you, but I will try to be back later to answer the rest!

Ooooh. if we're going to get into what we teach our children... we might need another thread for sure!

 

[jamielindas]

Opposing homsexuality isn't a "fundie" exclusive trait..

This is very true...
though, I have not had any personal experience with liberals or atheists being against homosexuality. (though, is liberal/atheist an appropriate antonym to fundie?)

Perhaps it would be better to spin it the other way and say that being accepting of homosexuality isn't an exclusively liberal trait.