Question......

IamRedeemed · May 1, 2008

Exactly. Some people seek to present strawmen and believe the strawmen somehow
will stand against the truth spoken out of the mouth of God.

WarEagle said:
"Practice" isn't a bad word. It just means to do something.

I really have no idea how this is "cruel" or what this has to do with one's "capacity to love".

jamielindas · May 1, 2008

and this is why we find it hard to have love and compassion for our christian brethren.... they seem to have so little for us sometimes...

IamRedeemed · May 1, 2008

Agreement with God is always desirable to those who call Him Abba Father.

Texas Lynn said:
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Apostacy is always the accusation of choice by those who utterly fail in argument. It is the badge of honor of those to whom it is applied. Orthodoxy is never a desirable nor obtainable state.

IamRedeemed · May 1, 2008

The topic in case you forgot is homosexuality, and whether or not that word was a term
used before the late 1900's (as stated by you remember?) and is irrelevant as the words the
modern words have replaced are still accurate in definition to what they have always been.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for
correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly
furnished unto all good works.

As was proven by Jesus Christ and all of His Disciples and is confirmed by the Holy Spirit
even now in the hearts of men who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

I find your last statement kind of amusing, being that you advised me to pick up some
reading written by a one Marcus Borg to learn to refute the Bible by.

And as I said to you then, and bears repeating...

why would I look to men to refute the Word of God when the Holy Spirit bears witness as
did Jesus in His earthly ministry that what we do have IS the Word of God? The fact of the
matter is to the spiritually minded man the author of Scripture is without doubt, the one and
only God almighty from the first words in Genesis to the last words in Revelation. There is many
pens yes, but only ONE author. The Holy Spirit bears witness of this, which is why it has
stood the test of time against all odds and naysayers. Glory be to God!

Texas Lynn said:
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Not at all. "Love" in relationships at all is new concept from the Enlightenment. "Courtly Love" of the Medevial times was a practice of playacting between noblewomen and their husband's staffers which were only consummated in rare cases like Guinevere and Lancelot. The lives of most of humanity was always prior to modern times in Hobbes' phrase "nasty, brutish, and short". People back then had no concept of love so much as of power.

Not at all. You put your trust in men in whom it is not well-founded. All scripture always has been written for mercenary motives. "God" was not involved. God supercedes authority of mortals all the time.

jamielindas · May 1, 2008

Do you believe that human society (in general, on average) is better or worse than
2500 years ago?
(when it was acceptable to sacrifice to get a good harvest or bring the rain)
2000 years ago?
(when killing a man for raping your donkey was acceptable)
1000 years ago?
(women were bought and sold via marriage)
500 years ago?
(when torture/punishment 1st choice for criminals, rehabilitation was 3rd or 4th choice, if ever)
200 years ago?
(when slavery was still totally acceptable)
100 years ago?
(women still couldn't vote)
50 years ago?
(interracial marriage was illegal)

Many of these stains in our history that we have moved past had religious reasons behind them. As conditions of the world improve, a whole species, we move forward. We move toward equality and respect of the individual while maintaining what we can of the traditions of the past, but some are lost.
Why can't we just move forward?

IamRedeemed · May 1, 2008

This topic probably deserves it's own thread Jamie.

jamielindas · May 1, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
This topic probably deserves it's own thread Jamie.

Does it?
The topic was about why homosexuals don't feel loved by christians or why homosexuals don't feel loved or accepted by chrisitans.
You made an appeal to religious beliefs and tradition. I countered with why an appeal to tradition (especially those based on religion) isn't valid in my eyes.

As a homosexual, I see a lot of hate and apathy towards us from christians. This fact remains and you've really only reinforced it with your statements.

IamRedeemed · May 1, 2008

But your post was worthy of its own thread as it
is a conversation within itself. It's up to you what you decide. I offered the suggestion in good will.

As far as "religious" beliefs. I don't believe in "religions" or "religiosity",
so I am pretty sure I never offered any "religious beliefs and tradition".

jamielindas said:
Does it?
The topic was about why homosexuals don't feel loved by christians or why homosexuals don't feel loved or accepted by chrisitans.
You made an appeal to religious beliefs and tradition. I countered with why an appeal to tradition (especially those based on religion) isn't valid in my eyes.

As a homosexual, I see a lot of hate and apathy towards us from christians. This fact remains and you've really only reinforced it with your statements.

Texas Lynn · May 1, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Agreement with God is always desirable to those who call Him Abba Father.

God does not participate in these debates.

IamRedeemed · May 2, 2008

If I believed that, I absolutely wouldn't be here.
Since you do believe that, why would you want to participate in something regarding God, Jesus and Salvation, Heaven, Hell, you know, eternal matters which is what we should be focused on, if you don't believe God's hand is in it? You don't have to answer me, I just thought it was a question worth posing as I personally find it odd and thought maybe you should ask yourself privately and see if a good answer comes up.

KCKID · May 2, 2008

IAmRedeemed said:
Agreement with God is always desirableto those who call Him Abba Father

Abba Father, or 'daddy'. Sounds so sweet.

Is He the same 'daddy' that has destroyed thousands of His creations out of anger?

Is He the same 'daddy' that has arranged a 'concentration camp' for His creations who disobey Him?

Just wondering.

IamRedeemed · May 2, 2008

He is not their Daddy, no. The Word of God clearly explains that not all of God's creation are God's children. I have been over this before recently. Those He destroyed in the Old Testament rejected His provisions and chose to make their own path and rejected the warnings. Those whom you are speaking about in the time of the final Judgment are those who reject His gift and reject the opportunity to be grafted in by the Spirit of adoption that they might become sons of God, partakers with Christ, through Christ and escape the judgment that must come.
God is love, but He is also a God of justice and He has appointed a time and has made every provision that we would know the truth and choose this day whom we will serve. Those of us during this time of grace have it better than any before us, because we have their mistakes to learn from, that we don't follow their path that leads to destruction as they found out but rather choose the narrow road that leads to life through Christ. In three different places in the Word (twice in Hebrews, once in Psalms) God says, Today if you hear my voice, harden not your hearts.

KCKID said:
Abba Father, or 'daddy'. Sounds so sweet.

Is He the same 'daddy' that has destroyed thousands of His creations out of anger?

Is He the same 'daddy' that has arranged a 'concentration camp' for His creations who disobey Him?

Just wondering.

WarEagle · May 2, 2008

KCKID said:
Abba Father, or 'daddy'. Sounds so sweet.

KCKID said:
Is He the same 'daddy' that has destroyed thousands of His creations out of anger?

Is He the same 'daddy' that has arranged a 'concentration camp' for His creations who disobey Him?

No. He is not their father. The Bible says that they're children of wrath, not children of God.

*Starlight* · May 2, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
God is love, but He is also a God of justice

It's interesting how fundamentalists often tend to unintentionally imply that justice is something evil by placing it in opposition to love...

KCKID · May 2, 2008

WarEagle said:
No. He is not their father. The Bible says that they're children of wrath, not children of God.

Unbelievable!

This brand of 'Christianity' is beginning to make atheism look sweeter with each passing day.

IamRedeemed · May 2, 2008

Actually Star, it is not to imply intentionally or unintentionally that justice is evil, although,
I am sure those sitting on death row in prisons right now, could have a difference of opinion,
even though they would be wrong.

God is just, His judgments are righteous, whether we would or wouldn't do things the
way He has chosen to is irrelevant and God is not subject to the morals of man. For
men to think they could be more moral than God is nothing less than pure deception.

Satan thought he could do things equal to or better than God as well. It would be wise
and prudent if we humans should learn from his grave error.

Those who are not in Christ, are children of wrath. They spend their lives heaping up
wrath for themselves for the day of judgment. At ANY TIME in their lives, they can choose
to repent and turn toward God and become children of God through Christ. But that is up
to them. God does not force us to love Him. His love is there for the taking, but those
who reject it, choose to have no covering come the day of His judgment that He has
forwarned all is coming. That is the naked truth of the matter without the glitter, icing and fluff.

Sin bears consequence. As fallen creatures, we have no way of attaining the righteousness
of God without Christ. As Jesus said, we cannot serve two masters. Christ has no fellowship
with satan (Belial) neither light with darkness. God proved His love for us in that while
we were yet in our sin, Christ died for us. But if we neglect such a gift, and choose
His wrath instead, would it be God's fault or make Him evil?

No.

*Starlight* said:
It's interesting how fundamentalists often tend to unintentionally imply that justice is something evil by placing it in opposition to love...

Apollo Celestio · May 2, 2008

KCKID said:
Unbelievable!

This brand of 'Christianity' is beginning to make atheism look sweeter with each passing day.

Given this statement, you should really examine yourself and how you view God, what do you think of him, do you love him? Do you put yourself above him? Often I hear this statement, it comes from people who don't really care at all about God. It's a personal relationship, don't spit on God claiming "Your Christians made me do this!!"

IamRedeemed · May 2, 2008

It isn't a "brand". There is only ONE truth. Not 50 palatable truths. Rebellion and pride are what got a hold of satan and the reason he is not basking in the glory of God now, but awaiting his destruction. This is why we are called to surrender and behold the way of righteousness. This is what it means to deny ourselves and take up our cross. Atheists accuse Christians of being so because it provides a crutch of some form, as though we turned to Christ because we couldn't hack life, when the reality is, it is a narrow and difficult path to follow the ways of God and denying our natural sinful instincts to "even the score", "tit for tat" etc. Above and beyond any other temptations that we face just like every other human ever born.

But we must remember that God spared not satan and the angels that followed him and departed from the habitation God provided and we truly are no better than they and because God is righteous and just, we cannot expect that if we go they way they went, our end will be any different than that He has reserved for satan and his angels. Which that exact fact is indeed written in God's Word in Revelation chapter 12 verse 7. Jude 1:6 also says:
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

2 Peter 2:4-18

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds. The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing
accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot
in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own
deceivings while they feast with you;

Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable
souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of
Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice
forbad the madness of the prophet.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest;
to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the
lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped
from them who live in error.

KCKID said:
Unbelievable!

This brand of 'Christianity' is beginning to make atheism look sweeter with each passing day.

Apollo Celestio · May 2, 2008

*Starlight* said:
It's interesting how fundamentalists often tend to unintentionally imply that justice is something evil by placing it in opposition to love...

When people say God is love, but also is justice, they are not explained as opposites, but both traits of his ultimate "goodness", holiness. I imagine seeing God in all of his goodness, greatness, and holiness, and why would anyone want to ruin it?

jamielindas · May 2, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
But your post was worthy of its own thread as it
is a conversation within itself. It's up to you what you decide. I offered the suggestion in good will.

As far as "religious" beliefs. I don't believe in "religions" or "religiosity",
so I am pretty sure I never offered any "religious beliefs and tradition".

This is semantic horse doody... you are clearly a person of religion whether you choose to admit that or not. You clearly follow a doctrine laid down for you by interpretation of the bible. You believe and worship and I think that is a fairly common definition of the religion, religiosity. Would you prefer I used 'belief system' instead? The point is... many of your beliefs, are based on things that have little supporting evidence...
Many injustices are done in the name of beliefs... your mistreatment and feelings about the GLBT community are another example of this. ...
this is why we feel so little love from our christian brethren.... (to get back to the topic at hand)

Question......

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

When given the option, choose love and compassion

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

When given the option, choose love and compassion

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

When given the option, choose love and compassion

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Well-Known Member

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time

Well-Known Member

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Deal with it.

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

Deal with it.

When given the option, choose love and compassion

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