question...

[nvxplorer]

How does that I can't prove heaven/hell's existence mean it's not either objectively true or false? Subjective 'Truth' is a crock of sh--, Heaven doesn't pop into existence becasue you beleive in it nor out of becasue you don't, nor does it actually exist for one who does while at the same time not existing for one who doesn't.

Great argument - against your own assertion.

That we can't examine supernatural claims puts them firmly in the subjective category. Anything that exists only as a concept is subjective by definition. Indeed, concepts are the epitome of subjectivity. If a concept can be examined with corresponding data, then an objective conclusion can be formed. That the sky is blue is an objective conclusion. We can measure the quality of light emitted by the sky, and compare that to our definition of "blue." No such test exists for God, heaven or hell.

 

[Blackguard_]

That we can't examine supernatural claims puts them firmly in the subjective category. Anything that exists only as a concept is subjective by definition. Indeed, concepts are the epitome of subjectivity. If a concept can be examined with corresponding data, then an objective conclusion can be formed. That the sky is blue is an objective conclusion. We can measure the quality of light emitted by the sky, and compare that to our definition of "blue." No such test exists for God, heaven or hell.

So "objective" is just a synonym for "scientific"?
I thought it meant the thing exists or not/is true or not/etc. regardless of what people think of it, as opposed to say, relativist morality, where what people think determines it's existance and properties. The sky would still be blue if everyone thought it was red right?

 

[nvxplorer]

So "objective" is just a synonym for "scientific"?
I thought it meant the thing exists or not/is true or not/etc. regardless of what people think of it, as opposed to say, relativist morality, where what people think determines it's existance and properties. The sky would still be blue if everyone thought it was red right?

Objectivity requires a lack of personal bias (religious faith is perhaps the strongest type of personal bias). It also requires some object that can be examined. As blue and red are defined as distinct colors, it would be a simple task to compare a sample of each with the sky and determine which color applies. To a blind man, such distinctions would be irrelevant. Any opinion a blind man would have on the color of the sky would be subjective. This is because, lacking the ability to see the sky, he has only his mind to work with. The same holds true with supernatural claims. They can be examined only in the minds of those holding such beliefs. There exists no sample of "supernatural" with which you can compare reality. Therefore, your opinion of the supernatural holds true only for you, and is purely subjective.