Question...

[questionquestion]

We all know salvation comes through accepting Jesus death on the cross for the sacrifice for our sins....

but, do we have to pray and tell God we accepted his sacrifice

or can we just believe

the bible seems to indicate that all we have to do is believe... but nowadays it seems like everyone *with the sinners prayer* has to pray to god and tell him they accept Jesus sacrifice instead of just believeing without telling God.... cant you just heard the word and believe and accept Jesus sacrifice without a prayer?

 

[£amb]

We all know salvation comes through accepting Jesus death on the cross for the sacrifice for our sins....

but, do we have to pray and tell God we accepted his sacrifice

or can we just believe

the bible seems to indicate that all we have to do is believe... but nowadays it seems like everyone *with the sinners prayer* has to pray to god and tell him they accept Jesus sacrifice instead of just believeing without telling God.... cant you just heard the word and believe and accept Jesus sacrifice without a prayer?

I don't think we need to "tell" Him...He knows if we believe. But I think it's good to pray to praise and thank Him for His love for falling on you. When I became a christian, I prayed to God. I did do the "sinners" prayer. But I do know that the prayer itself wasn't what saved me, but my belief and faith in Jesus. I prayed to confess to Him that I believed and that I needed Him in my life.

 

[Richard]

Ok , i'm glad someone broke the ice, because I didn't want to start it

I think that God knows if you truly believe, but it is still a good thing to start all over and pray for your forgives and praise God for saving you

 

[daveleau]

In Romans 10, we are told to call on the name of the Lord. But, we are told in many places that Salvation is received through belief in Christ as our Messiah.

 

[mesue]

Yes, you have to confess with your mouth, God said so.
Yes, God knows our hearts, but He still wants to hear us say it. Kinda' like when we want to hear our kids say please and thank you. We already know they're thankful by the smile on their face, we still like to hear "Thank you."

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[newbeliever02072005]

Yes, you have to confess with your mouth, God said so.
Yes, God knows our hearts, but He still wants to hear us say it. Kinda' like when we want to hear our kids say please and thank you. We already know they're thankful by the smile on their face, we still like to hear "Thank you."

I like how you put that.....thanks

 

[TwinCrier]

If someone is mute or otherwise physically unable to speak then of course God would accept their belief, but if you are able to speak to praise God and publically confess your faith, then you really should do so.

 

[MikeDeanRN]

Just like in Matthew 16 when Jesus asked Peter "Who do you say that I am."

He wants to hear us tell Him that not only do we beleive in Him, but we believe he is "the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

I think its just as important what you believe about Jesus as it is to believe in Him.

 

[JPPT1974]

Just like in Matthew 16 when Jesus asked Peter "Who do you say that I am."

He wants to hear us tell Him that not only do we beleive in Him, but we believe he is "the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

I think its just as important what you believe about Jesus as it is to believe in Him.

The only way to see God is to see Him through our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ!

 

[Crazy Liz]

I think its just as important what you believe about Jesus as it is to believe in Him.

I couldn't disagree more. Faith (believing in, or trusting Jesus) is not the same as opinions (what you believe about Jesus). Part of the problem is that the English language (unlike biblical Greek) has no verb corresponding to the noun "faith." Many translators have chosen the word "believe" as the closest equivalent, but "believe" in English often denotes holding a particular opinion, as opposed to "trust," which probably would be a better translation for the Greek word pisteuo, the verbal form of "faith" (pistis in Greek).

 

[indra_fanatic]

I couldn't disagree more. Faith (believing in, or trusting Jesus) is not the same as opinions (what you believe about Jesus). Part of the problem is that the English language (unlike biblical Greek) has no verb corresponding to the noun "faith." Many translators have chosen the word "believe" as the closest equivalent, but "believe" in English often denotes holding a particular opinion, as opposed to "trust," which probably would be a better translation for the Greek word pisteuo, the verbal form of "faith" (pistis in Greek).

Come again?

Even demons "believe" in Jesus--meaning they know for a fact that He exists. There are all sorts of people and sects who believe IN Jesus and believe all sorts of bizarre things about Him. Some think He is some kind of great, cosmic stoner. Others simply would say that He was just a great teacher. Others believe he had some sort of divine or prophet status, but not Godhood; Muslims in particular are in this category (viewing Him as a predecessor prophet to Mohammed), and in fact groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah have cynically attempted to use this in order to gain support among Christians.

This doesn't even begin to address the THOUSANDS of quasi-Christian cults in existence that hold the Son in high regard, but with severe modification.

If I believe our Lord is just this groovy dude in space made of cheese, does that demonstrate I am a believer?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Come again?

Even demons "believe" in Jesus--meaning they know for a fact that He exists. There are all sorts of people and sects who believe IN Jesus and believe all sorts of bizarre things about Him. Some think He is some kind of great, cosmic stoner. Others simply would say that He was just a great teacher. Others believe he had some sort of divine or prophet status, but not Godhood; Muslims in particular are in this category (viewing Him as a predecessor prophet to Mohammed), and in fact groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah have cynically attempted to use this in order to gain support among Christians.

This doesn't even begin to address the THOUSANDS of quasi-Christian cults in existence that hold the Son in high regard, but with severe modification.

If I believe our Lord is just this groovy dude in space made of cheese, does that demonstrate I am a believer?

You make my point.

All these peoples have opinions (beliefs) about Jesus - some more wrong than others. I've changed my mind about enough things (especially theological matters) in my life not to trust my own beliefs. But I trust Jesus, whether I understand him or not.

This is why "believe" or "believe in" aren't really very good words (in our current Western modern/postmodern culture) to translate the Greek verb pisteuo, the verb form of the noun pistis, faith.

That is why I liked the fact that the post I responded to contrasted "believing about" with "believing in." I disagreed with Mike's conclusion (with which you apparently agree) that "believing about" is as important as "believing in." Now that you have pointed it out, I really don't know what Mike meant by "believing in" - which is why "believing" is not really a very good word, in 21st century English, for faith. Mike could have meant, as you did, "believing in" as having some sort of opinion about Jesus as having existed and as having some sort of importance. If that's what he meant, then I guess I'd have to agree that the content of that opinion is more important than the mere fact of having an opinion.

However, the usual Christian meaning of "believe in" means to have faith in, to trust. Trusting someone is a very different thing than having an opinion about someone. WRT our faith in Jesus, trust is far, far more important than our opinions.

 

[indra_fanatic]

You make my point.

Explain?

All these peoples have opinions (beliefs) about Jesus - some more wrong than others.

What benefit is it to their souls if what they think about Jesus is so egregiously distorted that it bears absolutely no relationship to a standard relationship with God? This is tantamount to me asserting that "Crazy Liz is my friend, because she is this world-famous Lepidoptera expert and has the power to give my net magical gifts so that I never, ever will miss another butterfly I swing at." My expectations of you, and what I believe I know about you, are so beyond the pale in this scenario that I really wouldn't know you at all if that were true.

I've changed my mind about enough things (especially theological matters) in my life not to trust my own beliefs.

We all change our minds on various debatable matters--i.e. eternal security, sanctity of the Sabbath in modern times, whether or not God has ever incorporated evolution into the universe, etc. What I hope that neither of us ever has waffled on and never will are obvious core matters to our salvation--whether or not we believe we are saved by the attitude of our heart (as opposed to works), whether we believe God alone is sovereign in the universe--essentials like that.

But I trust Jesus, whether I understand him or not.

Liz, none of us will fully understand the Lord, but He does expect for us to make a sincere effort to. We may trust Jesus with all that we reasonably know and are capable of, but not everyone does. Mormons, Unitarian Universalists, etc. are not expending any effort to really understand Him in a biblical sense.

This is why "believe" or "believe in" aren't really very good words (in our current Western modern/postmodern culture) to translate the Greek verb pisteuo, the verb form of the noun pistis, faith.

OK... I get your point. "Believe" in the West means when someone thinks they know something but aren't 100% sure. I guess a better translation would be to simply say "we KNOW Jesus Christ" rather than "we believe in Him".

That is why I liked the fact that the post I responded to contrasted "believing about" with "believing in." I disagreed with Mike's conclusion (with which you apparently agree) that "believing about" is as important as "believing in."

What I meant is that I agreed with him that there are countless millions of people who are quite positive about what they (think they) know about Jesus and are absolutely wrong. Almost all of them would say that Jesus is the way to heaven, but in actuality most of them have invented their personal paths to heaven and tack on Jesus as windowdressing, even if sincerely so.

There are appx 2 billion nominal Christians on this planet--a third of the global population. When you add Muslims, who by default have a very high (historical, at least) opinion of Him, that brings us to over half of the people in the world "believing" something great about Jesus. Now, do the math... 1s 60% of the population of planet Earth achieving salvation?

Now that you have pointed it out, I really don't know what Mike meant by "believing in" - which is why "believing" is not really a very good word, in 21st century English, for faith.

The way I see it, there are at least three definitions in the vernacular for belief:
(1) like I said before, thinking something is true without being positive ("I believe that there is an afterlife and we all get rewarded")
(2) being positive something is true ("I believe He died and rose again")
(3) incorrectly used, a signifier of personal moral validation ("I believe in adoption, I don't believe in animal testing")

Mike could have meant, as you did, "believing in" as having some sort of opinion about Jesus as having existed and as having some sort of importance. If that's what he meant, then I guess I'd have to agree that the content of that opinion is more important than the mere fact of having an opinion.

Fair enough.

However, the usual Christian meaning of "believe in" means to have faith in, to trust. Trusting someone is a very different thing than having an opinion about someone. WRT our faith in Jesus, trust is far, far more important than our opinions.

What about the people who trust that Jesus wants to give them lots of riches, that Jesus doesn' care what they do as long as they do "good deeds", and so on?

 

[Crazy Liz]

What about the people who trust that Jesus wants to give them lots of riches, that Jesus doesn' care what they do as long as they do "good deeds", and so on?

What about them?

If they trust Jesus, then if/when they don't get lots of riches, they will keep on trusting, but realize Jesus never promised them riches. If they trust Jesus then they will eventually realize Jesus cares what they do. Their opinions will change, but the trust can remain. That is faith.

What I'm trying to get across is that the Bible talks about faith, which means trusting, not holding correct opinions. Many people have the wrong idea about this because biblical words for faith are so often translated "believe," and are therefore interpreted to mean opinion, not steadfast trust.

The opinions will change, no matter what. If trust underlies the opinions, then the changes will usually be in the right direction - more and more closely approximating truth.

 

[JPPT1974]

We need to trust in the Lord Jesus and that by putting our faith in Him, that He will allow us to see His work and miracles work in mysterious ways. And that the Bible is not just for lessons or for historical facts. But also they can apply them to our everyday lives.

 

[bethdinsmore]

Good question.

Belief in (trusting in or relying upon) Christ to pay for our sins on the cross and to get us to Heaven one day (without relying on our good works) is all that it takes to become a Christian. That is a simple decision, nothing more. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9

If we add to Jesus' work on the cross to get us to Heaven, we are saying His death is inadequate (Rom. 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. NIV)

(There is more detail on my website listed on my profile page, under "How to be saved")

Aloha in Jesus

 

[indra_fanatic]

What about them?

If they trust Jesus, then if/when they don't get lots of riches, they will keep on trusting, but realize Jesus never promised them riches

There are plenty of people who are completely convinced, due to the actions of certain figures in Christian pop culture, of this and this alone. Some may lose all trust in Him and fall away when they don't get what they want, and others may see the falsehoods in this teaching and seek out Biblical instruction, but others may wind up, coincidentally, becoming prosperous and take that as reinforcement of their value system.

If they trust Jesus then they will eventually realize Jesus cares what they do. Their opinions will change, but the trust can remain. That is faith.

This is true of mature believers--probably not of the majority of Christendom. Most Americans, by opinion poll results, are prepared to claim that they "trust Jesus". It also presupposes that the individuals referred to have the desire to grow in Jesus to begin with. The average marginal believer who figures that reciting some little creed gets you to heaven may have absolute trust in that little chant, but is unlikely to change anything unless it sinks into his or her heart.

What I'm trying to get across is that the Bible talks about faith, which means trusting, not holding correct opinions.

You cannot have the one without being at least mostly right on the other one. The majority of Mormons certainly trust Jesus--and trust that he is the brother of Lucifer, that they will get to be little gods someday, and other such things. In fact, the majority of LDS believers have, externally, far better "Christian walks" than the majority of real believers.

Many people have the wrong idea about this because biblical words for faith are so often translated "believe," and are therefore interpreted to mean opinion, not steadfast trust.

Like I said, while this indeed separates most people with casual belief systems, there are millions upon millions of people in para-Christian sects that have an ironclad trust in their definition of God/Jesus.

If trust underlies the opinions, then the changes will usually be in the right direction - more and more closely approximating truth.

I will concede this: it is possible for someone with extremely erroneous views to be biblical Christians if they are accepting of learning, correction, and growth. Some are and some are not. What would you say about weight-loss leader Gwen Shamblin? She professed to be a Christian and that her fitness seminar was supposed to lead its adherents closer to God, but she not only promoted her bizarre views on the Trinity (i.e. that Father/Son/Holy Spirit are all separate gods or something like that), but eventually withdrew from the church altogether and started her own denomination.

Is that Biblical trust? Is that anything that approximates truth? No, and yet I bet she is absolutely certain in her heart she is right.

 

[Crazy Liz]

I think this morning maybe I woke up with a good illustration of where I'm coming from here, IF. Let's call it the Heisenberg Principle of faith.

"The more precisely
the POSITION is determined,
the less precisely
the MOMENTUM is known"​

The direction someone is moving (their momentum toward God or away from God) is so much more important than their present position, that I often choose not to pay much attention to their present spiritual position.

Heisenberg (or maybe it was Schroedinger?) also said the process of observing changes the thing observed. IOW, methods of exactly determining the location of a subatomic particle will change its motion from the point of observation. If I see movement in a good direction, I don't want to change the spiritual momentum by fixing its location at a particular point in time.

I don't know if that will make sense to everyone, or even to you, but it is one of the principles I have found helpful in ministry. As a result, I may often make my own position hard to measure because I would rather have other people observe my momentum. If someone is absolutely certain in her heart she is right, she is making her position easier to measure than her momentum. It is more difficult to minister to such a person.

 

[JPPT1974]

Good question.

Belief in (trusting in or relying upon) Christ to pay for our sins on the cross and to get us to Heaven one day (without relying on our good works) is all that it takes to become a Christian. That is a simple decision, nothing more. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9

If we add to Jesus' work on the cross to get us to Heaven, we are saying His death is inadequate (Rom. 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. NIV)

(There is more detail on my website listed on my profile page, under "How to be saved")

Aloha in Jesus

Christ paid for our sins so that we didn't have to take up our crosses and walk and payfor them ourselves. And also to save us from eternal separation from Him.

 

[Stinker]

We all know salvation comes through accepting Jesus death on the cross for the sacrifice for our sins....

but, do we have to pray and tell God we accepted his sacrifice

or can we just believe

the bible seems to indicate that all we have to do is believe... but nowadays it seems like everyone *with the sinners prayer* has to pray to god and tell him they accept Jesus sacrifice instead of just believeing without telling God.... cant you just heard the word and believe and accept Jesus sacrifice without a prayer?

"...or can we just believe?"

New Testament belief consists of two components both working in harmony together. They are of the intellect and of the will.

The New Testament gives us examples of groups of people having just one of either of these components:

"Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed (intellectually) in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God." (Jn.12:42-43)

"For I testify about them that they have a zeal (strong will) for God, but not in accordance with knowledge." (Rom.10:2)


One does not need a private ceremony like a prayer in order to be saved, but it does aid psychologically and in a congregation it does show formally that you are now a part of the body of Christ.

The Corelius household is a great example of how a person is actually saved. While Peter was preaching to them God saw that they believed intellectually and with their heart (will) and at that instant they were saved. 'Cornelius, send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here; and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.' And as I (Peter) began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning" (Acts 11:14-15) The miraculous power to speak in tongues that God gave that household was to show Peter that the Gospel had now been extended to the Gentiles (non-Jews) All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. (Acts 10:45)