Question: "What is the scroll"

[Standing Up]

I think that they are. Daniel's scroll is a prophecy, correct? A deed and title would be something different.

That's leaving aside that there are two scrolls mentioned in Revelation - the first in Rev. 5 that only Jesus is worthy to open, the second in Rev. 10 which John takes from the angel who has one foot on the land and one in the sea and is told specifically, after eating the scroll, that "You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings."

I think its much more likely that the second scroll is rightly identified as Daniel's sealed prophecy. In the next chapters, which I assume are the substance of the prophecy from the scroll taken from the hand of the angel, we see the two beasts starting in chapter 13. The first beast shares the same symbols as all of Daniel's four beasts - leading me to believe that the second scroll is Daniel's sealed prophecy.

Written on both sides, right? One side the deed/right. One side the previously sealed prophecy.

Because the Lamb began to break open the seals. How else do the seals fit in to the idea of it being the deed?

 

[5010]

The Scroll which the redeemer broke open was sealed with seven seals according to jewish tradition, only the redeemer could open it.

I found a book online which goes into great detail of this type of redemption but my post count is too low to share it. GOD is sooo AWSOME!

 

[Standing Up]

The Scroll which the redeemer broke open was sealed with seven seals according to jewish tradition, only the redeemer could open it.

I found a book online which goes into great detail of this type of redemption but my post count is too low to share it. GOD is sooo AWSOME!

Post a few

See also Neh. 9:34-38.

 

[cyberlizard]

what I want to know is...

if the scroll was sealed with seven seals, how could he have known it had writing on both sides (being as you can only see one side of the scroll).


Steve

 

[Zadok7000]

That's leaving aside that there are two scrolls mentioned in Revelation - the first in Rev. 5 that only Jesus is worthy to open, the second in Rev. 10 which John takes from the angel who has one foot on the land and one in the sea and is told specifically, after eating the scroll, that "You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings."

As an aside, Rev. 10:11 actually says Thou must prophesy again before ("epi") many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. IE "to" them, not "about" them. Anyway...

Why can't the two books (scrolls) in Rev. be the same? Just before and after the seals on it are broken? I assume you believe that the Seals correspond to the the Lord's words in Matt. 24, and Daniel is part of that prophecy (abomination of desolation). In chapter 5 the sealed book is introduced, in chapter 6 the first 6 seals are opened, in chapter 7 the 4 winds (Dan. 7:2) are held back until the angel with the Seal of God seals the servants of God in their foreheads, in chapters 8-9 the seals are all opened (allowing the winds/trumpets to blow), and chapter 10 the unsealed book is open, now to be preached to the whole world. Reminds me of Matt. 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Then right on cue, the 7th Trumpet blows in chapter 11.

 

[Zadok7000]

what I want to know is...

if the scroll was sealed with seven seals, how could he have known it had writing on both sides (being as you can only see one side of the scroll).


Steve

God knows stuff.

 

[Zadok7000]

Written on both sides, right? One side the deed/right. One side the previously sealed prophecy.

There you go!

 

[Brad2009]

As an aside, Rev. 10:11 actually says Thou must prophesy again before ("epi") many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. IE "to" them, not "about" them. Anyway...

Why can't the two books (scrolls) in Rev. be the same? Just before and after the seals on it are broken? I assume you believe that the Seals correspond to the the Lord's words in Matt. 24, and Daniel is part of that prophecy (abomination of desolation). In chapter 5 the sealed book is introduced, in chapter 6 the first 6 seals are opened, in chapter 7 the 4 winds (Dan. 7:2) are held back until the angel with the Seal of God seals the servants of God in their foreheads, in chapters 8-9 the seals are all opened (allowing the winds/trumpets to blow), and chapter 10 the unsealed book is open, now to be preached to the whole world. Reminds me of Matt. 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Then right on cue, the 7th Trumpet blows in chapter 11.

It doesn't seem to me that they are the same - I think its more of a reach to say that they must be one in the same than to say that the two scrolls are seperate things. One is something which only Jesus is worthy to open and one seems to be a prophecy. I see no reason to equate the two.

 

[Brad2009]

As an aside, Rev. 10:11 actually says Thou must prophesy again before ("epi") many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. IE "to" them, not "about" them. Anyway...

Every commentary I see on-line renders "epilaois" as "concerning many peoples". So I don't think so, ie, not "to" them, "about" them, just as the NIV renders it.

 

[5010]

It doesn't seem to me that they are the same - I think its more of a reach to say that they must be one in the same than to say that the two scrolls are seperate things. One is something which only Jesus is worthy to open and one seems to be a prophecy. I see no reason to equate the two.

The open copy(ies) of the deed must be attested to by witnesses.

 

[kotel]

The Revelation scroll does have writing on both sides revealing the events during Daniel’s 70th week, Rev 5:1.

Ezekiel was shown a scroll with writing on both sides revealing Jerusalem’s judgment at the hands of the Babylonians in 587-586 B.C. (Eze 2:10).

 

[Standing Up]

what I want to know is...

if the scroll was sealed with seven seals, how could he have known it had writing on both sides (being as you can only see one side of the scroll).


Steve

Scrolls I've seen have two handles to unfurl it. So, I'd suppose the inside is where it is normally written, which is assumed, but evidently the outside had writing.

This seems to fit that it is the same (deed, and sealed prophecy). Deed on the outside and sealed prophecy on the inside. Then the seals are broken and it begins to unfurl. If so, if the deed is on the outside, it may not be 'presented' until all of the scroll is unfurled, allowing all to come to pass.

 

[5010]

Why does it still have to comply with your pre-exisiting theology?

Think about it.

 

[Standing Up]

Why does it still have to comply with your pre-exisiting theology?

Think about it.

Not sure to whom you're speaking.

What is your point?

 

[5010]

I'm asking a pointed question on purpose.

My point is this; Now you know about the deed and redemption and yet you still cling to your previous theology. You accept that the scroll is a deed but take your old theology about the scroll being the "sealed book" in Daniel and try to put them together. My intent is to have you look at why you did that.

Sometimes we can get so hung up on what we believe about prophecy that we can miss the true interpretation of it, it happened to many of the Jews living in the times of JESUS ministry on earth.

When I've used the word "you" in this post I have meant you personally and everyone who this may apply to aswell. My intention isn't to single you out in anyway Standing Up.

 

[Brad2009]

I'm asking a pointed question on purpose.

My point is this; Now you know about the deed and redemption and yet you still cling to your previous theology. You accept that the scroll is a deed but take your old theology about the scroll being the "sealed book" in Daniel and try to put them together. My intent is to have you look at why you did that.

Sometimes we can get so hung up on what we believe about prophecy that we can miss the true interpretation of it, it happened to many of the Jews living in the times of JESUS ministry on earth.

When I've used the word "you" in this post I have meant you personally and everyone who this may apply to aswell. My intention isn't to single you out in anyway Standing Up.

Touche!

 

[Brad2009]

Another possibility: the flying scroll from Zechariah 5:1-4

Zechariah 5:1-4
The Flying Scroll

1 I looked again—and there before me was a flying scroll! 2 He asked me, "What do you see?"
I answered, "I see a flying scroll, thirty feet long and fifteen feet wide. [a] "
3 And he said to me, "This is the curse that is going out over the whole land; for according to what it says on one side, every thief will be banished, and according to what it says on the other, everyone who swears falsely will be banished. 4 The LORD Almighty declares, 'I will send it out, and it will enter the house of the thief and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. It will remain in his house and destroy it, both its timbers and its stones.' "




Zechariah is difficult to understand for sure - there seems to be, all mixed together, prophecy about the return from Babylonian exile, prophecy about the millennial reign, prophecy about the day of the Lord, prophecy about Jesus' first coming, prophecy of the return of the tribe of Judah to the beautiful land and prophecy about the two witnesses.


Just another thought

 

[walt2000]

Originally Posted by walt2000

Things Which Are Seven Thunders

Seven Thunders

Look to my chart Horizontally to see who these elements are

​

Those lines and ovals ,as you call them are similaritys between the thunders.And the area around the Thunders are really self explanatory.

GET MY CHART AND LOOK.​

7 the top horizontal line is Christ's victory,in yellow.
6 next horizontal line is in Red ,The no. of Man.
5 line next is Christ's protection,souls protected,Come up my people.Word
4 line from the top is the no. of Earth.
3 line is the trinity no.Father(God),Son Of (God),Holy spirit, Word of (God)
2 this line is the union With (God)
1 is the no. of unity,(God)​

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
7 promises to the church's on the Earth ,things Thu seen,with (God)​

The first four 1,2,3,4, are the four spirits that roam the Earth.​

7 th.Thunder vertically is mystery Babylon White horse winner on Earth.
6 th. Thunder vertically is man.on Earth
5.th. Thunder vertically is Babylon Fallen Preaching to the Earth.​

4.th. Thunder vertically is The word on the Earth.
3 rd. Thunder vertically is witnesses on Earth.
2 nd. Thunder vertically is union with Christ on Earth.
1 st. Thunder vertically is White horse ,winner with Christ on Earth.​

5,6,7 is the consequences of the word .The trinity on Earth​

even a
Fundamentalist Should see that lay ed out.To not see that, is a disservice,two the author.
look how the victory lines up at the top.
look how the winepress's line up ,next down.
look at Earth Quakes and the Great river line up horizontally.
look at the promised White clothed protection line up horizontally.
look how come up my people lines up with come out my people.
look how the seals,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 line up with the trumpets,and vials line up with each other.
look how wormwood on water,blood on water,line up
look how burning mountain in sea ,and blood on sea ,line up.
look how the two Babylons line up with each other.
look how The Thunders start with a White Horse,and end with a White horse .​

And that is just ten item's,there are germatria connections yet to them all ..​

Revelations Of Seven Thunders Explaining Flash Card
I repeat ,Those lines and ovals ,as you call them are similarity's between the thunders.Showing That they are really one repeated ,And the area around the Thunders are really self explanatory.walt2000​

 

[walt2000]

Question:

Can anyone tell me in 50 words or less;

"What the scroll in Revelation 5 is?"

And

Why did John cry when he learned no one was found worthy to open it?

Rev 5:4 Then I wept because no one could be found who was worthy to open the scroll and read it.

- This is a pop quiz, think about it.

Revelation of Christ to John
I opened it in 68​

Rev.10/4 is the little scroll in Ez, and Dan.walt2000

 

[walt2000]

Revelation 22/18-19 tells us every body is wrong . It is a direct sin against Christ .You have to get your information from Revelation, and Revelation only, most of you are guilty of this transgression.walt2000