Question that perplexes me

[clirus]

MacFall quote

There are dozens of Taliban "camps". Only a few of them were ever hostile to the US...

Response

Can you really prove that statement or is it just your hope to justify your positions.

I see an awful lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacks relative to the American position on the Middle East.

Most of these Monday Morning Quarterback statements seem to be created to support the Pacifist, War Protester position of Hating America.

 

[Ar Cosc]

MacFall quote

There are dozens of Taliban "camps". Only a few of them were ever hostile to the US...

Response

Can you really prove that statement or is it just your hope to justify your positions.

I see an awful lot of Monday Morning Quarterbacks relative to the American position on the Middle East.

Most of these Monday Morning Quarterback statements seem to be created to support the Pacifist, War Protester position of Hating America.

Clirus, I think you're the one who hates America. After all, you're the one who wants to execute most of her population (when you include liberals, atheists, Muslims, homosexuals, you're getting on for 160 million people)

 

[MacFall]

Can you really prove that statement or is it just your hope to justify your positions.

Not to you. I could cite representatives of those groups themselves, which you would reject because they are Muslims, or reporters like Glenn Greenwald, which you would reject because they are "liberals". You only accept the words of people with whom you already agree.

Most of these Monday Morning Quarterback statements seem to be created to support the Pacifist, War Protester position of Hating America.

Being opposed to government wars is not pacifism nor anti-Americanism. I believe in self-defense and the defense of the innocent. But I do not believe in the ideology of America's political class, and so I do not believe that people should kill for them.

 

[merryheart]

lol - taliban means students. if a group of english speaking students does something bad, does that implicate all students who speak english?

 

[clirus]

Clirus, I think you're the one who hates America. After all, you're the one who wants to execute most of her population (when you include liberals, atheists, Muslims, homosexuals, you're getting on for 160 million people)

I do not want to execute anyone, but those that endanger America should be executed by Civil Law in order to preserve America as a Christian Nation.

Everyone has to make choices about good and evil. If the evil a person chooses, endangers society/America, then execution is appropriate.

The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.

I believe the Bible teaches all things should be dealt with by the following three levels of action;
1) If it is good - accept it and nourish it.
2) If it is evil - rebuke it but tolerate it.
3) If it threatens your existence - destroy it before it destroys you. This is self defense, which both the individual and society have a right and responsibility to do.

The first two are from the New Testament of the Bible and represent the Law of Love. The third is from the Old Testament of the Bible and represents the Law of Purity/Self Defense. The New Testament deals more with personal responsibility and the Old Testament deals more with the preservation of society. The Old Testament and the New Testament together present God's Law, a means of survival for a person, a nation and a world. No one should be forced to be a Christian, but all should be judged by Civil Law based on Christian Principles.

 

[TheReasoner]

I do not want to execute anyone, but those that endanger America should be executed by Civil Law in order to preserve America as a Christian Nation.

Everyone has to make choices about good and evil. If the evil a person chooses, endangers society/America, then execution is appropriate.

The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.

I believe the Bible teaches all things should be dealt with by the following three levels of action;
1) If it is good - accept it and nourish it.
2) If it is evil - rebuke it but tolerate it.
3) If it threatens your existence - destroy it before it destroys you. This is self defense, which both the individual and society have a right and responsibility to do.

The first two are from the New Testament of the Bible and represent the Law of Love. The third is from the Old Testament of the Bible and represents the Law of Purity/Self Defense. The New Testament deals more with personal responsibility and the Old Testament deals more with the preservation of society. The Old Testament and the New Testament together present God's Law, a means of survival for a person, a nation and a world. No one should be forced to be a Christian, but all should be judged by Civil Law based on Christian Principles.

Clirus, have you or have you not advocated that homosexuality and many many other things should be crimes punishable by death?

You have, right? So you DO want them executed. Right? You do consider them a threat to America as a "Christian nation", don't you? Never mind that the US is not officially a Christian nation...

 

[clirus]

Clirus, have you or have you not advocated that homosexuality and many many other things should be crimes punishable by death?

You have, right? So you DO want them executed. Right? You do consider them a threat to America as a "Christian nation", don't you? Never mind that the US is not officially a Christian nation...

That is not a correct statement.

What I stated was that Civil Law should consider homosexual activity as a evil/crime that should be punishable by death because homosexual activity is a threat to health and safety of society. AIDS, which is transmitted by homosexual activity, is already considered to be criminal behavior in some states in America.

The Bible warned about homosexuality, and now the Bible has been proven correct.

I believe there are many other crimes that should be punishable by death through Civil Law.

I believer homosexual activity to be a threat to America and the world as proven by the two million death per year due to AIDS.

 

[Ar Cosc]

That is not a correct statement.

What I stated was that Civil Law should consider homosexual activity as a evil/crime that should be punishable by death because homosexual activity is a threat to health and safety of society. AIDS, which is transmitted by homosexual activity, is already considered to be criminal behavior in some states in America.

The Bible warned about homosexuality, and now the Bible has been proven correct.

I believe there are many other crimes that should be punishable by death through Civil Law.

I believer homosexual activity to be a threat to America and the world as proven by the two million death per year due to AIDS.

Lesbian women have the lowest rate of AIDS transmission and infection.

And AIDS is transmissible by heterosexual activity as well. It's also transmitted by giving birth to children, and coming into contact with bodily fluids.

If anybody is a threat to America, it is you, Clirus. 2 million a year die of AIDS, but you would execute literally billions, and you think homosexuals are evil? The mind boggles!

 

[Archaeopteryx]

What I stated was that Civil Law should consider homosexual activity as a evil/crime that should be punishable by death because homosexual activity is a threat to health and safety of society. AIDS, which is transmitted by homosexual activity, is already considered to be criminal behavior in some states in America.

The Bible warned about homosexuality, and now the Bible has been proven correct.

I believe there are many other crimes that should be punishable by death through Civil Law.

I believer homosexual activity to be a threat to America and the world as proven by the two million death per year due to AIDS.

Clirus... hate to burst your bubble but (and this is a big and important but)...

HIV/AIDS is transmitted through sexual activity, not just of the homosexual variety, but of the heterosexual variety also. You can't use AIDS as a justification for oppressing homosexuals when AIDS also affects heterosexuals and, as Ar Cosc has pointed out, lesbian women are reported to have the lowest rates of HIV transmission and infection. This argument of yours has already been refuted before, time and time again. One wonders why you obstinately stick to a point that has been refuted a thousand times and more.

 

[TheReasoner]

That is not a correct statement.

What I stated was that Civil Law should consider homosexual activity as a evil/crime that should be punishable by death because homosexual activity is a threat to health and safety of society. AIDS, which is transmitted by homosexual activity, is already considered to be criminal behavior in some states in America.

The Bible warned about homosexuality, and now the Bible has been proven correct.

I believe there are many other crimes that should be punishable by death through Civil Law.

I believer homosexual activity to be a threat to America and the world as proven by the two million death per year due to AIDS.

The bble is significantly stricter about hospitality and greed. As Ezekiel describes Sodom and Gomorrah the sins which caused their fall was their greed, selfishness and lack of hospitality. Not homosexuality.

Funny how you're stricter about homosexuality than greed and selfishness.

Furthermore, have you considered the dangers obesity represent? That is a really harmful disease which usually results from gluttony, another grave sin. Should all obese people be executed because they represent a threat to the USA?

Clirus, what you are advocating here is high degree eugenics.

 

[clirus]

The bble is significantly stricter about hospitality and greed. As Ezekiel describes Sodom and Gomorrah the sins which caused their fall was their greed, selfishness and lack of hospitality. Not homosexuality.

Funny how you're stricter about homosexuality than greed and selfishness.

Furthermore, have you considered the dangers obesity represent? That is a really harmful disease which usually results from gluttony, another grave sin. Should all obese people be executed because they represent a threat to the USA?

Clirus, what you are advocating here is high degree eugenics.

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of greed, lack of hospitality and homosexuality.

I believe the Bible is more strict about physical sin than spiritual sin as shown by the following verses from the Bible.

Galatians 5:19-23, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkness, revellings, and such like: of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in the time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. — But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

These verses indicate the physical "works of the flesh" are very serious and that the person will not inherit the kingdom of God. Yet for the spiritual "fruits of the spirit" there is no indication the person will not inherit the kingdom of God if the spiritual "fruits of the spirit" are violated.

Both lust and adultery are sins, but spiritual lust is far less serious than physical adultery.

I would feel a lot safer having a neighbor that talked about killing than a neighbor that just killed someone.

I really don't understand why you are trying to defend homosexuality.

PS By the concept of tolerance, there are many things that are not a threat to society, but society should rebuke the evil behavior and defiantly not rewards the evil behavior by health care/welfare/entitlement programs. Overeating is only a threat to society when society tries to pay for the bills associated with the overeating choice by the person.

 

[TheReasoner]

I believe Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of greed, lack of hospitality and homosexuality.

Read the bible. Their lack of caring for the poor and the weak was among the reasons. Of course it's a bad example regardless, Lot's offering up his virgin daughters to be gang-raped to ensure his guests remained unmolested hardly seems like a just and worthy way of looking at things. It is also interesting how the bible basically appears to rate the sins thusly:
gangrape less than homosexual gangrape less than not caring for the poor.
Of course, as you seem to be a rather fervent advocate of the following three statements, only substitute satan with the clirusian church...
"4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!"
From what I know of satanists (from the ones I have known) you'd fit right in, if you were just a hedonist as well as vengeful and socio-darwinist.

I believe the Bible is more strict about physical sin than spiritual sin as shown by the following verses from the Bible.

Galatians 5:19-23, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkness, revellings, and such like: of which I tell you before, as I have also told you in the time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. — But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

(my emphasis)
You reject love, and you reject goodness, longsuffering and gentleness. Do you not? Those are for the weak, right?

These verses indicate the physical "works of the flesh" are very serious and that the person will not inherit the kingdom of God. Yet for the spiritual "fruits of the spirit" there is no indication the person will not inherit the kingdom of God if the spiritual "fruits of the spirit" are violated.

Ah, so you're OK with just kicking Jesus' love and teachings and fruits out of the equation, so long as you don't drink (to excess), fornicate, steal and whatnot?

If you love God Clirus, you'll seek to be like Him. "Seek first the kingdom of God" the bible says. Seek communion with Him on His terms. Not your own. Human beings fall into hate so easily. But Jesus taught love. Even to those who do not deserve it. The exception to His own merciful and loving demeanor was the pharisees. Religious conservative holier-than-thou hypocrites who defiled God's name. Them, and people who sought to profit off of God.
You belong to one group, and as I understand it you're a really strong advocate for the second.

Both lust and adultery are sins, but spiritual lust is far less serious than physical adultery.

Sure, in consequences yes. But a sin is a sin. All need repentance.

I would feel a lot safer having a neighbor that talked about killing than a neighbor that just killed someone.

I'd feel safest if my neighbor did or had done neither.

I really don't understand why you are trying to defend homosexuality.

I am not. I pointed to a problem with your interpretation. Besides, Jesus loves them, too. Just as He loves every sinner around. Why do you expose them to so much hatred? Jesus died for their absolution, should they choose to accept that. So why this hatred? Do you think you're any better? According to the earlier books in the bible the sins you are guilty of, social favoritism and uncaring, hateful treatment of the weak in society has caused cities to be burned. Homosexuality has not. If it had, then why isn't - for example - Amsterdam burned to the ground? THat city is rather full of hedonists after all.

PS By the concept of tolerance, there are many things that are not a threat to society, but society should rebuke the evil behavior and defiantly not rewards the evil behavior by health care/welfare/entitlement programs. Overeating is only a threat to society when society tries to pay for the bills associated with the overeating choice by the person.

And how well does that work? It doesn't.
AGAIN I point out that the US is more sinful in it's people's behavior than the scandinavian nations are. Perhaps one reason is the socialistic welfare systems which gives people more of what they need, while not emphasizing and playing on fear at every bend and curve.

I am not at all convinced you believe in Jesus' message Clirus. Your position is parallel to Lavey's satanic position on certain rather anti-christian points as outlined before. Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. To love our enemies and do good to them. You'd have them nuked. Killed to the last man. You'd withhold care and aid from people who are not christians - according to your twisting of the bible. That's not Christian. If you truly believed, would you not trust in God's mindset and teachings more than your own hatred?