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Question regarding Calvinism

frumanchu

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intricatic said:
I dunno if this is the right place to post this, but I had some questions I'd like to throw out there. I haven't had much opportunity to explore Calvinism yet - I have a few books on order [ specifically This Book, and This Book] - but I was wondering whether Calvinism isn't just the 5 T.U.L.I.P. statements, or is it something more?

If it's something more, what else is entailed within Calvinism that sets it aside from other theological systems?

In the majority of theological discussions you will hear here, Calvinism is the common name for the TULIP acrostic. As has been pointed out though, Calvin was not the direct author of that acrostic. It is essentially a summary of the response of the Reformed churches in Europe at the Synod of Dordt to the Five Articles of the Remonstrance as presented by the followers of Arminius.

The definition of what is and is not "Calvinism" usually depends upon the context of the conversation, but the normal understanding encompasses the five soteriological points represented in the TULIP acrostic.

As far as reading, I highly recommend the following books:

Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul
The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner
Grace Alone: The Heart of Reformed Theology by R.C. Sproul

And of course Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (though be warned it is a heavy read)
 
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intricatic

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frumanchu said:
In the majority of theological discussions you will hear here, Calvinism is the common name for the TULIP acrostic. As has been pointed out though, Calvin was not the direct author of that acrostic. It is essentially a summary of the response of the Reformed churches in Europe at the Synod of Dordt to the Five Articles of the Remonstrance as presented by the followers of Arminius.

The definition of what is and is not "Calvinism" usually depends upon the context of the conversation, but the normal understanding encompasses the five soteriological points represented in the TULIP acrostic.

As far as reading, I highly recommend the following books:

Chosen by God by R.C. Sproul
The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner
Grace Alone: The Heart of Reformed Theology by R.C. Sproul

And of course Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion (though be warned it is a heavy read)
I have no qualm about a heavy read, so long as it's a good heavy read. ;)

I'll put those on my list, as well.

So Calvinism is essentially just those five soteriological positions?
 
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frumanchu

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intricatic said:
I have no qualm about a heavy read, so long as it's a good heavy read. ;)

I'll put those on my list, as well.

So Calvinism is essentially just those five soteriological positions?

That is most often the meaning when you see the term used in theological discussions. Again, it really depends on the context of the conversation.

Hang around here with us for a bit and you'll get a better feel for it :)
 
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GrinningDwarf

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intricatic said:
So Calvinism is essentially just those five soteriological positions?

They are a large part of it, but I don't think it's just those five soteriological positions.

I've only been studying Reformed theology for about five years, and have only been convinced of it's truth for about the last three. At first I thought it was only those five points, but lately I've been learning more about what is called 'covenant theology', which plays a large part in most Reformed theologies. In addition to those three books mentioned (which I would have recommended as well, btw, if I hadn't been beaten to it! :D ), I would also recommend Michael Horton's God of Promise: Introducing Covenant Theology.
 
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Ryft

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I can't believe my post (from a couple days ago) didn't make it through. What a disappointment. Much of what I had said in that post has now been said by others so I won't bother reposting it. Instead, I'll write an original post.

intricatic said:
I was wondering whether Calvinism isn't just the 5 T.U.L.I.P. statements, or is it something more?
It is something considerably 'more'.

One must understand that the acrostic TULIP is an extremely condensed mnemonic of The Canons of Dort (or by its full and proper title, The Decision of the Synod of Dordrecht on the Five Main Points of Doctrine in Dispute in the Netherlands, a synod which took place for seven months in 1618); the Canons of Dort, of course, served as the five articles (or "heads of doctrine") against the Remonstrants of 1610. These canons ("decisions, judgments") are very lengthy, very precise, but perhaps more importantly they are very specific. In other words, these canons were never intended to present Protestant Reformation theology; they were intended to address—strictly and specifically—the semi-Pelagian heresies of the Arminians (Remonstrants) that were beginning to spread throughout the Dutch Reformed churches (referred to as the Quinquarticular Controversy). As W.J. Seaton describes it, these five heresies were:
1. "Free will, or human ability. This taught that man, although affected by the Fall, was not totally incapable of choosing spiritual good, and was able to exercise faith in God in order to receive the gospel and thus bring himself into possession of salvation."

2. "Conditional election. This taught that God laid His hands upon those individuals who He knew (or foresaw) would respond to the gospel. God elected those that He saw would want to be saved of their own free will and in their natural fallen state—which was, of course, according to the first point of Arminianism: not completely fallen anyway."

3. "Universal redemption, or general atonement. This taught that Christ died to save all men; but only in a potential fashion. Christ's death enabled God to pardon sinners, but only on condition that they believed."

4. "The work of the Holy Spirit in regeneration limited by the human will. This taught that the Holy Spirit, as He began to work to bring a person to Christ, could be effectually resisted and His purposes frustrated. He could not impart life unless the sinner was willing to have this life imparted."

5. "Falling from grace. This taught that a saved man could fall finally from salvation. It is, of course, the logical and natural outcome of the system. If man must take the initiative in his salvation, he must retain responsibility for the final outcome."​
Most people are surpised to learn that it was Arminianism that first developed the "five points," not Calvinism. The five heads of doctrine of The Canons of Dort were simply a response to the five articles of the Remonstrance. (It should also be noted that the acrostic TULIP was a much later development; that acrostic did not exist in the 17[sup]th[/sup] century.) But the theology of the Protestant Reformation encompasses much more than these five issues. For instance, TULIP does not tell us anything about the nature of Christ, the powers of the civil magistrate, the canon of Scriptures, the nature of church life, the obligations of marriage, and so forth—yet Reformed theology engages all these issues and more.

To get a more complete view of Reformed theology, I would recommend reading their creeds and confessions of faith. The most recognizable in name, of course, would be The Westminster Standards (The Westminster Confession of Faith plus the Larger and Shorter Catechisms, 1647); I would also recommend The Belgic Confession (1561), The Heidelberg Catechism (1563), and The French Confession (1559, prepared by John Calvin and his pupil Antoine de la Roche Chandieu); this is in addition to the other recommendations you have received so far (e.g. Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion—which, by the way, is available in MS Help file format here).

I would also recommend downloading the Reformed Confessions 3.0, which is an MS Windows Help file "that contains many of the historic and Reformed Christian creeds, confessions, and catechisms": The Apostles' Creed, The Nicene Creed, The Athanasian Creed, The Chalcedonian Creed, The Three Forms of Unity, The Belgic Confession, The Canons of Dort, The Heidelberg Catechism, The Westminster Standards (The Westminster Confession of Faith, The Larger Catechism, The Shorter Catechism), The French Confession, The Second Helvetic Confession, The Waldensian Confession, The Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, The Savoy Declaration of Faith and Order, The London Confession of Baptist Faith, The Children's Catechism, The Shorter Catechism, The Lausanne Covenant, The Manila Manifesto, The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy.
 
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Virgil the Roman

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by reformed and calvinistic churches, what kind of churches are these? I know very little about Calvinism, except it's double predistanation doctrine, of which I reject in favor of Arminian view of it, but anywho, i would greatly appreciate if someone could give me the lowdown on Reformed Churches, please?
 
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Ryft

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Ravenonthecross said:
by reformed and calvinistic churches, what kind of churches are these?
There are different churches with different names; more often than not the name of the church is specific to its location (e.g. my church is called Kelowna Christian Reformed Church [CRC]). A church that is "Reformed" or "Calvinistic" is a church that affirms the doctrines of grace (e.g. the "five solas"; cf. The Cambridge Declaration) and, generally speaking, adheres to "confessional subscription," which means they subscribe to a particular confession (e.g. The London Confession of Baptist Faith). This may not always be the case, but it generally holds true. What is true in every single case, however, is their adherence to the doctrines of grace. A church that does not adhere to the doctrines of grace is not a Reformed or Calvinistic church.
 
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heymikey80

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Ravenonthecross said:
by reformed and calvinistic churches, what kind of churches are these? I know very little about Calvinism, except it's double predistanation doctrine, of which I reject in favor of Arminian view of it, but anywho, i would greatly appreciate if someone could give me the lowdown on Reformed Churches, please?
For background on Calvinism, there are single-predestination views in Reformed doctrine. I forget the guy's name (not a big fan), but I think it was Emil Brunner who developed this view more-extensively.

The double-predestinarian view that is distinctively Calvinistic is not on the same basis as predestination of the elect, either. RC Sproul describes this view very well in his book, "Grace Unknown": that people aren't predestined by grace -- but by their own natures -- to reprobation, through the judgement of their own sinfulness.

Ultimately we all come to deal with a little comment of Peter's, "They stumble being disobedient to the message -- which is also what they were destined for." 1 Pt 2:8
 
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tulipbee

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intricatic said:
but I was wondering whether Calvinism isn't just the 5 T.U.L.I.P. statements, or is it something more?

Actually, its the enemies of the Bible that came up with the 5 points. The Arminians wrote the 5 points to share with some high level court of the kings. The Arminians wanted to show what the Calvinist folk believed by writing a list of comparison and it turned out to be the 5 points. The Calvinist took the 5 points and used it to explain their theologies. The Arminians lost in court and the Calvinist won due to the truthful theology that they preach. I guess back then the Luther theologies were popular.

TulipBee
 
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Zaznaykin

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tulipbee said:
Actually, its the enemies of the Bible that came up with the 5 points. The Arminians wrote the 5 points to share with some high level court of the kings. The Arminians wanted to show what the Calvinist folk believed by writing a list of comparison and it turned out to be the 5 points. The Calvinist took the 5 points and used it to explain their theologies. The Arminians lost in court and the Calvinist won due to the truthful theology that they preach. I guess back then the Luther theologies were popular.

TulipBee
I'm thinking of joining a Presbyterian church primarily because of its willingess to embrace the truth about 9/11. However, I don't believe that infants go to hell. How important is belief in Calvinism for Presbyterians?
 
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tulipbee

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Zaznaykin said:
I'm thinking of joining a Presbyterian church primarily because of its willingess to embrace the truth about 9/11. However, I don't believe that infants go to hell. How important is belief in Calvinism for Presbyterians?

I was surprised when I told a guy I was looking for a Calvinist church. He quikly defended the presby church and said it's not about Calvinism. Its about the Bible and the Word within it. Teaching the Word from the Bible is the Key. So , its not all about Calvism, Its about the Bible in the presby church

Tulipbee
 
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Zaznaykin

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tulipbee said:
I was surprised when I told a guy I was looking for a Calvinist church. He quikly defended the presby church and said it's not about Calvinism. Its about the Bible and the Word within it. Teaching the Word from the Bible is the Key. So , its not all about Calvism, Its about the Bible in the presby church

Tulipbee
Thanks, good to hear that.
 
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Imblessed

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Zaznaykin said:
I'm thinking of joining a Presbyterian church primarily because of its willingess to embrace the truth about 9/11. However, I don't believe that infants go to hell. How important is belief in Calvinism for Presbyterians?

you know, not all calvinists believe infants go to hell. It's a wee bit more than just black and white on that issue..... I wouldn't throw out calvinism because of that.

What do you mean when you say "it's willingness to embrace the truth about 9/11"?


just curious......
 
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heymikey80

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Zaznaykin said:
I'm thinking of joining a Presbyterian church primarily because of its willingess to embrace the truth about 9/11. However, I don't believe that infants go to hell. How important is belief in Calvinism for Presbyterians?
Huh? In point of fact that's a major exception all Calvinists take to their characterization:

From the formative Synod of the 5 Points of Calvinism:
Synod of Dordt said:
This explanation and rejection the Synod declares to be derived from God's Word and in agreement with the confessions of the Reformed churches. Hence it clearly appears that those of whom one could hardly expect it have shown no truth, equity, and charity at all in wishing to make the public believe [about Calvinists]:
* * *
-- that many infant children of believers are snatched in their innocence from their mothers' breasts and cruelly cast into hell so that neither the blood of Christ nor their baptism nor the prayers of the church at their baptism can be of any use to them; and very many other slanderous accusations of this kind which the Reformed churches not only disavow but even denounce with their whole heart.
 
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