Question re: Mennonite Churches

[ZiSunka]

For MC churches, getting a divorce before you get saved may be forgiven, under certain circumstances. It's best to ask a MC pastor how his church deals with divorce and remarriage. Adultery, abuse or abandonment can sometimes be considered grounds for divorce before salvation, plus, most MC churches interpret the words of Paul on divorce to mean that if you were divorced before you came to faith in Christ, it is not sin to remarry after you get saved. It's up to the individual church to set policy on the matter.

Beachy Amish never never never never allow remarriage after divorce, no matter what the circumstances. They consider a person to be married as long as the ex-spouse lives, even if there was adultery, abuse or abandonment.

I was divorced before I got saved, my ex-husband had a baby with another woman and set up a household with her while we were still together, too, following a long history of infidelity, and my ex-husband had remarried several times, but in their eyes, I was still married to him and would never be free to marry again until he died.

 

[MrJim]

interesting thread here...

 

[Danfrey]

MasonDixonDarlin,

I will be blunt. I spent 5 years searching for a conservative Mennonite church that would accept my marriage. It was my 3rd marriage after having two unfaithful wives.

The short answer is that you will not find a conservative Mennonite church that will allow you to remarry. I know this sounds very discouraging, but it is not nearly as discouraging as find a group of people you would like to fellowship with and then finding out it will never work.

 

[MasonDixonDarlin]

For MC churches, getting a divorce before you get saved may be forgiven, under certain circumstances. It's best to ask a MC pastor how his church deals with divorce and remarriage. Adultery, abuse or abandonment can sometimes be considered grounds for divorce before salvation, plus, most MC churches interpret the words of Paul on divorce to mean that if you were divorced before you came to faith in Christ, it is not sin to remarry after you get saved. It's up to the individual church to set policy on the matter.

You'll have to forgive me here, I'm not completely with the lingo. What are the MC churches? Would that be the liberal Mennonite churches?
There was couple at the last mennonite church that I attend that appeard to be more conservative but I didn't want to be rude and ask them personal questions about them being conservative and the church being more liberal.

My ex-husband just kind of up and left. He said he didn't want people depending on him and didn't like the responsibilities of being married. He wanted to sleep with lots of other women and live a bachelor's life.

 

[MasonDixonDarlin]

MasonDixonDarlin,

I will be blunt. I spent 5 years searching for a conservative Mennonite church that would accept my marriage. It was my 3rd marriage after having two unfaithful wives.

The short answer is that you will not find a conservative Mennonite church that will allow you to remarry. I know this sounds very discouraging, but it is not nearly as discouraging as find a group of people you would like to fellowship with and then finding out it will never work.

I appreciate your honesty. I've been hoping that by finding a church that I like and joining I would ultimately find a mate, so I would rather find a church that would allow me to find someone (and marry them) then find a church, join, meet someone I really like and not be able to make a life with them. If that makes sense.

 

[Danfrey]

It makes total sense. I am a widower now, but when Candice was alive, our journey in the conservative churches was very disappointing. I will try to help fill you in on some of the logo, as well as I can to help you identify churches. There are others on here who have been around the Mennonites much longer than I have, but I felt that I could offer some insight because I traveled the journey as a remarried person.

Mennonite USA is the largest Mennonite organisation. This what many of the conservative Mennonites would consider the "liberal Mennonites". It is pretty easy to identify these churches. The people that attend would normally dress like your average American. Most of the time you will not find ladies wearing a headcover and jewelry would not be uncommon. I was part of the Franconia conferance for a while which is a Mennonite USA conferance. Even though we held pretty conservative theology and lifestyle, we always felt welcome in their churches.

As far as I know, none of the conservative Mennonite churches would allow you to remarry. This would include the Eastern Mennonite Conference, the Mid-Atlantic Conference, Lancaster Conference, the Charity churches and their related churches, and the list goes on beyond what I am even aware of. From a purely outward appearance view, if all of the ladies wear dresses and cover there is a very good chance they are a conservative church. (This is not meant to be a judgement call, just trying to give some identifying characteristics)

If you intend to remarry, and you are drawn to a more conservative lifestyle, you will have to be content with being a conservative in a progressive (what some call liberal) Mennonite Church.

 

[MasonDixonDarlin]

As far as I know, none of the conservative Mennonite churches would allow you to remarry. This would include the Eastern Mennonite Conference, the Mid-Atlantic Conference, Lancaster Conference, the Charity churches and their related churches, and the list goes on beyond what I am even aware of. From a purely outward appearance view, if all of the ladies wear dresses and cover there is a very good chance they are a conservative church. (This is not meant to be a judgement call, just trying to give some identifying characteristics)

If you intend to remarry, and you are drawn to a more conservative lifestyle, you will have to be content with being a conservative in a progressive (what some call liberal) Mennonite Church.

I guess the thing that I don't quite get with that is how someone who wasn't raised Mennonite but would like to convert and live more conservatively can learn those things by joining a more liberal church? Maybe I can just go to some of the more conservative churches to learn but just won't be able to join.

I remember that Ashes said that the Amish forgive whatever took place before you join their church. Do outsiders ever really join their churches? I know that it's definetly not common around here and they don't exactly go out recruiting fresh blood.

 

[Danfrey]

There are so many questions that go with what you are asking. The easiest way for me to explain some of it is to share my experience and have you ask questions if they come up.

When I first became an Anabaptist, I was looking for a whole life conversion. I thought conservative meant black pants, white shirts, suspenders and total uniformity in the church. What I learned over time is that in churches were there is a uniform dress standard, people follow it because the church says so, rather than dressing the way they do because it is what scripture teaches. As time has passed, I have found that I still hold dearly to the idea of modesty, a lack of adornment (no jewelry, makeup, ties, etc) and simplicity. In the church I have been attending, there is no set uniform, but everyone dresses modestly. As far as discussing what modesty looks like, I have found my online discussions very helpful, but having contact with conservative Mennonites has definately influenced my views.

The most important thing is what scripture teaches about a given subject. If you are interested in learning more about conservative Mennonites, visit their churches, build friendships and fellowship with them. You will learn the good and not so good of the culture.

The best advice I can give when it comes to the Amish is that it is a very difficult road to enter that culture if you were not raised in it. You will find Mennonites much more open to converts. Unless you are specifically looking for a conservative Mennonite husband, I wouldn't let that be a big issue at this time. Just take the time to learn more about the faith and culture.

Again, let me say that you are getting this from one man's opinion. You may hear a totally different story from someone else. I will say that I don't regret converting to Anabaptist. I have found a denomination that is faithful to the teachings of Jesus.

 

[ZiSunka]

I guess the thing that I don't quite get with that is how someone who wasn't raised Mennonite but would like to convert and live more conservatively can learn those things by joining a more liberal church? Maybe I can just go to some of the more conservative churches to learn but just won't be able to join.

I remember that Ashes said that the Amish forgive whatever took place before you join their church. Do outsiders ever really join their churches? I know that it's definetly not common around here and they don't exactly go out recruiting fresh blood.

The true Amish don't usually accept converts very easily. The reasons are more cultural than religious.

Amish social structure is very tightly set up. Men have a set role, women have a set role, children have a set role. Outsiders find it very difficult to accept these roles without trying to change them because the roles are so rigid and sometimes unpleasant. For instance, Amish women are not allowed to talk to men they are not related to. Even if someone pulls up to an Amish farm to ask directions, the woman will send one of the children to help them. I once went to a yard sale at an Amish home with my Joe, and he saw some gadget hadn't seen before, so he asked what it was, and none of the women there could answer him, they could only act like he wasn't even there. I asked, and they told me. Most non-Amish women don't accept this prohibition from speaking to men and try to change the Amish traditions.

A man I know who tried to become Amish was not accepted because he was a teacher and Amish men are not allowed to be school teachers. That's women's work. They wanted him to become a woodworker or a house painter, but he was terrible at those things. They finally told him he couldn't be baptized because he refused to conform to their very narrow and rigid roles. I could provide other examples, but you get the point.

They will allow you to attend their services, up to a point. Typically, you will always be treated as an outsider, and most Amish communities will not allow an outsider to marry an insider, divorced or not divorced. Marriage has a way of adversely affecting the community because the Amish spouse ends up converting to nonAmish after a time. The call of the outside world is too strong, and having an outsider spouse, even one willing to convert, makes the call louder and harder to resist.

They don't necessarily forgive everything YOU do before you join their church, they forgive whatever their own children do before THEY join.

The Amish are and always have been more or less a closed society.

Mennonite churches, though, tend to be very open and will probably accept you regardless of your past. They'll just think of your past as part of your testimony and will be more concerned with what you do after you are saved than before you were saved.

 

[Danfrey]

Mennonite churches, though, tend to be very open and will probably accept you regardless of your past. They'll just think of your past as part of your testimony and will be more concerned with what you do after you are saved than before you were saved.

Just to clarify this, the conservative Mennonites will accept you as long as you don't remarry.

 

[ZiSunka]

When I say Mennonite, I'm talking about the Mennonite church, not one of the many offshoots of anabaptism.

 

[Danfrey]

I listed about 4 or 5 conferences that would consider themselves Mennonite and have the blood lines to prove it. The term Mennonite covers a very large range of churches, not just Mennonite USA.

 

[~InHisHands~]

We must remember the NT teachings on divorce were directed at believers. Once we come to Christ our whole attitude and life should change and if both partners are practising Christians there should be no need for divorce. What non-believers do is another issue.

I tend to agree with you on this.

 

[MrJim]

I listed about 4 or 5 conferences that would consider themselves Mennonite and have the blood lines to prove it. The term Mennonite covers a very large range of churches, not just Mennonite USA.

Oh gee, not the blood lines...

It would be better if mennonite was a reflection of faith and not a result of breeding...

 

[ZiSunka]

I listed about 4 or 5 conferences that would consider themselves Mennonite and have the blood lines to prove it. The term Mennonite covers a very large range of churches, not just Mennonite USA.

Perhaps, but I was clarifying that when I use the term, I am talking about the Mennonite church, not the offshoots that may be more liberal or more conservative.

 

[ZiSunka]

Oh gee, not the blood lines...

It would be better if mennonite was a reflection of faith and not a result of breeding...

And in reality, it is.

Groups that feel the need to produce spiritual geneologies often miss the point of faith--which is not to be a member of the right church, but to be a member of the Body of Christ!

Although Mennonites might have a history, they don't really need a bloodline.

 

[MrJim]

And in reality, it is.

Groups that feel the need to produce spiritual geneologies often miss the point of faith--which is not to be a member of the right church, but to be a member of the Body of Christ!

Although Mennonites might have a history, they don't really need a bloodline.

The whole ethnic/family thing can be a real problem, especially (and I don't know how many times I heard it) when they ask you who you're related to. And I have a non-mennonite name and related to no one, but I'm at least able to drop a couple of names to sorta keep me in the conversation

 

[Danfrey]

I don't do well in the Mennonite name game, but I am finding that I come across the same names in the seekers circles. maybe we will ave a seekers name game one day.

 

[AndOne]

The true Amish don't usually accept converts very easily. The reasons are more cultural than religious.

Amish social structure is very tightly set up. Men have a set role, women have a set role, children have a set role. Outsiders find it very difficult to accept these roles without trying to change them because the roles are so rigid and sometimes unpleasant. For instance, Amish women are not allowed to talk to men they are not related to. Even if someone pulls up to an Amish farm to ask directions, the woman will send one of the children to help them. I once went to a yard sale at an Amish home with my Joe, and he saw some gadget hadn't seen before, so he asked what it was, and none of the women there could answer him, they could only act like he wasn't even there. I asked, and they told me. Most non-Amish women don't accept this prohibition from speaking to men and try to change the Amish traditions.

A man I know who tried to become Amish was not accepted because he was a teacher and Amish men are not allowed to be school teachers. That's women's work. They wanted him to become a woodworker or a house painter, but he was terrible at those things. They finally told him he couldn't be baptized because he refused to conform to their very narrow and rigid roles. I could provide other examples, but you get the point.

They will allow you to attend their services, up to a point. Typically, you will always be treated as an outsider, and most Amish communities will not allow an outsider to marry an insider, divorced or not divorced. Marriage has a way of adversely affecting the community because the Amish spouse ends up converting to nonAmish after a time. The call of the outside world is too strong, and having an outsider spouse, even one willing to convert, makes the call louder and harder to resist.

They don't necessarily forgive everything YOU do before you join their church, they forgive whatever their own children do before THEY join.

The Amish are and always have been more or less a closed society.

Mennonite churches, though, tend to be very open and will probably accept you regardless of your past. They'll just think of your past as part of your testimony and will be more concerned with what you do after you are saved than before you were saved.

Forgive the intrusion of this non-anabaptist - but living close to Lancaster I had to comment on this (as there are quite a few Amish folks around me).

I've been getting very acquainted with this group of folks lately - and I for the life of me have had some casual conversations with Amish women. All small talk of course: you know - wheather, gardening, crops, etc. Still my experience as a male "english" has been very different than the one described. Perhaps they are loosening up in this area - which I hear happens from time to time regarding some things. Also - it might be because I'm local which could possibly make a difference.

Still - I agree it would be hard to join them - they speak a strange form of German dialect amongst themselves and especially at their church services (which they hold in their homes) that I think would be extremely hard to learn.

I believe (but am not certain) I have come across a family here that converted from "english" to Amish. Don't know their story but it was a joint decision of the husband and wife. They seem to be very happy. Husband/father is not a farmer - but paves roads... pretty cool....

 

[ZiSunka]

Forgive the intrusion of this non-anabaptist - but living close to Lancaster I had to comment on this (as there are quite a few Amish folks around me).

I've been getting very acquainted with this group of folks lately - and I for the life of me have had some casual conversations with Amish women. All small talk of course: you know - wheather, gardening, crops, etc. Still my experience as a male "english" has been very different than the one described. Perhaps they are loosening up in this area - which I hear happens from time to time regarding some things. Also - it might be because I'm local which could possibly make a difference.

Still - I agree it would be hard to join them - they speak a strange form of German dialect amongst themselves and especially at their church services (which they hold in their homes) that I think would be extremely hard to learn.

I believe (but am not certain) I have come across a family here that converted from "english" to Amish. Don't know their story but it was a joint decision of the husband and wife. They seem to be very happy. Husband/father is not a farmer - but paves roads... pretty cool....

The people you are describing sound like Beachy Amish. They dress the same, but have different cultural rules about speaking to men and having jobs with nonAmish employers.

They also readily accept outsiders who are willing to convert, much more readily than the Amish do.

Some Beachies even drive cars (black or dark blue ones usually) and have phones. As the Amish are becoming more liberal they seem more and more like Beachies and Beachies seem more like plain Amish.