Question re: Daniel 10:21-11:1

[JesusFreak877]

In looking at these 2 consecutive verses in the Book of Daniel (note taken from KJV):


Dan 10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the Scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Dan 11:1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.


Is there a time separation between these 2 verses or do they flow one after the other. I ask this because Daniel Chapter 10 in verse 1 refers to the 3rd year of Cyrus, King of Persia and Daniel Chapter 11:1 refers to first year of Darius, so I am confused by this.


The way I look at it, verses 10:20-11:1 are seamless with Michael assisting the angel who is speaking in his battle in the heavenlies against the "prince of persia" and then a "prince of greece" - who are demon angels and that this explains that the battle has been ongoing since the first year of Darius. Verse 11:2 begins the section explaining the vision referred to as the "truth" by the Angel, so 11:2 links with 10:21.

Dan 10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the Scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.
(Dan 11:2) Now I will tell you the truth. "Three more kings will arise in Persia, and the fourth will be far richer than the others. By the power he gains through his riches, he will stir up everyone against the kingdom of Greece.


Any comments would be welcome. Thanks and God bless.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[JesusFreak877]

Hi Valerie It's nice to be back - I got overwhelmed with time constraints and managing my studies but I have been continuing to study what we have been talking about and hope to continue to study on the forums as much as I can.

Thanks for reviewing this with me - I have been reviewing these chapters and for some reason I started to get confused at this part so your reply has really helped me.

So Chapter 10, 9, then 11-12 is the correct sequence. I see now how chapter 9 and 11 must be the same years when I looked at them in the correct sequence. I guess what was confusing me was my study bible had a reference to verses 10:20-11:

The heavenly being realizes that his fight with Persia's demonic guardian will be followed by a fight with Greece's demonic guardian. Only Michael assists him, and the battle has been ongoing since the first year of Darius.

Hence my confusion over the reference to the first year of Darius. What you said makes more sence since you have to see it in light of the correct sequence of 10, 9 then 11-12.

Thanks! I would love to learn more with you if you have the time as I am studying specific topics going one small piece at a time. I just finished the Book of Daniel and am studying Revelation and going back to the review of the sequence of the trumpet judgments, rapture at 7th trumpet, then Babylon and Harlot on the beast, etc. studies. So If you are interested, let me know what topic you would recommend. I will post a question along these lines in Eschatology. Hope to see you there soon when you have time. Thanks again.



God bless!
JesusFreak877

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[JesusFreak877]

Vinsight 4U! It's nice to be back studying with you.
This is a great review and you laid out the outline of Daniel so clearly. I have gone through a review of each section in the correct 10, 9, 11-12 order and I see the division between Chapters 7-8 (re: empires) and this new section beginning in Dan. 10 re: 2 visions for the latter days which are detailed in chapter 11.

I see how Chapter 10 starts a new section, it is clear when you transition from Dan. 8:26 – 10:1 –these are different sections.

Our clue that this section is for the latter days is here:

Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words [are] closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

I see the division here between the 2 visions in Chapter 10, the first one which led Daniel to mourn for 21 days and then a separate vision which relates to the Vile Man of Sin or little horn we have seen in previous chapters.

Daniel 10: 4 And in the four and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which [is] Hiddekel;

Keep in mind.......in chapter 10 though.......

Daniel is noted as mourning for three full weeks.

We then move to a weeks prophecy in chapter 9.

I see better the sequence here from Chapter 10 – 9 to 11 and then 12 so we can see the revelation of the details to the “truth – no strength vision” from Chapter 10.

Dan. 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;



Daniel 11: 1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, [even] I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.



Daniel 11: 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than [they] all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.



And also here:



In Daniel 9:23 – Gabriel tells Daniel to consider the vision:

At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew [thee]; for thou [art] greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 10: 1 In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing [was] true, but the time appointed [was] long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.





Pulling together:
Daniel 11:14 (The Vision)

And in those times there shall many stand up against the king of the south: also the robbers of thy people shall exalt themselves to establish the vision; but they shall fall.

Dan 10:14 (Thy people – Israel)

Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision [is] for [many] days.

Dan. 11:15 (no strength)

So the king of the north shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand, neither his chosen people, neither [shall there be any] strength to withstand.

Links with

Daniel 10:16

And, behold, [one] like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake, and said unto him that stood before me, O my lord, by the vision my sorrows are turned upon me, and I have retained no strength.

So we are building on a foundation of

3rd year of Cyrus -

.. 2 visions given in Chapter 10 which befall thy people in the latter days

..Daniel mourned 3 full weeks (translating into a vision which will represent 21 years as weeks represent years in the OT).

Looking at Chapter 9 to build on the foundation we see that Darius is the king, not Cyrus.

1st year of Darius

..(Chapter 9) – Jeremiah’s prophecy is discovered by Daniel – he ponders it, prays and Gabriel will explain but tells him to consider the vision (for the latter days). 70 Years will befall his people but only 66.5 have been completed. So something is yet unfinished from the Jeremiah prophecy.

Gabriel’s Prophecy of Weeks in Chapter 9:24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Must take place to finish the Jeremiah prophecy Daniel was praying about.

So Chapter 9 hooks into the same time as Chapter 11 as the being from Chapter 10 returns to Daniel and speaks in Daniel 11:14 of the latter days vision linked from Daniel 10:1

So we now can get details from this point about the first vision in Chapter 10. If I understand the next detail correctly – Chapter 11-15-19 will show that this vision we are wondering about from Chapter 10 concerns a war prior to the revealing of the man of sin, like you said who would be nebuchadnezzar II, the man of dark riddles in the second vision which comes in Daniel 11:21.

Thanks for laying this out for me! Also, it makes a lot of sense about the clues from Chapters 2-4 and Nebuchadnezzar - so the history part gives us many clues about the vile man of sin in the future, where he will come from and his nature, etc. The hazier part for me is the 1st vision laid out in Chapter 11 which I believe we previously discussed as a future war after the "robbers" fall at the end of the 21 years fulfillment of 11:14, so that would be my next piece to review if you agree; whenever you have time. Thanks again!

God bless!

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[JesusFreak877]

Hi Vinsight4u!

I've been busy with the other thread today keeping up with everyone's posts, so I just saw your replies here and will get back to you hopefully in the next day or so at the lastest (I am hoping on Tuesday). Talk to you soon! Thanks and God bless!

JesusFreak877

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[JesusFreak877]

Hi JesusFreak877

Sounds great, take your time, nobody expects you to respond in a matter of minutes or even the same day. I can't always do that either. I see you posting to others and go girl! I want to make sure you know something that I have told some people in the past years. Don't be overly concerned if you learned a particular insight from me as to the prophecies, because my notes are not copyrighted. I'm mostly just a typist for God. What you truly learn will involve special insight that truly only God can give you via the Holy Spirit. Let Him use you for His glory and I'll enjoy watching from the sidelines and praising Him for your progress {which I have days ago started to do}! As a person told me once., you are a light that God can use {as to my prophecy info} so shine girl shine!
I will help when I can to give a bit of guidance as you learn, but the Holy Spirit will just blow you away with how He can deeply put those things and more in your heart and mind!

Good morning Vinsight4U

First of all, I just want to thank you for your posts yesterday on this thread. Thanks also for your kind words - I think God calls people to study prophecy and teach it to others, and we are responsible being good stewards, especially in how we handle the truth God gives us. Before I came to CF, I really never went outside the box and took the time to work through scripture by scripture on my own to seek the direction of the Holy Spirit as to what is the truth here? You are so right that the Holy Spirit works in the heart when one allows Him to.

I agree with you that I have to take my time - so I will not rush to post until I feel I have fully gone through a topic or passage, etc. and really feel I have a good understanding . It's better to go piece by piece I think.

Second, I just went through your recent summaries scripture by scripture, particularly the good review of yoke scriptures connecting with Nebuchadnezzar II and how it ties in with the wrath in Revelation chapters 6 and 11. This really helped me with my other question in the Eschatology thread too! You are a good teacher in breaking down the pieces and building on the whole picture. I see how the pieces of the OT, from Jeremiah, Isaiah, particularly Daniel are key in understanding Revelation and that you can't isolate them from each other and have to study them together piece by piece.

Third, on to our topic - the part of Daniel 11:13-19, I like your approach to confusing passages - this summary here broke it down for me in an easy to follow way so I think this will help me in my working through the future scriptures we are studying.

So I get that the 2 visions in Daniel 10 - are detailed in Chapter 11. Verses 11:13-19 relate to the "now time going forward in the near future" as we approach the time of sorrows outlined in Matthew 24 and the King of the North will rise out of Iraq - moving into Israel when the robbers fall - so this is key event to watch out for. Plus Israel "loses her strength" during these times so she is vulnerable to this King. Then the remainder of Daniel up until verse 21 is an in between time of "false" peace for Israel until the 2nd vision is fulfilled - the vile man we have been talking about as the resurrected Nebuchadnezzar II.

Your additional summary posts re: Nebuchadnezzar were very helpful. So history gives us clues to what to expect in the future when these visions come to pass. I agree that the man of sin in the future woul dhave to fit this pattern as in out of Iraq and as in Nebuchadnezzar II.

I will go see your next post now since you pretty much covered my questions up to this point so I am open to any topics you feel like discussing. Thanks!

God bless!

 

[JesusFreak877]

JesusFreak877

You mentioned in a post under here about starting other topics and then dealing with those subjects one at a time.
That'd be great. We need people to see the correct timing for the rapture if they are going to listen to us as to much else, especially deeper things as to the endtimes.

Agreed! As you know, I had started the other thread in Eschatology with the intent of studying the timeline of Revelation from a post-trib perspective, but it may have gotten off topic a bit. My intent was to do a thread on the correct timing for the rapture so I will go over there in a bit and see where we are at in that discussion. If it get's off topic too far, maybe I should re-post the question or specific mini-topics within the time line of the book of Revelation relating to the rapture timing?

You also mentioned as to the harlot on the beast.

the beast that carrieth her

I see that pertaining to how this harlot...the mother of harots city.....Tyre, Lebanon is tied to a prophecy that requires the Babylonian king to be back.
thus he carries her

beast that thou sawest
was and is not

Isaiah 23:15......tells how Tyre is forgotten years according to a king.

Interesting! I need to study Isaiah more, but I can see how this would fit here. I remember you had shown me a scripture that Jerusalem is not the harlot which further points it it to Tyre. I don't have my highlighted bible in front of me but it was an OT scripture. Thanks!