Question-Please read

[alwaysquestioning]

Hey Guys!

Ok here it goes.

Why are so many Christians so stinkin leagalistic? If you look at the Bible closely you will notice that that is not what it teaches!
It seems to me that when someone first becomes a Christian they are so concerned about if they do this or that,that they are missing what God is really all about. Not only are they worried,but other Christians are telling them the same things. They might not be telling them with words,but of looks of distain.
I think it is about time that this stops. It simply does not serve a purpose. It is only a distraction that leads away from Gods love,forgiveness,and peace!
Oswald Chambers says it best;
July 23-Title of Sanctification


The Life Side. The mystery of sanctification is that the perfect qualities of Jesus Christ are imparted as a gift to me,not gradually,but instantly once I enter by faith into the realization that means nothing less than the holiness of Jesus becoming mine and being exhibited in my life.
The most wonderful secret of living a holy life does not lie in IMITATING Jesus, but in letting the perfect qualities of Jesus exhibit themselves in the human flesh. Sanctification is "Christ in you..."(Colossians 1:27). It is HIS wonderful life that is imparted to me in sanctification- imparted by faith as a sovereign gift of Gods grace. Am I willing for God to make sanctification as real in me as it is in His Word?
Sanctification means the impartation of the holy qualities of Jesus Christ to me. It is a gift of His patience,love,holiness,faith,purity,and godliness that is exhibited in and through every sanctified soul. Sanctification is an impartation,not an imitation. Imitation is something altogether different. The perfection of everything is in Jesus Christ, and the mystery of sanctification is that the perfect qualities of Jesus are at my disposal. Consequently, I slowly but surely begin to live a life of inexpressible order,soundness,and holiness-".....kept by the power of God..."(1Peter1:5)


Who are we to say that this or that is wrong. The Bible teaches us that everyone falls short of the glory of God. We are each just were God has planned for us to be at this time.
Try not to focus on other peoples sins. Focus instead on where you are with God.
Thanks for listening!

AQ


Last edited by alwaysquestioning

 

[debs]

Besides, doesnt Jesus say not to judge? Im sure theres plenty of christians that have grown up in a judgemental environment...I did. and somewhat adopted the same thought patterns However upon realising Jesus words (I think it was more the Holy Spirit at work in me..good old conviction eh?) that I was able to face those thoughts...and OH what freedom,,praising God always...He sets the captives free...

 

[TruelightUK]

You have a very valid point. Legalism is, I guess, a fruit of human insecurity; if we can lay down hard and fast rules then we can measure our progress and be sure of who is right and who is wrong - and it's always nice to think that others are doing worse than you! By contrast, if we are secure in our faith in God's grace then the 'pass/fail' criteria become less relevant. Not that resisting sin is any less important, but we recognise that none of us can ever 'save ourselves' and we are all alike 'sinners saved by grace'; when we fall short, our desire focuses on seeking God's help to get back up again - confident that it will be forthcoming - rather than bewailing our failures. We know we can do nothing without Him, so have no cause to be disillusioned when that is what happens! And, as His love is perfected in our hearts, we begin to earnestly desire that same divine help on behalf of those around us whom we see 'falling short' in any area; having ourselves received mercy, we desire mercy for others.

Anthony

 

[Thunderchild]

Now where is it written

"If you compare yourself with others you will become at once vain and bitter, for there will always be greater and lesser persons."

 

[aggie03]

When Christ told us that we are not to judge, He was referring to those who believed that they were able to determine your eternal judgment - notice He was speaking the Pharisees when He made that statement. Christ tells us to judge with a righteous judgment so that we may be able to determine what is righteous and what is unrighteous. Think about what your life would be like if you were not able to discern between what is right and what is wrong.

As for your question, I would pose a counter question:

Why are so many people liberal?

Where in the Bible does it say that God doesn't care what we do, that everyone who is a good person will go to heaven, so nothing really matters? When you consider the fact that we have been given the entire Bible, it makes sense that we are to use the entire Bible. The Old Testament is our tutor; it leads us to the Messiah. The New Testament is our New Covenant with God. In this Bible there is no darkness, for the Bible is of God, in whom there is no darkness (1 John 1:5). So it makes sense that something that is of God can contain no darkness, right?

Therefore, it would be my understanding that the Bible is the word of God, which contains the will of God, which contains the truth. My question is then why would you want to do anything that went against the will of God, something that wasn't the truth?

"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' "

-- Matthew 7:21-23

Just from reading this passage, it seems pretty clear to me that it is important that we try to follow the will of God. Does this mean that we all have to follow it perfectly - we can't. Romans 3:23 tells us that we all fall short of the glory of God, that's where His grace comes in. Does that give us the liberty to do anything that we want as long as we claim to be a Christian? Absolutely not! Romans covers that too:

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue sinning so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"

-- Romans 6:1-2

If we know that something is wrong, then we shouldn’t do it – we know that not following the will of God is considered by Him to be practicing lawlessness, so it seems to me that we are supposed to try and figure out what His will is so that we may live and worship accordingly.

 

[Julie]

AQ, but what about the GRACE of God bestowed on sinners through faith in the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ?

With privilege comes responsibility.

 

[ZiSunka]

Sometimes people think that ANY sort of discipline or devotion to godly living is legalism. They think that God doesn't care about sin anymore, and that since all our sins are already forgiven, it doesn't matter how we live.

What Jesus said about judging was that we shouldn't try to tell God who should and who shouldn't go to heaven, not that we should never correct or instruct each other. The Bible also says that we should "spur each other on" to greater things, more holy living, etc.

"So then, get rid of lies. Speak the truth to each other, because we are all members of the same body. "

"Place yourselves under each other's authority out of respect for Christ. "

Correcting each other is what makes us smarter and stronger in the faith. It's not legalistic to lovingly point out where we have departed from truth!

 

[alwaysquestioning]

Guys!
I think that you are misunderstanding what I am trying to say here.

Do I think that we should go and do horrible things just because we are saved? Not at all!
I feel that it is Christs job to be our judges! Are we forgetting who Jesus socialized with? If
he were to judge them the way so many churches silently judge one another,then he would not have even socialized or even been near them.
Christ would have been content to be with the Pharasis!
I am not forgetting about grace at all. To the contrary I am suggesting it.

AQ

 

[ZiSunka]

Um, what?

 

[alwaysquestioning]

Lambslove,
Once again you have proven to me just how rude and inconsiderate you can be! Where is your love! To be honest with you, it is people just like you that have kept me away from church for 13 years. You are the very kind of person that I am speaking of in my original post. I really do not appreciate how rude you have been to me ever since I have come to this forum.
AQ

 

[ZiSunka]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly.

In what way have I been legalistic or rude to you?

I think that you are being rude in attacking me without explanation.

Which makes you the kind of person that you were talking about in your original post? Hmmm.

 

[aggie03]

AQ -

What did you mean when you said legalistic? I think that maybe you're defenition and mine might be different - have you read the previous post that I made?

 

[ZiSunka]

I was honestly not understanding her.

When I said "what?" I was honestly asking her to make her point clearer, because I couldn't understand what she was trying to say. I had no intention of being rude.

 

[aggie03]

that's cool - I understand how easy it is to misunderstand what someone has typed on here - we can't hear each other. So we put how we think someone would sound with what they've typed. It's very easy to take a statement, as happend in this example, and apply the wrong tone of voice with it. I was just trying to clear up her question for her.

 

[ZiSunka]

All I can say is what Jesus said to the woman taken in adultery:

"Go and sin no more."

If it's okay for us to live in sin without restraint, why did he say that? Was he being legalistic, just because he wanted her to change her ways?

 

[aggie03]

I agree with you - that's what I don't understand. I want to know what alwaysquestioning meant when she said that some people were legalistic - I don't understand what she meant by that

 

[alwaysquestioning]

Legalism-1 strict adherence,or the principle of strict adherence,to law or prescription,esp. to the letter rather than the spirit. 2 Theol. a. the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. b. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

This is the definition of legalism from Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary.

When I speak of legalism in the Church community I am referring to the do's and don'ts. I feel that Christianity is based on grace,not legalism.

I believe that Jesus can free us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness,but untill he does,we continue to be a slave to sin.The test is to try to go and sin no more. Don't forget that your thoughts count too! No sin is worse than another. If you break the least of the commandments you are guilty of breaking all of them.
why are your sins ok, and yet you sit and judge anothers. Remove the log in your own eye before you remove the speck in your brothers eye.
This is a process and not done by work,but by faith in our savior. Take your eyes off of what others do and let God expose our sin and remove our log first.

As far as what you did that was so rude to me,Lamslove, I asked on the bathing suit post why everone thought two-peices were so bad and this was your reply: What a crock! Some sick men might have lustful thoughts for women no matter what, but most men don't lust after every woman they see. But they do if she is nearly naked.

If you are happy being seen at the beach nearly naked, that's up to you. Some of us are more modest. Don't criticize us. But if you do go to the beach nearly naked, don't blame men for treating you like a tramp. You are dressed like one.




__________________
Lamb's Love

AQ

 

[Blessed-one]

====
can we get back to the question in this thread instead of wraggling over attitudes? Jesus tells us to love each other. Take ahold of yourself and forgive, it's not so hard to do.. at least we're not talking face to face um?

May God be the mediator and that we practise His commands more.
====

 

[Jenna]

Of course, I believe that legalism is an awful state. It strips away the greatness of God's grace. On the other hand, I've also seen people use the term incorrectly too. It seems as though there is a fine line between obedience and legalism, something that is tricky for some Christians to walk without accidentally stepping over. The only thing about this general topic that usually bugs me is how there are always people who are ready and willing to make judgement on one person's obedience and start throwing around the word "legalism". Has that ever happened to any of you?

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by alwaysquestioning
Legalism-1 strict adherence,or the principle of strict adherence,to law or prescription,esp. to the letter rather than the spirit. 2 Theol. a. the doctrine that salvation is gained through good works. b. the judging of conduct in terms of adherence to precise laws.

This is the definition of legalism from Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary.

When I speak of legalism in the Church community I am referring to the do's and don'ts. I feel that Christianity is based on grace,not legalism.

I believe that Jesus can free us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness,but untill he does,we continue to be a slave to sin.The test is to try to go and sin no more. Don't forget that your thoughts count too! No sin is worse than another. If you break the least of the commandments you are guilty of breaking all of them.
why are your sins ok, and yet you sit and judge anothers. Remove the log in your own eye before you remove the speck in your brothers eye.
This is a process and not done by work,but by faith in our savior. Take your eyes off of what others do and let God expose our sin and remove our log first.

As far as what you did that was so rude to me,Lamslove, I asked on the bathing suit post why everone thought two-peices were so bad and this was your reply: What a crock! Some sick men might have lustful thoughts for women no matter what, but most men don't lust after every woman they see. But they do if she is nearly naked.

If you are happy being seen at the beach nearly naked, that's up to you. Some of us are more modest. Don't criticize us. But if you do go to the beach nearly naked, don't blame men for treating you like a tramp. You are dressed like one.




__________________
Lamb's Love

AQ

 

Speaking out against near nudity in public is not legalism.  I thought you were the one being rude to us.  You were trying to make us feel guilty for not wanting to be nearly nude in public, but to be more modest and decent as we felt we should be as Christian women. 

I'm tired of some people trying to force their liberalisms on those of us who are more modest.  You were rudely jumping in on a discussion that was about modest bathing suits and interrupting without regard to the posts that had come before.  It was not a discussion about two piece suits, it was a discussion about being more covered up.  No one forced you to join the discussion, and it seemed that you were trying to hijack it to make us feel bad.

That's the reason I posted what I did.  I thought you were being a surly jerk and I was reflecting back what you were giving us.

I guess when St Paul talked about modesty among Christians, he was being legalistic, then, huh?