Question on the Holy Spirit and Biblical Interpretation

[aspie3000]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

 

[Tolworth John]

why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong?

Are they both spirit filled believers, are they actually listening to the Spirit and is the difference beytween them important?

Some people say that demonstrating the gifts of the spirit is vitally important, others concider it unimportant.
Do these two views matter?

 

[aspie3000]

Are they both spirit filled believers, are they actually listening to the Spirit and is the difference beytween them important?

Some people say that demonstrating the gifts of the spirit is vitally important, others concider it unimportant.
Do these two views matter?

"Does it matter?" is a sensible question, but the verse said it would lead them in to, "all truth." So my question is, is, "all truth" as all-encompassing as it sounds? If so, it does matter if everyone's on the same page.

 

[Tolworth John]

"Does it matter?" is a sensible question, but the verse said it would lead them in to, "all truth." So my question is, is, "all truth" as all-encompassing as it sounds? If so, it does matter if everyone's on the same page.

I understan 'All truth' to mean all we need to know about salvation.

 

[aspie3000]

I understan 'All truth' to mean all we need to know about salvation.

Good answer. Quite plausible.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Spirit-filled believers

could it be that there is two different spirits at work here

 

[Original Happy Camper]

"Does it matter?" is a sensible question, but the verse said it would lead them in to, "all truth." So my question is, is, "all truth" as all-encompassing as it sounds? If so, it does matter if everyone's on the same page.

"
Jesus only has one truth "all truth"

Satan has many different "all truth"

 

[SkyWriting]

"Does it matter?" is a sensible question, but the verse said it would lead them in to, "all truth." So my question is, is, "all truth" as all-encompassing as it sounds? If so, it does matter if everyone's on the same page.

The truth is that tolerating individual differences is the lesson the Holy Spirit wants us to learn.
Otherwise the Bible would just have just one page instead of 40 authors.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

The truth is that tolerating individual differences is the lesson the Holy Spirit wants us to learn.

so I am to tolerate false teaching? if there is a diffference then they are either both false or only one is false as there is only one truth

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

God allows different interpretations because we're like kids to Him. Kids have all sorts of ideas that they're passionate about, many about observing how their parents act and what that means.

Kids are supposed to have weird and amusing ideas, and in healthy situations, adults don't bother correcting them in most situations. This is just part of growing up, learning what you think about things. For now we reason like a child, but when we see God on His return, we will be like He is.

 

[Norbert L]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

By their fruits you shall know them. As long as a church teaches that Jesus existed, was crucified and and rose from the dead, a person is good to start their Christian journey. It's not a sprint it's a marathon.

When it comes to fruits the author of Jude makes an observation about the state of the Church and what its' earliest attendance was like.

"These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted" Jude 1:12 ESV Seems not everyone here is on the same page either.

To compound things even the apostles had to deal with the question, “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” Acts of the Apostles 15:1

The expectation that the church being attended today is beyond reproach as the one true Church of believers who have all truth in unison, isn't what is happening to the first believers and forgets the parable of the wheat and tares. After two thousands years every denomination has some kind of historical egg on their face as should be expected.

When it comes to the question, "if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology?" It assumes every Christian individual and by extension their organization must be genuinely 100% Spirit-filled 24/7 365 days throughout 2000 years of history. This is not the case, mistakes were being made soon after the day of Pentecost including by the apostles themselves. Galatians 2:14

In a manner of speaking you could say that unless your church has internal theological issues between its' members, you are not attending a Church of God.

 

[com7fy8]

How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

Well, Jesus Himself is "the truth", right? John 14:6. Plus, it is written > "the Spirit is truth," in 1 John 5:6.

So, I see how "all truth" could include how Jesus is. And the Holy Spirit in us, then, is changing us to become and to love like Jesus; and this is the main meaning of having "all truth".

So truth can include the true reality of God doing in us all He means by His word.

God allows different interpretations because we're like kids to Him.

Well, possibly ideas are not the main meaning of "all truth". How we are becoming in our character is what is most important.

Plus, it is possible that two people have correct ideas, but they do not understand each other, so they could be disagreeing with what one another is saying that is correct! Also, of course, both sides of an argument can be wrong.

Each one could have a different aspect . . . like how the proverbial blind men each was handling a different part of the elephant; and so they could disagree with what each one was saying is an elephant.

By their fruits you shall know them.

Fruits can be our good works. And there is the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians 5:22-26) which I would say has to do with how our character needs to become.

 

[Randy777]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

my take
Any guidance received from above via the Spirit would be truth. So on opposing views the one who is in error would have another source for what they teach and believe is true. That is not everyone's theology comes directly from the Spirit but has been influenced by the prior teachings of man in regard to theology.

 

[BobRyan]

why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

Many examples of that in the NT and in almost all of them no supposedly infallible church council meets to decide the matter.

John 16:
“These things I have spoken to you so that you will not be led into sin. 2 They will ban you from the synagogue, yet an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering a service to God.

Phil 3:4 although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

Matt 16:
21 From that time Jesus began to point out to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go to Jerusalem and to suffer many things from the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised up on the third day. 22 And yet Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “God forbid it, Lord! This shall never happen to You!” 23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s purposes, but men’s.”

Acts 15:
36 After some days Paul said to Barnabas, “Let’s return and visit the brothers and sisters in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also. 38 But Paul was of the opinion that they should not take along with them this man who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 Now it turned into such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. 40 But Paul chose Silas, and left after being entrusted by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41 And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

Gal 2:11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of some men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and separate himself, fearing those from the circumcision. 13 The rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy.

==========================

Christ slam-hammers the supposedly infallible nation-church tradition and councils of his day - this way

Mark 7:
6 But He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you hypocrites, as it is written:
‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

============================

Acts 15 is a great example of a church council ordained by God that does settle a sharp dispute in the church - but as we see in the examples above - that is not how they all are settled -- in many cases we see one person involved in the correction rather than an entire church council and that includes one person in Mark 7 hammering nation-church tradition.

 

[Zao is life]

Well, Jesus Himself is "the truth", right? John 14:6. Plus, it is written > "the Spirit is truth," in 1 John 5:6.

So, I see how "all truth" could include how Jesus is. And the Holy Spirit in us, then, is changing us to become and to love like Jesus; and this is the main meaning of having "all truth".

So truth can include the true reality of God doing in us all He means by His word.

Well, possibly ideas are not the main meaning of "all truth". How we are becoming in our character is what is most important.

Plus, it is possible that two people have correct ideas, but they do not understand each other, so they could be disagreeing with what one another is saying that is correct! Also, of course, both sides of an argument can be wrong.

Each one could have a different aspect . . . like how the proverbial blind men each was handling a different part of the elephant; and so they could disagree with what each one was saying is an elephant.

Fruits can be our good works. And there is the "fruit of the Spirit" (Galatians 5:22-26) which I would say has to do with how our character needs to become.

I partially agree and partially disagree.

How to be meek and becoming in our character is also by not lecturing others too often on being becoming in character, knowing that we all fall short:

Matthew 7
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why do you look on the splinter that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
4 Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the splinter out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
5 Hypocrite! First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye.

So we have to maintain a balance. Jesus is the truth. Doctrine should be a reflection of truth. Not everyone agrees with what correct doctrine is, so not allowing for disagreements is shaky ground, and ignoring false doctrine for the sake of the bond of unity in love is not what Christ means in His sermon on the Mount for us to do.

Neither does He mean us to keep lecturing others/pointing it out to others, but to take it to heart, each individual personally, and ensure we do as He says.

How we are becoming in our character is what is most important.

Though it's true, repetitively pointing it out to others over and over again instead of merely taking it to heart ourselves is not what Jesus means by meekness, I'm sure.

When we do it repetitively, it's starts to come across as judgmental and accusative rather than exhorting and encouraging.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

Welcome to CF! One should first define a " genuinely Holy Spirit filled Christian ".We know God is not the author of confusion. We also know there is only one truth. It is up to the individual questioning whether something is from Gospel truth or from the doctrines of men. We must search out the scriptures for our answers. The Holy Spirit will always lead us into truth if we ask Him and are open to His direction.
Blessings

 

[Randy777]

I partially agree and partially disagree.

How to be meek and becoming in our character is also by not lecturing others too often on being becoming in character, knowing that we all fall short:

Matthew 7
2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why do you look on the splinter that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
4 Or how will you say to your brother, Let me pull the splinter out of your eye; and, behold, a beam is in your own eye?
5 Hypocrite! First cast the beam out of your own eye, and then you shall see clearly to cast the splinter out of your brother's eye.

So we have to maintain a balance. Jesus is the truth. Doctrine should be a reflection of truth. Not everyone agrees with what correct doctrine is, so not allowing for disagreements is shaky ground, and ignoring false doctrine for the sake of the bond of unity in love is not what Christ means in His sermon on the Mount for us to do.

Neither does He mean us to keep lecturing others/pointing it out to others, but to take it to heart, each individual personally, and ensure we do as He says.

Though it's true, repetitively pointing it out to others over and over again instead of merely taking it to heart ourselves is not what Jesus means by meekness, I'm sure.

When we do it repetitively, it's starts to come across as judgmental and accusative rather than exhorting and encouraging.

example
Some hold to a pretribulation rapture. I do NOT.
What does that difference have to do with what you wrote?

 

[Albion]

Welcome to CF! One should first define a " genuinely Holy Spirit filled Christian ".

For purposes of answering the question put to us, that would be any church which fits the description that was referred to in the Original Post along with any member who believes such teachings.

It is up to the individual questioning whether something is from Gospel truth or from the doctrines of men. We must search out the scriptures for our answers. The Holy Spirit will always lead us into truth if we ask Him and are open to His direction.
Blessings

 

[SkyWriting]

so I am to tolerate false teaching? if there is a difference then they are either both false or only one is false as there is only one truth

Gosh. Yes.

Scores of passages say you must. For this reason the written law is obsolete.
Written law is only useful with a small population. As the population grows
larger, then internal laws must be followed and codified by local secular law.

Notice how the laws Jesus held were displaced by local law. Jesus
died to make this point.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Gosh. Yes.

Scores of passages say you must. For this reason the written law is obsolete.
Written law is only useful with a small population. As the population grows
larger, then internal laws must be followed and codified by local secular law.

Notice how the laws Jesus held were displaced by local law. Jesus
died to make this point.

I do not believe as you do and I do not believe you can support your position from the word of GOD