Question on Salvation

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 13, 2002

Originally posted by Gabriel
You know what? You two are just to smart for me. how can i ever hope to compete with such superior knowledge of the scripture. Excuse me while I begin to assume, read out of context and let my pride and need to have control cloud biblical truth and fact.

Maybe I'll even switch denoms.

Did you say something about Pride? Why do you take correction so personally? Is it because you are a "Ruling Elder" at your church?

Does being a ruling Elder mean that YOU have control of Biblical Truth?

Gabriel · Dec 13, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
Did you say something about Pride? Why do you take correction so personally? Is it because you are a "Ruling Elder" at your church?

Does being a ruling Elder mean that YOU have control of Biblical Truth?

Not at all. I guess the source of my distress is that you both act as if context has no bearing on the meaning of scripture. As I asked before, if I say to my Sunday School class, "I hope you all can be here next Sunday." Am I talking to just the people whom I address or am I talking to every single pewrson in the world. Context is everything. The thing about this is, I used to believe the same stuff you believe about choices, salvation, etc. The truth of the scripture is what changed my mind, not my own opinion.

Often when you ask a question, you have a snide remark lying in wait for the answer. While you claim that you engage in these conversations to understand why we believe this way, you never just listen. You always argue. More often , I will answer what appears to be a question with scripture and expalanation only to have you extract a half of a sentence and say something silly which has little or nothing to do with your question or my answer.

I have 2 daughters. The oldest one was not breathing nor was her heart beating when she was born. She was revived and fell back into this state three times before she was considered out of danger. Had she died it would just kill me to not know for sure where she would be. But I cannot deny that, although it would make me feel better, the bible does not assure me either way. I do know that we are all guilty and deserve hell. And I do hope that God's grace is given to babies and the like, but I don't know that for a fact and I certainly wouldn't sit around arguing something biblical that I wasn't sure of.

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 13, 2002

Often when you ask a question, you have a snide remark lying in wait for the answer. While you claim that you engage in these conversations to understand why we believe this way, you never just listen. You always argue. More often , I will answer what appears to be a question with scripture and expalanation only to have you extract a half of a sentence and say something silly which has little or nothing to do with your question or my answer.

Your friend Ref seems to think otherwise. He and I listened to each other for two days worth of postings.

As I asked before, if I say to my Sunday School class, "I hope you all can be here next Sunday." Am I talking to just the people whom I address or am I talking to every single pewrson in the world

That isn't what Peter said at all. If you said, "I hope you all can be here next Sunday, because I don't want you to perish" do you think it is important that they are there or not?

Gabriel · Dec 13, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
Your friend Ref seems to think otherwise. He and I listened to each other for two days worth of postings.

That isn't what Peter said at all. If you said, "I hope you all can be here next Sunday, because I don't want you to perish" do you think it is important that they are there or not?

And here, your actions back up my prior statement. You are skirting the question rather than answering it because it shows the importance of context. Of course I think it is important whether they are there or not. My question was does all refer to the people I am addressing or does all refer to every person in the world?

Reformationist · Dec 13, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
Your friend Ref seems to think otherwise. He and I listened to each other for two days worth of postings.

With all due respect s0uljah, please stop invoking my name when debating your views with other posters.  Gabrial and I aren't even the same denomination.  Therefore, if our views differ on anything then it doesn't make a difference.  I certainly hope you wouldn't exploit that.  The last two days of conversing with you have been some of my most enjoyable that I've had here on this MB.  I truly felt, and still do feel, as if we were both considering what the other had to say, not just posting to make our own point.  I will say that the last couple of pages in this thread are not indicative of that same spirit.  You are not the only one so please don't think I'm pointing the finger at you.  You and Gabe are both extremely intelligent people.  You are both a little too passionate about your beliefs to make long drawn out disagreements worthwhile.  I know that's the pot calling the kettle black but I hope you see the truth in my words.

God bless you both,

Don

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 13, 2002

Gab-

If you don't want to "debate" but just listen, why did you post this:

The folks I hang with don't mind debate, though. We believe it is very healthy. If you don't know both sides how can you defend yours?

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=501170#post501170

Could it be that you want to debate with others, but when you cant answer, you get mad at me for not "just listening"

TigerDBR · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by Gabriel
Tiger,
It is interesting to me how you speak of love and tolerence and attack me by accusing me of bending the bible to what I believe. You see, I believe this way because the bible is pretty clear in this respect. I was not accusing you of anything. I'm sorry if you fing this so offensive.

You seem to think that I am jumping up and down with joy spouting that all babies go to hell. this is not the case. I have always hoped that God's grace will be extended to those that are aborted, die young or don't have the mental capacity to even hear the word on any level. This is my hope, but it is not specifically addressed in scripture, so I cannot hold it as truth. Nor would I try to convince someone of it to make myself feel better.

... the point is: We don't know. I just didn't like the bold statement and weak biblical evidence proving something you simply CAN"T Prove. And all I did was suggest a much more realistic, sensible, logical answer that seems to fit with God's own heart. I never said it had to be this way, I kept making the point that we won't know.

I don't find anything offensive, only the impression some people try to make where their opinions become fact.  I can hardly take anything on this forum too seriously, or shouldn't anyways.

Gabriel · Dec 14, 2002

I have to apologize for the way I behaved in this thread. I have had to do this before and apparently was not graced with the lesson I was supposed to learn. Don's words stung a bit as I read into them perhaps more than he meant to say. If I was correct in my assumption, Point taken.

Anyway, while reading this morning I came across this verse in 1 Samuel 2:3, "Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; For the Lord is a God of knowledge, And with Him actions are weighed."

Again I was relying on myself and not resting in Him for the revelation of the truth. And in becoming harsh and sarcastic I hurt rather than helped that truth.

Hove a good week-end fellas (and ladies). I think I need to take a break from this place for a while.

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 14, 2002

Have a good break Gabriel!

TigerDBR · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by Gabriel
I have to apologize for the way I behaved in this thread. I have had to do this before and apparently was not graced with the lesson I was supposed to learn. Don's words stung a bit as I read into them perhaps more than he meant to say. If I was correct in my assumption, Point taken.

Anyway, while reading this morning I came across this verse in 1 Samuel 2:3, "Boast no more so very proudly, Do not let arrogance come out of your mouth; For the Lord is a God of knowledge, And with Him actions are weighed."

Again I was relying on myself and not resting in Him for the revelation of the truth. And in becoming harsh and sarcastic I hurt rather than helped that truth.

Hove a good week-end fellas (and ladies). I think I need to take a break from this place for a while.

 

Agreed. Same here. We're arguing over something "only God knows." Instead of saying what will happen to those abortioned babies or lost africans...why don't we get off our lazy american butts and do some spreading of the gospel and prevention of abortion!

And yea, I really don't think I'll stick around this place a lot at all, it's just got way too many things going on and threads become 7 pages too quickly to chime in and not repeat something already said. I simply don't have the time to sift through it all to find the meat.

 

Reformationist · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by Gabriel
I have to apologize for the way I behaved in this thread. I have had to do this before and apparently was not graced with the lesson I was supposed to learn. Don's words stung a bit as I read into them perhaps more than he meant to say. If I was correct in my assumption, Point taken.

Gabe, and s0uljah if this is applicable, please do not be offended.  I respect both of you very much and I think you both truly love God.  All I was saying, and I obviously said it too harshly, is that it pains me to see two intelligent, god-fearing men argue in such a way.  I'm terribly sorry if I offended either of you.  You have both blessed me with so much knowledge about God and my relationship with Him that I just hate to see it get turned into something so ungodly.  I have been in so many of these types of conversations and been solely responsible for it turning into an argument.  I truly believe God allows us to be in such situations so that we can see it when others are trapped in such a way.  Again, please forgive me if I offended either of you.  Gabe, you are truly an inspiration in your passion.  I only meant what I said in the most loving way.

God bless,

Don

Gabriel · Dec 14, 2002

No offense taken, Don. Your words stung because of the truth in them. Sometimes when we see a brother behave the way I was, it is necessary to rebuke. It helps us grow. My passion needs to be tempered with grace.

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 15, 2002

Originally posted by Reformationist
Gabe, and s0uljah if this is applicable, please do not be offended.  I respect both of you very much and I think you both truly love God.  All I was saying, and I obviously said it too harshly, is that it pains me to see two intelligent, god-fearing men argue in such a way.  I'm terribly sorry if I offended either of you.  You have both blessed me with so much knowledge about God and my relationship with Him that I just hate to see it get turned into something so ungodly.  I have been in so many of these types of conversations and been solely responsible for it turning into an argument.  I truly believe God allows us to be in such situations so that we can see it when others are trapped in such a way.  Again, please forgive me if I offended either of you.  Gabe, you are truly an inspiration in your passion.  I only meant what I said in the most loving way.

God bless,

Don

You didnt offend me bro, no worries!

However, being the s0uljah that I am, I have to ask...if both of us are intelligent and God loving, which we are, how do we settle the correct interpretation of Scripture?

I think you know where I am going with this....

Bruno · Dec 15, 2002

By concentrating on your personal relationship with God. Not by arguing and trying to change people's minds about their beliefs.

God speaks to each of us differently. Accept that and be at peace with it. Follow the guide of your Holy Spirit and you will not stumble, or cause someone else to...

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 15, 2002

Originally posted by Bruno
By concentrating on your personal relationship with God. Not by arguing and trying to change people's minds about their beliefs.

God speaks to each of us differently. Accept that and be at peace with it. Follow the guide of your Holy Spirit and you will not stumble, or cause someone else to...

Ok, but should I accept Muslims since God speaks to them differently? Should I try and change their minds about the details of salvation?

The Bible tells us that God is not the author of confusion...

Bruno · Dec 15, 2002

Please, don't ask me for answers on who to accept and who not to. I won't be able to change your mind. If you don't know, ask Jesus. If you trust Him, He will answer you.

 

"For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."   (Luke 11:10)

Chris†opher Paul · Dec 15, 2002

Originally posted by Bruno
Please, don't ask me for answers on who to accept and who not to. I won't be able to change your mind. If you don't know, ask Jesus. If you trust Him, He will answer you.

 

"For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened."   (Luke 11:10)

Ok, I won't ask, but people claim to get answers, but they get contradictory answers, apparently.

Reformationist · Dec 16, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
However, being the s0uljah that I am, I have to ask...if both of us are intelligent and God loving, which we are, how do we settle the correct interpretation of Scripture?

Study and pray that God gives you wisdom.  Unless of course you have a handy prophet on hand that has direct communication with God like the Morman church does.  

I think you know where I am going with this....

Nope.  Should I be scared?

God bless

SavedByGrace3 · Dec 16, 2002

Originally posted by Reformationist
Study and pray that God gives you wisdom.  Unless of course you have a handy prophet on hand ... 

The probability that we are all going to agree on a mental level on all the things we discuss is very low.

What we believe and what we mentally ascent to are two different things. We only believe those things that the Holy Spirit has revealed into our spirits. This is the stuff of our faith. These things we all agree on, because the Holy Spirit does reveal one thing to you and something different to me. Now what we have in our heads is a different matter altogether. We each do our best to read, study, and comprehend the scrirpture to the best of our ability... and with good conscience we share. But in all the years I have studied and taught the Word, I have yet to meet a single person who sees these things the exact same way that I do. I doubt I ever will.

 

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