Question on Salvation

[ChristianPilot]

What about people who don't know about Jesus?  Where will they reside after they die?

 

[new2calvin]

ummm....hell

 

[ChristianPilot]

So you're saying all the aborted babies, all the children in 3rd world countries that never heard of Jesus, all the tribes that a missionary hasn't gotten to yet, they're all going to hell simply because they haven't heard the message?

And please be serious about this, it's a very serious matter.

 

[December]

So you're saying all the aborted babies, all the children in 3rd world countries that never heard of Jesus

I do believe the bible tells us that babies and children will not. I'm terrible with my memory and still growing so for this moment I am unable to pull scripture.

 

[ChristianPilot]

But how can people who've never heard of Jesus be held accountable for it?  Not just children and aborted babies but people who simply have never been exposed.  Or never been exposed enough to believe in it?

 

[Bruno]

God makes sure that every human being has a chance to go to Heaven. He does not discriminate.

 

[ChristianPilot]

How does he do that if they haven't ever heard of Jesus though?

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by ChristianPilot
What about people who don't know about Jesus?  Where will they reside after they die?

 

First, I must ask you this;  Do you believe that if God wants you to be saved, He will be sure that you hear the message before your life on this earth is over?

 

[Warrior FC]

Only those that hear about Jesus and refuse Him are accountable. Those that have never heard the message are not accountable and will be with Him in heaven!

Remember too salvation is very simple...
WHOEVER CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED!

 

[new2calvin]

i kno i will recieve much criticism for my view but i feel i must express....
all the aborted babies all the children and all the people in 3rd world countries...are in hell....
i kno ull fully disagree, but im gonna try and explain why.
for someone to be saved they must have an oportunity to come to faith through the work of the Holy Spirit, but these people dont get the oportunity, therefore; they goto hell.
they are held acountable by original sin. This is the sin we all inherit from adam. his fall and sin was passed down into all subsiquent generations...just look at his first offspring one killed the other...so we have sin...even from conception(Psalm 51:5).
so since all people are sinful from conseption, therefore; if they cant come to the Spirit they goto hell.

God Be Praised

 

[ChristianPilot]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Do you believe that if God wants you to be saved, He will be sure that you hear the message before your life on this earth is over?

Doesn't God want everyone to be saved?

 

Originally posted by Warrior FC

Only those that hear about Jesus and refuse him are accountable.  Those that have never heard the message are not accountable and will be with Him in heaven!

Do you have a biblical reference that you're going by?

I'm not trying to disagree with anyone, but I'm looking for some kind of Biblical guidance before I form an opinion.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Warrior FC
Only those that hear about Jesus and refuse Him are accountable. Those that have never heard the message are not accountable and will be with Him in heaven!

Huh?!!!  Where is that verse?!!  I seemed to have missed it.

There is specific Scripture that deals with this very thing:

Romans 1:18-25
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.  Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Man was created to worship.  It doesn't matter where you go, you will see some form of worship.  Only when we worship our Father is that worship as it should be.  The reason no one has an excuse is because God's invisible attributes, even to the power of the Godhead, is revealed to man through His creation.  It's called general revelation.  Mankind cannot look at the world around him and deny that there is a God.

God bless

 

[Arnold_Philips]

Originally posted by new2calvin
i kno i will recieve much criticism for my view but i feel i must express....
all the aborted babies all the children and all the people in 3rd world countries...are in hell....
i kno ull fully disagree, but im gonna try and explain why.
for someone to be saved they must have an oportunity to come to faith through the work of the Holy Spirit, but these people dont get the oportunity, therefore; they goto hell.
they are held acountable by original sin. This is the sin we all inherit from adam. his fall and sin was passed down into all subsiquent generations...just look at his first offspring one killed the other...so we have sin...even from conception(Psalm 51:5).
so since all people are sinful from conseption, therefore; if they cant come to the Spirit they goto hell.

God Be Praised

Does my mentally retarded aunt go to hell because she doesn't have a concept of forgiveness or even sin?

 

[new2calvin]

did she ever have a chance to hear the Gospel b4 she became mentally retarded??

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I'm afraid she was born that way, n2calvin. I'm also afraid that my telling her about Christ would make hardly make an impression.

 

[Reformationist]

I would just like to mention that it totally pointless to speculate on who specifically could be saved.  Additionally, it was never commanded of us to figure it out.  The only things we can do is trust that the sovereign Will of the Lord is efficacious in each of our lives, to include our salvitic disposition, and love our neighbor as we love ourselves.

An analogy for the commonplace view on people's salvation would be "You're out of the family until you prove you're in."  I would encourage each of you to consider an alternative, "You're in the family until you prove that you're out."

God bless

 

[new2calvin]

Originally posted by Arnold_Philips
I'm afraid she was born that way, n2calvin. I'm also afraid that my telling her about Christ would make any impression.

well, if she was born that way God had a reason for it...
u shouldnt be afraid to tell anyone the Gospel how do u know it wouldnt make an impression if God wants  it to make one it will...it all up to him

 

[ChristianPilot]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Romans 1:18-25
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.  For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.  Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Maybe I'm misinterpteing this (something I do a lot ), but does that mean that everyone is born with a knowledge of Jesus and, that if we repent, we're forgiven?

If so, why is it that some people have such a hard time believing?

I'm not trying to doubt that God isn't doing anything he said he would do by saying this, but I just don't think that everyone on earth who ever has been or ever will be knows about Jesus.

It could be true though.  I've noticed, and I'm sure that more experienced people than me have as well, that there is a similarity between a lot of the religions.  Not only in the commandments and rules they put forth, but also in some of the stories they tell.  Is it possible that we're all worshipping the same God, just with a different name?  I'm not sure.  I don't know why we couldn't do that, and I've just noticed a lot of similarities.

 

[jesusbball23]

Psalm 51 is not talking about original sin, the whole Psalm is a hyperbole (Overstatement for emphasis). It was a terrible sin David committed, and he new it's pain and agony, he went before God about it in humility. Also there are other Psalms that use hyperbole, it's the nature of Psalm Poetry. Psalms are not just straightforward scripture. It's poetry as well.

-About those who have never heard of Christ, It's not for us to judge whether they are saved or not, once we meet them, if we do, we must proclaim the message, and if they reject it, they are gonna be held accountable for that (John 12:48).

-In the end, it's God's choice, not ours. All babies, children are automatically saved, if they never make it to the age of accountability.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by jesusbball23
Psalm 51 is not talking about original sin, the whole Psalm is a hyperbole (Overstatement for emphasis). It was a terrible sin David committed, and he new it's pain and agony, he went before God about it in humility. Also there are other Psalms that use hyperbole, it's the nature of Psalm Poetry. Psalms are not just straightforward scripture. It's poetry as well.

Uh...did someone say something about Ps 51?

-About those who have never heard of Christ, It's not for us to judge whether they are saved or not, once we meet them, if we do, we must proclaim the message, and if they reject it, they are gonna be held accountable for that (John 12:48).

Do you "proclaim the message" to every person you meet if you believe they are not saved?  I personally find it very difficult to be around someone that can't speak to me without everything they say being filled with Scripture.  The thing we should all remember is that it is NEVER our ability to spread the Word that brings someone to Christ:

Romans 2:4
Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

It is God, and God alone, that brings us to a knowledge of Himself:

John 10:3,4
To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice; and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 

-In the end, it's God's choice, not ours. All babies, children are automatically saved, if they never make it to the age of accountability.

As nice as this sounds, where is there Scripture that supports the belief that all children are automatically saved or that there's even an "age of accountability."  Actually, the Bible says that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23).  All people are born separated from God by virtue of orignial sin.  So, even if someone has not sinned "according to the likeness of Adam" he/she is still guilty of transgression.  There is no one that is "automatically saved."  The Word says "there is none righteous, no not one."  It says "not one."  It doesn't say, "No, not one adult."  We are saved by the grace of God alone.  It has nothing to do with our age.

God bless