Question on Jesus

[skipx108]

Hello. I have been brought up to be Hindu, and am open to converting to Christianity. I have something that very much confuses me. If a person accepts the son of God (perhaps even calls him by a different name), and does not even know of Jesus while he was on earth, or even rejects that he's an incarnation of the son of God (and rejects that he died for his sins), is it possible for that person to get to heaven?

Can someone tell me the passage in which Jesus (or anyone) said that they have to believe that he came as the son of God and died for our sins for them to get to heaven?

All this confuses me, because I don't understand if a person in another religion devoutly worships the trinity of God, and rejects Jesus as being the son of God and dying for their sins, why they do not go to heaven.

Any help or specific quotations are greatly appreciated.

Love,

Skip

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by skipx108
If a person accepts the son of God (perhaps even calls him by a different name), and does not even know of Jesus while he was on earth, or even rejects that he's an incarnation of the son of God (and rejects that he died for his sins), is it possible for that person to get to heaven?

skip, before I start let me forewarn you that my answer might seem very intolerant to you.  Christianity is not a religion that is, in and of itself, able to "bend" to include the viewpoint of worshipping God without the intent to do so.

Many people refer to Jesus by many different names.  However, please understand that the Jesus of the Christian Bible is not the god of other religions.  The tenants of Christianity are spelled out very clearly in God's Word.  I pray that God gives you the faith to believe that.  There is some moral truth in many different religions.  However, consider this from a logical perspective.  If any part of a statement is incorrect then the whole statement is incorrect.

You are addressing some huge theological issues that even those who have been Christians for a long time disagree on.  The bottom line to the issue of ignorance of God's Word and Jesus' saving work is simply an issue of Sovereignty and Providence.  If God has regenerated someone's heart He has given them "all things that pertain to life and godliness."  The faith that God has given His children is all inclusive in His Word.  To believe in God, but not the saving work of Jesus Christ, is to lump yourself with the Jews.

The very first step in accepting Jesus is for God to regenerate your heart.  Until this happens a person will not have the desire to serve the Lord.  Once God regenerates a person's heart He gives them the desire to be obedient to Him.  All of this will lead to a studying of His Word, and desire for all aspects of our lives to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.  This would not be something we desired if we didn't even believe He was the incarnate Son of God.

Can someone tell me the passage in which Jesus (or anyone) said that they have to believe that he came as the son of God and died for our sins for them to get to heaven?

First let me say, believing in Christ is not something we accomplish apart from the grace of God.  We were fallen and God chose a people to bring to a knowledge of Himself through repentance and regeneration.  What we say or do isn't what saves us.  It's what Jesus did that saves us.  What we say and do is an issue of obedience, not salvation.  However, there are many on this board who will disagree.  But, nonetheless, faith is from God.  If you have the faith to believe in Him take comfort that He is working in you the desire and ability to do for His good pleasure.  Here are some verses: 

John 1:12,13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:<SUP> </SUP>who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 10:8-10
But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):<SUP> </SUP>that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.<SUP> </SUP>For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

There are many more.&nbsp; In fact, this is a major theme throughout the Bible.

All this confuses me, because I don't understand if a person in another religion devoutly worships the trinity of God, and rejects Jesus as being the son of God and dying for their sins, why they do not go to heaven.

I'm a little confused by what you're saying.&nbsp; Jesus is a&nbsp;part of the&nbsp;Trinity.&nbsp; You can't "devoutly worship the trinity of God" and yet "reject Jesus as being the&nbsp;Son of God and dying for your sins."&nbsp; If that's is what someone believes then God has not given them the faith to believe unto repentence.&nbsp;

God bless

 

[zyzychyn]

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." - John 14:6

"...rejects that he's an incarnation of the son of God (and rejects that he died for his sins)"
Rejecting that Jesus is Lord and that he died for our sins is rejecting Jesus, and Jesus says he is the only way to heaven...

 

[skipx108]

Thank you very much for your replys!

"I'm a little confused by what you're saying.&nbsp; Jesus is a&nbsp;part of the&nbsp;Trinity.&nbsp; You can't "devoutly worship the trinity of God" and yet "reject Jesus as being the&nbsp;Son of God and dying for your sins."&nbsp; If that's is what someone believes then God has not given them the faith to believe unto repentence.&nbsp;"

Many people in fact do accept the son of God, and believe that he is the only way for you to get closer to the father (such as I) without beleiving that Jesus was the son of God. They just interpret sayings more symbolically.

To give you an example of what I meant to say. Say a person never heard of the word Jesus. He never heard of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. He just knew the father, the son, and the holy spirit. He accepted the son into his heart and knew both the father and the holy spirit through the son. He then went on to live his life devoted to God, praising him and doing well to others. But he never heard of the son being on earth and dying for his sins. I would assume that this person would go to heaven. Am I assuming wrongfully?

&nbsp;

Love,

Skip&nbsp;

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by skipx108
Many people in fact do accept the son of God, and believe that he is the only way for you to get closer to the father (such as I) without beleiving that Jesus was the son of God.

I don't think I understand what you mean by "accept the Son of God."&nbsp; Jesus is not the only way for you to get "closer to the Father."&nbsp; He is the only way to come to the Father at all.&nbsp; To say that you believe He is the only way to get closer to the Father but not that He is the Son of God confuses me.&nbsp; Why is it that you believe He is the "only way for you to get closer to the Father?"&nbsp; If it's not because of His unmerited, redemptive work that you could not accomplish yourself what was it that you credit Him with?

To give you an example of what I meant to say. Say a person never heard of the word Jesus. He never heard of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins. He just knew the father, the son, and the holy spirit. He accepted the son into his heart and knew both the father and the holy spirit through the son. He then went on to live his life devoted to God, praising him and doing well to others. But he never heard of the son being on earth and dying for his sins. I would assume that this person would go to heaven. Am I assuming wrongfully?

skip, I could never begin to guess as to the spiritual disposition of one of God's creatures.&nbsp; Not to mention, judging the state of someone's salvation is something we are specifically commanded not to do.&nbsp; Let me clarify something.&nbsp; Praising God and doing well to others are both great things.&nbsp; However, they are not what saves you.&nbsp; The result of being saved by God and given a new nature is to praise Him and do well to others.&nbsp; It is not, however, the means by which we attain that salvation.

God bless

 

[zyzychyn]

I'm a little confused.

How would a person know about the Trinity (which is a very Christian concept) without knowing Jesus came to earth and died for his sins? How would he know of the son to accept if he hadn't heard of Jesus coming to Earth? How would he know of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit unless he had heard of Jesus? How would he accept the Son's sacrifice and ask Him into his heart unless he KNEW of the Son's sacrifice?

 

[MizDoulos]

Originally posted by skipx108


Many people in fact do accept the son of God, and believe that he is the only way for you to get closer to the father (such as I) without beleiving that Jesus was the son of God. They just interpret sayings more symbolically.

Hi, skipx108 ~ You've asked questions regarding a couple of issues, but I'm going to only attempt to address one: the Son of God and salvation . . .

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God. There is no other "son of God."


Titus 3:4-7

But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


John 10:27-30

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.


John 14:6 (quoted earlier)

And Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.


Jesus said that He is the Son of God and He is God. He is the Savior to those the Father has given him and promises eternal life. There are other verses, but these have come to mind. I hope this helps to understand who Jesus is in light of true salvation.

 

[skipx108]

Thank you very much.

I am not here to debate whether Jesus was the son of God or not. For my question, it does not really matter. I will possibly bring this topic up in a "debate" chatroom in the future.

&nbsp;

Hindus teach of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, but call them by different names. It is through the Son (whether we know it or not) that we obtain the Father and the Holy Spirit. Some Hindus believe Jesus to be an incarnation of the son, others do not. That however is not the question I am asking.

My question was can you not know (or reject) of Jesus coming to earth and dying for our sins, and still goto heaven. I believe the moderator answered the question honestly, for that I am greatful. From what he said, I came to the conclusion that no, that can never be the case with a christian point of view. And because of this I will go on to pursue my faith as a Hindu, because I can not move to another faith that does not make sense logically to me. Perhaps after years of devotion and praying God will show me the right path if I am not on it.

&nbsp;

Love,

Skip

 

[MizDoulos]

You're right, skipx108, this is not the forum to debate as the guidelines indicate.

 

[skipx108]

I was talking to my parents on the subject and they disagreed and told me that nothing in the bible goes against our beliefs. Does someone know of a passage that says it is only through believing that Jesus was an incarnation of the son of God (and or he died for our sins) is, and not a passage that just simply says that it is through Jesus that we are saved? I don't know if most people can see my question, and i'm sorry if no one can, but any help is appreciated. Also a passage that simply says something to the sort, "it is through believing in the son of God" would not satisify them because they would argue that the son of God would be there anyways even if Jesus was not on earth and one thought that he was an incarnate of the son of God. So I guess something that said along the lines "you must believe that jesus is the son of god (and or) died for your sins to get to heaven" (not simply, "jesus was the son of God")

Thank you again, and I'm sorry if it appears as if you have already gave me a quote....but for proof that the bible contradicts my beliefs, it is nessasary to have such a narrow question for a narrow answer.

love,

skip

 

[zyzychyn]

So basically your question is this: Can you believe in a son of God, but not believe that it was in the person of Jesus, and still go to heaven?

As said before, Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Me."

This is saying that JESUS is the ONLY way to heaven. It is by JESUS' death and resurrection that our sins are forgiven. Before Jesus came, the ultimate penalty ('the wages of sin are death') had not been paid - that was why the Jewish people had to offer animal sacrifices. Jesus' ultimate sacrifice is the reason we are saved. It would NOT be the same if Jesus had not walked this earth.

"If you will confess with your mouth that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, and if you will believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, then you shall be saved."

The very meaning of Christian is Christ-follower. We follow Jesus Christ. It is through him, and through him ONLY that we are saved.

Is this more what you were asking?

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by skipx108
Thank you again, and I'm sorry if it appears as if you have already gave me a quote....but for proof that the bible contradicts my beliefs, it is nessasary to have such a narrow question for a narrow answer.

love,

skip

skip, am I to understand that you're looking for proof that the Bible contradicts your beliefs?&nbsp; I think that's already apparant.&nbsp; For what purpose?&nbsp; If you're not looking for answers in an effort to understand and consider them as a possibility then all you seem to be doing is looking for reasons to not believe.&nbsp; If that is not the case I pray that you consider the following:

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

God bless

 

[skipx108]

I am simply looking to understand christianity better, and if it makes logical sense to me, I will partake in sunday mass by my house.

I know Jesus said, I am the way, it's only through me.. and stuff like that. That is not answering the question.&nbsp; Because logically speaking, someone who never heard of Jesus, can still be saved through him, if they knew of him as the son, and never knew of him to incarnate on earth. Let me break it down for you.

J = Jesus ; S = son of God ; G = going to heaven ;

J = S

If&nbsp;I&nbsp;accept "J" (into my heart) then "G"

If&nbsp;I accept "S" (into my heart)&nbsp;then "G"

A correct answer to my question is this:

"If you will confess with your mouth that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, and if you will believe in your heart God raised him from the dead, then you shall be saved."

If that following quote was out of the bible, then I am a believer. However, it appears that it is not.

Thank you

Love,

Skip

 

[LouisBooth]

"Because logically speaking, someone who never heard of Jesus, can still be saved through him"

God revieils his plan to all, its only through christ can you be saved, no other way.

 

[skipx108]

"God revieils his plan to all, its only through christ can you be saved, no other way."

Yes, but one can say it is through the son of god that they are saved, since jesus = the son of God, and not know about Jesus. So that still doesn't really satisfy the question. If my question is proving me to be a "rascal" or some sort, just tell me...I don't wish to anger anyone, or turn this into a debate.

Love,

Skip

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

skipx108-

If someone hasn't heard of Jesus, and tries to worship God and live a good life, as best they can, by following the moral law that is written on the soul, then they might be saved.

Jesus is the Way to Heaven, although some people simply don't know it yet.

Please feel free to PM me with any questions you might have!

 

[skipx108]

"If someone hasn't heard of Jesus, and tries to worship God and live a good life, as best they can, by following the moral law that is written on the soul, then they might be saved.

Jesus is the Way to Heaven, although some people simply don't know it yet."

Now THAT is an answer to my question. Thank you very much. I have further questions which some people may get upset over, so I will PM you in the near future. Thank you.

Love,

Skip

 

[Lk2117]

Originally posted by skipx108
"
Jesus is the Way to Heaven, although some people simply don't know it yet."

If someone truly wants to know God, He will send someone. With so many missionaries out the today, my hope is that the name of Jesus and what His name brings is getting into every part of the world and I hope He is getting to you as well.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Lk2117
If someone truly wants to know God, He will send someone. With so many missionaries out the today, my hope is that the name of Jesus and what His name brings is getting into every part of the world and I hope He is getting to you as well.

He did, which is why Skip is here.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Yes, but one can say it is through the son of god that they are saved, since jesus = the son of God, and not know about Jesus. "

NO, they have to know about jesus to know the Son of God.